AG8 - Let's try Sid

[Greebley]

The problem with the RBCiv rule set is that in places it is out of date and in places I feel it is too severe and counts things as exploits that do not seem exploitive to me. Most of it is good though.

The rule about 1000 BC does have some merit for levels below demi-god. My personal opinion is that at Demigod and above it is impossible to have a substantial impact on the AI by buying workers unless you are playing the older versions where workers were almost free.

I also disagree that abandoning a city with resistors is an exploit. We discussed this one in AG1 and decided in that game that the rule was we could not settle and abandon [edit: a single city] in the same turn. I am guessing that is how we are playing. You can also rule that you can't abandon a city and then resettle deeper into enemy territory.

 

[Aggie]

Greebly, I was a bit lazy with defining the ruleset for this SG. Sorry for that. I also have a lot to do in this weekend, so my contributions are not that great. I indeed like us to follow the rule that we are not allowed to settle and abandon the same city in one turn.

 

[anarres]

1950BC: Looks good, but I am a little disappointed that our settler factory will have 29 shields next turn. I am sure this is an unfortunate consequence of the shields, but maybe we can get a warrior and a settler every 4 turns.

The only thing I change is setting emphasise production on all governors - this is essential Sid level gameplay! All this does is to set the new citizen at expansion to a high shield tile, which will get added to the production box for the expansion turn.

All players should set this to be the default governor setting for new cities, it can do no harm and will increase production in lots of cities.

1910BC: nada, I just move the units in the directions they were headed.


1870BC: Salamance builds settler -> settler. Damn, at size 4 Salamanca has 7 shields, 9 after expansion. Not enough for a warrior + settler 4 turn combo. Now I see it I remember that you need a cow or an iron tile to do that in despotism. Since we don't need all the shields we get in 4 turns I use a raoded river tile instead of a mined BG.

The settler heads N towards the Fur.

I keep lux at 30% this turn as otherwise we need a specialist in Niagra Falls. This way it will build a settler a turn faster in 3 turns time.

Instead of going straight for the furs I settle the northern warrior on a coastal river tile with a fish. Cattaraugus gives us 2 gpt extra now, and is a great spot. The escorting warrior heads NE, it will scout the furs for us.


1830BC: Grand River builds warrior -> warrior. Allegheny builds warrior -> worker (it desperately needs tiles with 2 food...). I send the Allegheny warrior S to scout.


1790BC: I buy a worker from India for 114 gold. According to the RBCiv "exploit" list we can't take them down below 2 workers, but since they start with more than 2 then we are OK.

IT: India asks us to leave their territory.


1750BC: Niagra Falls builds settler -> warrior. I send the setter W with the warrior from Niagra Falls.

IT: India is building Temple of Artimis, I really hope they don't get it or we are ****ed!


1725BC: Salamanca builds settler -> settler. The settler heads N to a 1st ring river site.

Lux to 20%.

1 turn to Writing and India doesn't have it yet, I cross my fingers...


1700BC: We get writing and India doesn't have it. [coool]

I notice that by using all the BG at size 4 we can keep lux at 20% at size 5 by using the roaded river tiles.

Checking the tech screen it will take 29 turns at 80% Science to get Philosophy, at -1 gpt. India will only give us the following deals:

Writing for Ceremonial Burial and 80 gold
Writing and 18 gold for WC or BW
Writing and 170 gold for Masonry
Writing and 179 gold and 1gpt for the Wheel

I desperately want to buy the Wheel, but it would mean not going max on Philosophy...

I am gonna pause the game here to see what people think - should we buy the Wheel and research Phil at sub-max, or buy the Wheel and research something else (CoL?), or trade for another tech and go max on Phil?

I've never made Phil first on Sid, and it is likely (in practice) to take over 20 turns to get. Is it worth the gamble?

 

[Aggie]

Personally I think that we have more chances getting Literature at first than Pilosophy... I think that the Wheel is essential for us, being Iroquois.

 

[anarres]

So you would say get Wheel and go Lit at sub-max?

If we get the Wheel we have to go sub-max research, so that is what I wanted to check with people.

 

[Aggie]

Sounds OK to me. Let's hear what others have to say

 

[microbe]

Do you have a GL prebuild? I suggest not getting Lit until 1 turn before it completes to avoid AI tribute demand. (I assume you want to get GL)

 

[Aggie]

No, getting Literature first is not about building the Great Library. It's about getting a tech to be able to trade with others. At Sid level the AI is researching in an absurd speed. Literature is often ignored imho. Philosophy is more popular, I wouldn't risk a run for the free tech. If it fails Literature will probably also not be ours at first.

But @all: is it an absurd idea to prebuild TGL (honestly I do think so...)?

 

[anarres]

We have no pre-build, but Lit is the way to get tech trades.

There is no city anywhere close to enough shields to get TGL in the next 50 turns apart from Salamanca, which is our 4 turn settler factory and also has nothing to pre-build. So IMO the TGL is not a viable option...

 

[Nad]

I would also go for lit, maybe even at min science, depending how long max research would take...if there's only 5-10 turns difference over the whole course then I'd go at min and save up some gold for possible brokering.

BTW, I still don;t know, what sort of map is this? Continents or pangaea? If it's continents then we might want to get a curragh going soonish, even though we're not seafaring, just in case there are any visible coasts (as soon as we get a coastal city, of course).

 

[Aggie]

It's a continents map, at least that's what I asked for...

 

[Greebley]

Yeah, lit is the best tech run in the ancient age for higher difficulties It gets the 2/3 multiplier being an optional tech and doesn't have a government associated with it. The faster the AI's research the more the 2/3 multiplier matters.

From Axelman's post:

4-turn rate

Bronze working 268
Warrior Code 198
Map Making 108
Monarchy 90
Writing 90
Republic 86
The Wheel 86
Iron Working 86
Masonry 75
Construction 75
Horseback Riding 70
Mysticism 70
Code of Laws 66
Currency 66
Mathematics 66
Ceremonial Burial 66
Pottery 66
Alphabet 64
Philosophy 64
Polytheism 64
Literature 48

 

[anarres]

1700BC (cont): Buy the Wheel from India for 179 gold, 1 gpt and Writing. Cool, we have 2 Horses!

ATM Lit is 49 turns at 80% so I decide to go min on it instead.


1675BC: Allegheny builds worker -> Barracks. I have to build that since I am going to chop a forrest to get a 2 food tile and it would waste 9 shields otherwise. I guess it's not too soon to build a few chariots...

Found Oil Springs in the 1st ring on a river.


1650BC: Found our Furs city, Tonawanda. Note that the furs isn't in the 9 because I want the river more. The extra food will more than pay for the worker required for the colony, and if it had the fur it wouldn't get a single 2 food tile.

Found Mauch Chunk in the west - it pops a hut in it's 9 and gives us a warrior.

Salamanca is size 6 so I set lux to 30%, we really need to get a warrior in our capital, but atm exploring seems more important with the warriors we have.

IT: Ghandi forces us out his territory - this is good as it pushes our warrior in the right direction by a tile.


1625BC: Salamanca builds settler -> settler. I send it E to another 1st ring river site.

Niagra Falls builds warrior -> warrior.

Lux to 20%. Warriors are mostly exploring, a few are hanging around for token defense/MP.

IT: Portugal build the Oracle. India starts/switches to Temple of Artimis (deja vu? )


1600BC: nada, just the usual exploring and mm.


1575BC: Grand River builds warrior -> settler (forest will be chopped in 4 turns). Cattaraugus builds warrior -> worker.


1550BC: Niagra Falls builds warrior -> settler. Oil Springs builds warrior -> warrior.

I get a warrior to Salamanca, it is size 6 now but we can stay at 20% lux.

Found St. Regis, our last 1st ring city (on a river). It is in the middle of forrest and hills, we need to chop some down soon!

Wow! We're 7th in productivity already!

IT: We get thrown out by India again, again in the correct direction.


1525BC: Salamanca builds settler -> settler. Now the warrior is there we can drop lux to 10%.

I decide to send it W since I can see an Indian settler over there. The E also needs settling but there are no Indian settlers in sight over there.

1500BC: I see a border!!!

Looks like getting to it may be a serious problem.

Lux to 20% for Salamanca.

We seem to be doing pretty good for Sid. Having India next to us is a real help as they are unlikely to pick on us for no reason.

The biggest concern I have atm is getting curraghs out there, I was just too busy with other stuff to prioritise it.

 

[anarres]

SidSG 1500BC

 

[Aggie]

It's indeed looking good I agree that we need to get a curragh.

ROSTER:
-Nad
-Greebly
-anarres---------> just played
-Jack Merchant--> up
-TedJackson------> on deck
-Aggie

 

[jack merchant]

Got it. Much though I doubt my Sid skills, I ought to be able to get a curragh going in my turns .

 

[TedJackson]

Good expansion so far


Ted

 

[Aggie]

Yes, we appear to be getting enough cities to build a FP. That's an achievement. But the starting spot is very good

 

[jack merchant]

So, my first turn on Sid. We look to be in great shape as far as the landgrab is concerned, but without more contacts, we're toast.

Mauch Chunk seems like the best place to get the curragh going; I'll speed it along by chopping the game forest there.

IT A curragh pops into view but sadly, it is Indian. Gandhi asks us to leave, too.

1475 BC (1) Am still going to try and get through their lands though. I'm totally confused about where the settler should go.

IT Which is no good as the Indians throw us out. This won't work.

1450 BC (2) I disband the exploring warrior since it's not going to accomplish anything but piss off the Indians at this point.
Tonawanda up north riots . Hire a scientist there and set science to 0%. Oil springs warrior -worker. I decide to send the settler pair west to the peninsula as there's no point in placing it South where it'll be an inevitable flip to the Indians.

1425 BC (3) Salamanca settler - settler (due in 4 with the food remaining in the box). Swap Mauch Chunk from warrior to worker after all since there are enough likely MPs in the area.
Only size-2 Allegheny requires a lux tax so I get a taxman there and set luxes to 0% instead. There's a warrior in the area which can provide MP too.

Settler from Salamanca will go NE to the prime spot on the river next to the gold mountain. The settler from Niagara falls can get the coastal spot to its North (Salamanca's West) instead.

IT Indians found on the coast South of Mauch Chunk which gets added to the flip risk category.

1400 BC (4) Mauch Chunk worker - curragh.

IT Portuguese complete SoZ

1375 BC (5) Tonawanda worker - warrior. Luxes to 10% as Salamanca grows, science to 10% too.

1350 BC (6) Niagara Falls settler - worker. Cattaraugus worker - curragh (to cycle East along the continent). St. Regis worker - granary (tentative).

What we could really use right now is CB for temples to lock in our territory; there's plenty of forest to chop them along too. However, 7gpt and 293 gold is a bit much.

1325 BC (7) Salamanca settler - settler. This settler will go East. Grand River produces a settler too; I think we can send this one out too before abandoning and refounding it.

IT Indians complete the Temple of Artemis

1300 BC (8) Found Akwesasne clearing the hut; we get a skilled warrior . Found Tyendenaga on the Western peninsula.

1275 BC (9) Mauch Chunk curragh-curragh.

Do what we should have done a while ago and establish an embassy with the Indians. Delhi is at size 6, has a temple and is producing a swordsman; they can build one every 2 turns. Indians don't have horses, do have silks. Gandhi is now polite.

Looking at the map, the warrior I disbanded earlier on would have been useful now:

it would have had clear passage to the lightblue city. Well, at least we know the sword isn't meant for us.

Luxes to 20%.

1300 BC (10) Nothing. There are two settler pairs heading east and another settler is due from Salamanca next turn. We only need 1-2 more settlers now, Salamanca can do workers after that. We'll meet the other civ about 8 turns from now if the Indians don't destroy the city Anarres spotted. Still no trades, but 350 gold is now close to a deal for CB. Alternatively, hoard our cash, build chariots in preparation for mass upgrade to MWs.

There's a worker next to Niagara Falls who I think should bring irrigation there. Grand River should be moved 1 tile NE with the next settler it produces, just be sure to set it to +0fpt before it completes.

save

 

[Aggie]

Looking good. I agree that we have to meet others. But nr one objective -decent expansion- is going very well.

ROSTER:
-Nad
-Greebly
-anarres
-Jack Merchant
-TedJackson------> up
-Aggie--------------> on deck