AG8 - Let's try Sid

[Aggie]

The Byzantines lack saltpeter and get iron from us! We COULD by the world map now, but that will cost us .... world map and 365 gold from the Portuguese. Well...that is not a lot! Sorry that I didn't check this before.

The Byzantine front is attached in the pics... I probably should have roaded that gold hill as well.

TedJackson: remember to wait on turn to let our peace deal end

ROSTER:
-Nad-------------> on deck
-Greebly
-anarres
-Aggie
-TedJackson------> up

 

[anarres]

Well, you would need to move the units in to place this turn anyway (gold hill and neutral grassland tiles) before attacking.

I would also recommend upgrading MW's this turn too, maybe even waiting another turn for them to move to the front. There's nothing worse than attacking with a stack of 10 knights and not being able to take a city...

I would check the civs and NOT buy the WM until there are at least 3 civs that WM can be traded with. No point spending 365 gold when we can't get any of it back.

 

[Aggie]

Ted, I will be strict with the 24 hour 'got it'!

 

[Nad]

Aggie, please don't be too strict with Ted Jackson's "got it", I'm next but have to play 5 vs the World first The earliest I could play is tomorrow (Tuesday), maybe Wednesday.

Annares: sorry about the missed emphasis on production. I think I did set it once but then I've reset it to normal for personal games and forgot to reset to max production for this sg. I don't like it for personal games because it adds a whole new layer of micromanagement every turn, because you have to go through every city that's grown and set it to max food again...I don't mind micromanagement, but there is a fine line between efficiency and tedium. Nevertheless, I will reset to emphasize production for my next turn in the game.

As we're planning war against the Byzantines, maybe we could discuss our aims in this war? Will it be a war to hamstring the Byzantines and slow the tech pace (further) or are we going to try to exterminate them with an aim for a military victory?

 

[Aggie]

Nad, OK. I merely want to avoid that this game comes to a standstill for the 2nd time because of Ted.

Regarding the war: I think we should go for a military victory. We should be able to take the home continent (if we make sure that the Sumerians join us in the war to reduce their forces). Rome and the Inca don't look that strong. They are constantly trailing in the tech race. That leaves Portugal, but we don't need their lands to win by domination. My two cents.

We could also go for our home continent alone and then try a space race. But that looks like a longer game.

 

[Greebley]

I think a military victory is the best option as well. I think we want to grab as much land as we can and think about our attack on Sumeria. That war will have a long front line and be tricky. It may make sense to keep that eventuallity in mind when we pick Byzantine cities to target (assuming we do go for that option that is).

 

[TedJackson]

OK,

I've Got it

Review this evening, play tomorrow.


Ted

 

[TedJackson]

Hi all,

I seem to have a problem with the "Always Renegotiate Deals" setting. Even though it is set to "Off", at the end of turn 1 (560AD) Byzantium comes up with a renewal of Peace offer. As I check the preferences as a matter of course when I start my turns I was sure this was just a glitch and abandoned the game.

I reloaded, rechecked the preferences and ended the turn. Byzantium still offered a renewal of Peace. I again abandoned, reloaded and checked the preferences. I toggled "Always Renegotiate Deals" On then off. I reloaded and ended the turn still to find Byzantium wanting to renew the Peace Treaty.

> Here < is a save at the end of 560AD. Can one of you check this file to see if this behaviour is limited to my setup or is embedded in the game?

Obviously, I was preparing to attack Byzantium expecting to strike the first blow but if we have to break the Peace Treaty in the inter-turn then Byzantium will get first strike and we're not prepared for that


Ted

 

[Nad]

Hi Ted,

When you sign a peace treaty with an AI that involves per turn components (eg another treaty or per-turn gold or resources) then the AI will ALWAYS renegotiate that treaty when it expires, irrespective of the preference setting.

This means that we will have to end the peace treaty before the Byzantines renegotiate it, ie, before the year in which they renegotiate (as soon as there is no bracketed number round the peace treaty in active deals). This will NOT give us a rep hit, because we are renegotiating a treaty that is due for renewal, so we simply cancel peace in the same way we might cancel a rop agreement.

 

[Aggie]

Indeed. We can simply cancel the deal like Nad suggests. There are no turns on this peace treaty anymore. Remember to draw in the Sumerians immediately

EDIT: Also, our army may prevent an attack from the Chinese. Blocking our SoD with it appears to be vital.

 

[TedJackson]

Thanks for the clarification Nad,

I must have come across this situation before but the significance obviously didn't register

As I was hoping for 1 more turn for troop movements before attacking, I'll have to have a bit of a think before I carry on


Ted

 

[Aggie]

We should be fine looking at the save!

I would use the army solely for pillaging and covering the main stack. A wounded army is very risky and endangers the total stack. This army is extremely powerful until cavalry. The Byzantines will look for other troops to attack (like the ones from Sumeria). Once cavalry are around we should have made ourselves a knight or cavalry army.

 

[Greebley]

Can't you also renegotiate peace straight up and then just attack whenever you feel like it? I haven't fully tested but I got the impression from somewhere that this does not have a rep hit (its a pure 'per turn' deal), and this is allowed by the RBCiv rules since you didn't put anything into the peace deal and can therefore break it.

As a side note, never get world map and 6 gold for a peace deal or something paltry if you are playing with the RBCiv rules - make it a straight up deal. If you put anything on his side of the deal, you are committed to 20 turns of peace. Straight up you can declare war whenever you feel like it. This is by strict interpretation of the rule.

 

[TedJackson]

AG08-550AD

Pre-flight checks... OK

Portugal wants WM + 363gp for their WM but we can't sell it on so I decide to wait
Upgrade 10 MW (Goigouen)
Upgrade 10 MW (Niagara Falls)
MA still ranks us weak vs Byzantium
Use a Knight to scout the Gold hill - not much of interest revealed
Move Cats, Spear & Settler to SSW Bangalore
Move remaining Knights (8) to 3SW Bangalore

IBT
NTR

1 - 560AD
Upgrade 3 MW (Niagara Falls)
Troops advance toward Byzantium
Workers work
Cancel Peace Treaty with Byzantium
Buy MA vs Byzantium from Sumeria for Silks
Kill MDI & Pike for no losses

IBT
Byzantium & Sumeria attack each other

2 - 570AD
Bangalore switches to Barracks and hurries for 136gp
Our SoD moves to NE Pune
Workers work
Upgrade 2 MW

IBT
Byzantium & Sumeria scrap it out
Byzantium starts Smith's

3 - 580AD
Assault on Pune:
We kill 4 Pike, 1 Spear, 2 Knights & 2 Longbows for no losses promoting 3 Knights to elite
Raze Pune
General plan is to fish for leaders then start capturing cities once we have armies to hold them

IBT
Byzantium & Sumeria scrap

4 - 590AD
Kill 11 Pike & 2 Knights for the loss of 1 Knight promoting 1 Knight to elite
SoD moves East - trap Byzantine forces threatening Bangalore
Spot 2 Byzantine Dromons SE of New Salamanca
Upgrade MW & Spear

IBT
Byzantium & Sumeria scrap on
Byzantine SoD threatening Bangalore retreats ???

5 - 600AD
Kill 9 Pike & 2 Spears for no losses promoting 1 Knight to elite
Move wounded units to Bangalore
Fresh Knights arrive to support Army
Portugal & Byzantium have Metallurgy - immediate steal is over 1200gp

Sorry but I'll have to stop here as I'm away tomorrow & need to prepare

Chokepoint

Notes
The SoD (3 SW Bangalore) can either head out on a pillaging mission or attack the Byzantine city to the South.

Watch out for the Dromons heading up our East Coast (3 South of New Salamanca, 2 SE of Neodakheat). I have 3 Knights in the area and there are 2 Spears in Kahnawake ready for upgrading next turn.

We're still rated weak vs Byzantium and I only managed to destroy 30 or so units. No joy with Leaders so far but the next player may have better luck.

There are 2 Pikes & 2 Spears fortified in Oiogouen still with full movement. I was going to upgrade them in Bombay but the next player can do as he wishes.

The save is > here <


Ted

 

[Aggie]

TedJackson, thanks for biting the bullet We don't have to fear the stacks that are visible in that picture. Only pikes, longbows and MDI's. Your plan (fishing for leaders first) sounds very wise!

ROSTER:
-Nad---------> up
-Greebley------> on deck
-anarres
-Aggie
-TedJackson

 

[Greebley]

Psst... Aggie ... Greebley has an extra e in it

 

[Aggie]

I copy-pasted the roster and forgot to change it.

 

[microbe]

@Greebley: next time you just call him Aggi.

 

[Nad]

I will play either tonight or tomorrow.

The way I see it: we pick off stragglers at the moment, leader-fishing as Ted suggests...if we can get a knight army (or preferably 2 knight armies and the Pentagon) then conquering cities becomes a lot easier. I might try to pick off one or two cities closest to us to weaken the Byzantines somewhat, and maybe do some heavy pillaging. On the whole, however, the emphasis is on letting Byzantium and Sumeria drain each others resources. If they sign peace we drag Sumeria back in immediately.

I also think it might be worth signing one civ from the other continent into the war. Then, hopefully, the Byzantines will sign someone from the other continent in as well, either against us or Sumeria or our third partner, which ensures that the other continent is also dragged into messy wars. Anything that slows the tech pace and kills AI units is to our advantage.

What do you guys think? And if we sign in another ally who should it be? I would think Portugal, the most powerful civ.

 

[Aggie]

I totally agree with the strategy! I also think that Portugal is the best civ to ally with. They have a beachead on our continent (or so I think) and may be our best bet when it comes to making it the Byzantines difficult.