AG8 - Let's try Sid

Ted: I agree with your figures there. But that does assume we build a settler straight after the warriors, but I'm not committed on that point yet....if we meet any early neighbours, in the first 15-20 turns, then that will probably be the best tactic. Otherwise I may choose to build a granary first (possibly a worker before, as suggested).

We're only shield poor at the opening few sizes. If we move to northeast of the wheat we will have at least 3 bgs to play with. With 4 turn growth even without a granary after the wheat is irrigated, we will be up to larger sizes in no time at all :). Therefore I am inclined to invest the rich food start in the second worker early, who can help with the mining of the bgs to bring us up to scratch shield-wise as well. :)

I haven't made up my mind though, and a lot will depend on the opening few turns' exploration. Keep the ideas coming, the more choices we all have the better! :thumbsup:

EDIT: also Ted, I see you only account for one warrior being trained, whereas I would consider training 3, all to explore, before beginning the expansion plan.
 
Sorry Nad,

I was interrupted mid-post and lost the plot a bit when I came back :D

Adding in a Worker would delay the first Settler by 4 turns at most, less if we start him on a forest chop immediately (we should get the benefit this way round).

A granary on the other hand is 60 shields and I don't know if we'll get the ROI at this level.

In summary, Warrior then Worker (if no enemies in sight) gets my vote but I don't think a Granary is a good investment.

On the Warrior front it will depend on who we meet and how quickly. If we see no signs of nearby AI then I'd probably go Warrior, Worker, Settler (chop assisted) then Warrior.


Ted
 
I would base the settler vs granary on when we see the AI. There is an additional advantage of the second worker which is that it gives longer to explore before deciding.

So maybe warrior, warrior, worker, granary/settler with the choice between granary and settler being based on whether you have seen another AI. We are building pop fast enough that the worker will not cost us much and will help the shield poor problem as well, so it is a good place for that strategy. I have used it when I have a bonus and it worked pretty well for me.

Ya, I was just confused on my pottery comment and not thinking about starting techs.
 
Simple: the AI start with 3 settlers and additional settlers for them require only 40% of the food and shield cost. That means the countryside will fill up mighty fast if they're close. We might not even have a spot to put a settler by the time the granary is finished.
 
I played my turn before Greebley's comment, but that's exactly what I did! :goodjob:

AG8, Let's Try Sid, Inherited Turn 4000BC

Replicate the worker move, settler sw.

Turn 1, 3950BC: settler moves to northeast of the wheat, worker moves to bg

Turn 2, 3900BC: Salamanca founded, revealing two more bgs to the west :). Worker moves to wheat.

Writing started at min science.

Turn 3, 3850BC: worker begins irrigation of wheat.

Turn 7, 3650BC: Salamanca is size 2 and lux goes to 20%. Worker roads wheat.

Turn 9, 3550BC: first warrior has completed and a second began. We start exploration southwards.

Turn 10, 3500BC: worker moves to bg. Science and lux can go to 10%.

Turn 11, 3450BC: Salamanca is now size 3, 30% lux, as worker begins mine. Warrior sees floodplains to south.

Turn 12, 3400BC: we have expanded borders.

Turn 13, 3350BC: the second warrior has completed and is headed west. A worker is being trained.

Turn 14, 3300BC: a goody hut is seen on a mountain to the west.

Turn 15, 3250BC: Size 4 Salamanca requires 40% lux. A cattle is seen close to Salamanca to the northwest, and will probably be location of next city.

Turn 16, 3200BC: the worker is ready and we start settler. The new woker moves to a bg. There is a second bg on a river but it would require crossing the river and waste a worker turn, so for now we will improve bgs off the river rather than waste a worker turn.

Lux to 30%

Turn 17, 3150BC: first worker starts roading its mined bg, second worker starts mining fresh bg. Goody hut to the west is left alone. In the south we find more rivers and fertile grasslands.

Turn 19, 3050BC: Salamanca is size 4 again, 40% lux. In the north we come to a coastline and see a game forest.

I am going to slow growth by a turn to get settler out a turn sooner and avoid shield wastage.

Turn 20, 3000BC: The first worker has completed road. As I envisage a granary after the settler, worker moves to forest to help with a chop. Lux to 30%.

Turn 21, 2950BC: a great historian reports we are last in the happiness stakes. Our opponents are revealed as Inca, Rome, Persia, Sumeria, India, Portugal and Byzantium.

Worker starts forest chop.

Turn 22, 2900BC: completed settler heads for a spot to the west with no overlap and with cattle in immediate range. This will also lead to a safe goody hut pop. A granary is started.

More goody huts are visible but all are avoided.

We take a turn off the wheat for more shields, growth still in 2. Lux to 10%.

Turn 23, 2850BC: second worker's mine is complete, starts road.

Grey border is seen to the west, presumably India.

Turn 24, 2800BC: Salamanca is back to size 3 and lux is 30%.

Turn 25, 2750BC: Forest chop has completed and adds to the shields in the box.

We move next to the grey border but can't contact until next turn.

Niagra Falls is founded, the safe hut pop yields maps only. Starts warrior...as soon as irrigation can be brought from Salamanca, which requires a grass to be irrigated and a forest to be chopped before reaching the cattle, we will have another high growth city, which is why I went for this site.

I have left a worker active...he can improve the grass he's on (the forest has just been chopped) or he can move across the river to a bg. Next player's decision.

Salamanca can be switched to a settler in 1, no waste at all, but I would be inclined to go for the granary to get a fully operational settler farm up and running.

I tried to compromise between the heavy exploration/development of capital approach that I favoured and Ted's quick settling approach. Overall it's worked out okay...we have some idea of our nearby terrain, we have our second city up, we have a number of tiles improved in the capital and a second worker. Once Salamanca's granary completes and a couple more bgs are mined we'll have a 4 turn ad infinitum settler factory.


AG8Sid2750BCMap.jpg


The Save
 
Good start Nad :thumbsup:

Looks as if there are some good spots to settle in the South.


Ted
 
Preturn: things look good I am going with the granary.

IBT: The border expands.

2710 BC: We meet India who is up in tech; he doesn't know writing or wheel. The town is Madras

IBT:

2670 BC: I debate rushing the Granary. It saves a few turns at the cost of size. I decide to not rush.as I want to keep shields up for fast setterls.

IBT:

2630 BC: Not much north of us.

IBT:
The Colossus is completed by the Byzantine.

2590 BC:

IBT:
Niagra Falls: Warrior->Warrior

2550 BC: We get the Granary next turn with growth the turn after.
Warrior at Niagra heads for Capitol.

IBT: We are asked to leave indian lands.
Salamanca: Granary->Settler.

2510 BC: So far no Indian settlers so our choice of granary is looking good. That may change of couse, but we will doing a settler every 4 so we will grab some lands.

IBT: Spot a boat for a brief second.

2470 BC: Warrior goes to investigate but it is an indian boat. Lux to 40% - actually 50% for Niagra (who needs a worker badly

IBT: We are punted from Indian territory.
Sumeria complete the pyramids

2430 BC: Some OK land to the north. We should be able to get some of it.

IBT:

2390 BC: Indian town settled nearer to us but we still have some room to the south. I will send the settler that way to see what we can get. Settler next turn.

IBT:
Salamanca: Settler->Settler
Niagra Falls: Warrior->Worker

2350 BC: Lux back down to 20%

IBT:

2310 BC: Lux to 30% as we grow. Our 4 turn for the setttler seem to be size 4, 5, 5, 6.

IBT:

2270 BC: Bad luck we are going to miss that wheat to the S by a turn. Will settle farther North I expect.

IBT: They don't settle

2230 BC: Well I settle Grand River where we are even though it is between 2 rivers. It is still good land I think it will help to claim it rather than letting india do that. India now has the wheel and only lacks writing of the techs we can learn. We have 14 turns left and so probably won't get it first. Lux to 40%

IBT: Indian settler heads back.for which I am glad. They may still get the wheat though we were 3 away when I had to settle or forfeit the spot.
Salamanca: Settler->Settler
Niagra Falls: Worker->Settler


2190 BC: Lux 20% Settler heads Eastish

2150 BC: Lux to 30%

2110 BC: The Indian settler heads away further. This is good, I thought he would settle 3 away and apply cultural pressure on us.

IBT: He settles and dues grab the wheat. with expansion. We only slightly overlap.

2070 BC: Still can't afford Ceremonial Burial at 189 gold and 7 gpt. Not that I would get it until we have further contacts. Also india must have had good lands to the South. They have 6% of the world area compared to our 1% but haven't been massively crowding us.

IBT: Complete road to Incense.
Salamanca: Settler->Settler
Grand River: Warrior->Warrior
2030 BC: I build Allegheny I send the settler N even though there appears to be no competition for the furs up there. I don't trust it to remain long (we may still lose the race).

IBT:

1990 BC: Move settler N.

IBT

1950 BC: Move settler N.

Notes:
I recommend the next player play 15 turns to get us to 1500. The turn numbers work out better.

I think the Granary was the correct choice in this situation. We will get more lands this way I think.

Tech trading with one AI seemed not worth it even if possible. We actually have a (possibly small) chance of getting writing first - if we kick in some gpt we may be able to afford ceremonial burial :rolleyes:

I tried to be very careful with my play to keep everything running smoothly.

My settling was as much to grab land as it was to settle in good spots. If we want we can move towns later, though I think our spots so far aren't bad.

The settler to the North is heading for the hill on the river to get the furs. I am fairly sure it will be grabbed soon by a AI with a boat if we don't settle it now.

I think we want a coastal city to thw west to grab all those BGs. That might be the best spot for the next settler

Here is a map:

AG8_BC1950.JPG


The Save
 
Not settling on rivers would seem a waste of your powerful trait I think ;)
 
Agreed about the rivers. In fact we should discuss whether to move Grand River. It was forced to settle to grab the land or lose it and is in a very stupid spot in terms of being on a river.

Moving it forward however while possible overlaps too much with India I think. I think we would have to move it back (NE?) if we moved it.

I am more inclined to try to grab everything we can now and then worry about it after.

[Edit: Allegheny and the planned fur town are on rivers. Grabbing the area N of us might be worthwhile as that would grow fast and might help us settle]
 
Well, I agree that we should avoid rivers if we can. So I agree that we want to relocate Gran River at some point. For the rest I think things are looking very good. We have quite a lot of cities and also land to grab east of us. Good call to first settle in the west :)
 
I can play this tomorrow (i.e. today, after sleep - it is past 1am now)...

I am amazed to see that I was gone for just over a day and it's my turn already! :eek:
 
Can someone post a link to the RB exploit list please? It's probably best to read it sooner than later. :)
 
No ship chaining, no buying workers before 1000BC, no agressive settling near borders...

I am suprised that buying workers is considered a true exploit: "Exploitative Tactics fall outside the context of the game, even though loopholes in the rules allow them to occur within the game."

I will need to check how many workers the AI starts with on Sid, but I guess we will be able to buy 1 or 2 before we get them down to 2 workers...
 
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