AG8 - Let's try Sid

I think we all can agree that 20 is not enough. I also agree that we should be prepared for a counterattack and that the attacking force may be depleted when we make peace. But a gain of territory, cheaper techs and a crippled neighbour make that very worthwhile. We indeed need defense as well. anarres, your set up is certainly one we can base our build up on.

Besides the army build up I agree with Nad that we should buy a number of techs before we sell around Literature (if we get it at first). But I highly doubt if we can get Republic for it... We'll see.
 
Is there any formula we can use to calculate if that deal would be possible? Is there any tool or guide which will tell us if literature @ 1st ~= republic @ 5th on Sid? Is it possible to calculate from the tech costs and the monopoly multiplier, assuming that at least one of the AIs has no beakers invested in literature?
 
Republic is really expensive. Its got the additional 1.5 multiplier or whatever it is for being a government tech and can essentially be treated as a middle age tech in terms of price. My guess is that Lit at first would be (a lot?) less than half of republic at last, but that is totally a gues.

Remember also that Lit is one of the cheapest high teir techs

I too was wondering if we could calculate the worth ahead of time. Never tried it before.

I think getting currency and/or construction is a better route. Lit is worth less than construction, but if it is at first and constrcuction well known, we may be able to do something.

So my thought is that republic is outside our league and trading for currency, constrcution, CoL, and Phil are the trades that most make sense. I think Construction is most pricey, followed by currency, CoL, then Phil, so that would be the order would try to trade them. I would need gpt left over to get them though.

I will definitely MM to maximize the use of our shields - as well as switching around who works what to get the numbers more even.

A catapult or two would be nice, though we are probably too pressed for time to make many. I will consider it for towns that would not get barracks quickly. Trimmin a HP off an attacker really strengthens spears behind wallls (which I will also build). Cats also work nicely for breaking up large attacking groups as the AI will send some units out to heal which is great for SOD's it has saved many a town in my AW games.

Mounted Warriors will be the primary focus in the larger cities of course.
 
The base cost of Literature in the editor is 10. Selling it at 2nd civ price (not 1st) would be a relative price of about 10 * (1 - 1/(8 * 1.75)) * 2 = 18.6.

Republic is 28 base cost, and at 5th civ would devalue to a relative price of right about 18, same as Literature. But you have to apply the government trade multiplier (which is something like 1.5) and also the Sid trading factor of about 20%, coming out to somewhere around 32 relative total cost.

In short, Literature at monopoly won't buy Republic at 5th-civ. It will get you somewhere north of halfway there.
 
Preturn: Hmm... It may be impossible to buy the techs needed for anything. We are at 90% cash and pulling in 2 gpt. Only change is to start Caughnawaga on walls as Barracks will take 19 turns. Very minor MMing. I send some chariots to India to get a more up to date picture of where roads are so we can spot places where India can attack back effectively. We may want to do a bit of this closer to attack as well

IBT:

530 BC: MMing of cities (will do each turn).

IBT: Get punted from Indian territory

510 BC: Ok we have lit but no gpt to trade with. I don't think I have much chance on Currency. I would have to buy it at second it could well cost me too much. So...
India: Lit for CoL, Myst, 22 gold (the price varied - for example from By we would have had to pay 83 - they may have started in on it)
Sumeria: Lit+ 105 gold for Math (glad I didn't try to go for currency at second - It was probably too much)
Portugal: Lit + 30 gold for Philosophy
Byzantine: Lit + 94 golf for Iron Working.

So Lit plus some gold netted us 5 techs though not the really good ones. We will have to wait for our gpt back to get those. I start a 50 turn run on republic at min. Not everyone has republic yet BTW. With us spending all our resources on war it will probably be 50 turns before we could buy it anyway - especially if we want currency and construction.

Some good news: We have two iron - one within our capitols workable land.
Less good: India has iron hooked and is in fact the only civ with iron.

A few wayward cities start Catapults.

IBT: More less good news: Indians start Sun Tzu (+ iron = pikes and MDI). Punted from India again.

490 BC:

IBT: Byzantines start Sun Tzu

470 BC: Our capitol grows to size 8 which means we need to raise Lux to 20% which puts us at -1 gpt

IBT: Punted from Indian territory again - I probably have investigated all I can for now. I wasn't trying to penetrate deep. I might try single units to get deaper. Not sure

450 BC: Since the capitol just finished building a mounted warrior, I MM it to 15 shields to build them every 2 turns.

IBT: Ummm... The Portuguese are building the knights templar. India will have knights long before we have 30 MW. Sigh

430 BC:

IBT:

410 BC:

IBT: Incans complete Sun Tzu. I am glad the Indians didn't get it. Great Library is completed in Lisbon.

390 BC: Oh Cool an Incan boat. They haven't started copernicus or Leo :D I check out our finances. I read somewhere about a "details" of diplomacy. I find it on the F4 screen and it is very cool. Choose details and then you can see all your active deals by clicking on pictures. The result is that we have 2 turns left and we will get back all 55 of our gpt back. I will proceed to there and then we can discuss as it will be the next players turn.

IBT:

370 BC: I started going heavier on the Cats. If we are going to fight MDI or Knights we will need them more. Note that I see no reason to try to switch back to peaceful builds at this point. We will just get less in the way of cities. I think we can at least remove some cultural pressure on our current ones if nothing else. The only thing I would consider really important is Markets and we don't have currency. BTW our unit costs is now 1 gold.

IBT:

350 BC:

Notes:
Our current forces are:
27 workers and 1 slave
20 warrior which seem to be ALL regular or conscript
3 spearmen
3 Chariot
1 Galley
20 Mounted
1 Curragh.

We are now pulling in 58 gpt which is enough to buy currency. We have an extra Iron and Incense to trade, but that destroys our rep the instant we declare on India (we need to wait for Navigation or Magnetism (and complete a harbor))
Most of our frontline cities have walls. 2 are still building them and the last is building the FP.
We have 19 turns on the FP
Indias iron is near Madras which is non-trivial to reach.

Now that we have cash it might be useful to see what the cities we plan to hit are guarded by. Also the NW cities seem to be not connected yet and thus only have spears.

AG8_BC350.JPG


The Save
 
No, it won't be easy. But getting Literature @1st (good for us that this is still Largely ignored), seeing that many civs don't have iron (and we 2). That's very good :) Also, the AI is not THAT far ahead in tech.

I guess it's best to trade for Currency after our war with India. We then also can trade our resources and luxuries to the world. Razing and replacing Ganges and Hyderabad would help us to get a trade route with Sumeria that doesn't go through India.

ROSTER:
-Nad
-Greebly
-anarres----------> up
-Jack Merchant---> on deck
-TedJackson
-Aggie
 
I am really unsure we want to be spending our shields on catapults. :hmm:

They are useful on defense, but with fast attackers how on earth will they help us? I'd much rather have 2 more MW's for every 3 cats, I'd like to hear what others think.

Edit: Khanawake is building walls - is there a reason for this? It doesn't seem likely to get attacked...

Your turns look great Nad, but obviously our styles vary and that difference is what undoubtedly what generates discussion. I just didn't want you to get the impression I only see bad - I see difference in perfection. ;)
 
Originally posted by anarres
I am really unsure we want to be spending our shields on catapults. :hmm:

They are useful on defense, but with fast attackers how on earth will they help us? I'd much rather have 2 more MW's for every 3 cats, I'd like to hear what others think.

Edit: Khanawake is building walls - is there a reason for this? It doesn't seem likely to get attacked...

Your turns look great Nad, but obviously our styles vary and that difference is what undoubtedly what generates discussion. I just didn't want you to get the impression I only see bad - I see difference in perfection. ;)
Click to expand...

Well you need to tune up your perfection, mate, cos you're looking at Greebley's turns! :p :D
 
If you don't like catapults because of their slowness, can't you say the same about spears? I think that catapults are very useful in our bordertowns, to soften a counterattack. It's choosing between focussing largely on attack and choosing the be ready for the first counterstrike as well. To be honest I don't think that a small number of catapults and spears will help us that much. We'd need far more artillery power to be able to counter a Sid SoD. But we haven't got the time to do both it seems.

I agree that the walls don't seem needed in Khanawake.
 
Actually, one thing we need to check: did India build the Colossus? I know they built Artemis, which is religious, but if they've also built a commercial wonder they will already have had their GA. Can anyone check F7 on the save?
 
I just thought of another reason we have to take India now: The ToA will give us many many flips if we leave it to run it's course. The sooner we take that city the better (and also the less need for us to have temples).

Which Indian city is ToA in? That should be as early a target as possible, if possible at all. If not we need to make it one if we can...

Nad - and stupid mistakes I make atm can be blamed on a recent head injury. ;)
 
Given the position of Delhi and the fact it has built two wonders, I'll bet Bombay is the cattle city southeast of Chittagong with the city square visible but the name hidden in the fog.
 
Ya, the catapults are not for our attack force but to help with defense. I would much rather have a one or tow strong stacks attacking when we are ready than trying to defend our entire border.

I also didn't complete any on my 10 turns because they are being made for the most part in towns without barracks that have 1 or 2 shields.

You do have a point oin the walls in the northern towns. If we take out that one Indian town within our borders, then we don't need them.

Feel free to chance builds to suit your style. I think we need to do something about defence as well as offense though. It seems to me more efficient to let some cats and spears take care of the defense of some border towns than trying to use MW for defense or not defending at all. At least that was my thinking.
 
None yet, but I am playing over the next few hours...
 
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