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Age and Steam reluctancy

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by toft, Jun 3, 2010.

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Age and Steam-stance.

Poll closed Aug 2, 2010.
  1. 0-10 Positive

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  2. 11-20 Positive

    38 vote(s)
    16.8%
  3. 21-30 Positive

    51 vote(s)
    22.6%
  4. 31-40 Positive

    20 vote(s)
    8.8%
  5. 41-50 Positive

    10 vote(s)
    4.4%
  6. 51+ Positive

    5 vote(s)
    2.2%
  7. 0-10 Negative

    3 vote(s)
    1.3%
  8. 11-20 Negative

    21 vote(s)
    9.3%
  9. 21-30 Negative

    35 vote(s)
    15.5%
  10. 31-40 Negative

    23 vote(s)
    10.2%
  11. 41-50 Negative

    12 vote(s)
    5.3%
  12. 51+ Negative

    7 vote(s)
    3.1%
  1. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
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    After recent information surfaced that Steam takes away your control over patching unless you permanently use offline mode I have switched my stance from positive/don't care to negative. Bottom line don't give customers a worse experience than those who pirate the game.
    Although I'll buy the game I'll have to look for some way to regain control of patching decisions.
     
  2. Ingvina Freyr

    Ingvina Freyr wants a Steamfree option

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    Well put, mjs0! I think you're far from going senile. :) However, wouldn't you agree that as sources of annoyance affects you less with age, so does objects of desire?

    The OP wants to know if there is a link between Steam reluctancy and age, and if there is I don't think it has to do with fear of new technological solutions as some would like to suggest. I think it's a question of integrity. Most people much more readily accept given conditions at a young age than they do as they grow older.

    Personally I find that if companies that desires my money shows little will to offer their products or services in a way that is agreeable to me (ie: as many ways possible for as many customers as possible), but instead tries to force the behavior of their customers to suit their whims, I'd rather say thank you but no thank you.
     
  3. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Central Florida
    I can agree with that in the sense that I find it easier to resist the appeal of shiny objects and have more willpower to prevent frivolous purchases.
    I think this is very contextual and it has a lot more to do with personality type than age. I know some contemporaries who are reluctant adopters of technology and some who are eager. I have friends in their 80s and my parents who just turned 70, all of whom are constantly experimenting with new gadgets and ways to do things. I know others who are much younger that are petrified of new technology.
    I'm not sure the issue is accepting given conditions so much as risk taking, younger people tend to be more willing to take risks. Fear of technology is just one factor when assessing risk so the tendency towards greater risk-taking in the young can overcome the fear or mistrust of technology in those for whom it is a factor.
    Companies look for that sweet spot where they can do the least amount of effort to attract the most number of customers. When incremental changes in effort drop below a certain return in terms of additional customers then the incentive for them to continue making more effort is simply not there. Sometimes the efforts they are making align with ones principles and expectations, sometimes they don't.

    Overall it is a question of weighing up all the issues and making a personal decision and I find I am much more logical about that whole process than when I was younger. Rather than 'I simply must have it no matter what' (the desire you alluded to above) I can step back and say given all the factors do I really want this.

    In the case of Civ5 when I weigh up the positives (the potential for literally hundreds of hours of enjoyment) with the negatives ($50-$60 at risk, minor privacy concerns, nebulous concerns about supporting a business model I dislike) then the decision is, for me, pretty straightforward. That doesn't mean I will go all fanboy and pretend I love Steam, I will continue to speak out on things I don't like, but on balance those things simply don't outweigh the positives.

    Of course, it's perfectly possible that, to paraphrase a certain elderly Vulcan, "Logic fails me where my civ is concerned", but another benefit of age is that I am also better at rationalizing poor decisions than I used to be. :)
     
  4. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant The Voice in Your Head Moderator

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    Due to the fact that I believe Civ5 is going to suffer from "Steam controlled moddability":

    40, couldn't care less about Steam or Civ5 until someone proves otherwise.
     
  5. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
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    Location:
    Twilight Zone
    Pretty much feel the same way as Lemon. Although i'm a wee bit older :)

    Interesting poll results so far though.
     
  6. frekk

    frekk Scourge of St. Lawrence

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,151
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    Looks like the younger one is, the more likely to be gullible about Steam.
     
  7. Thyrwyn

    Thyrwyn Guardian at the Gate

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,289
    Location:
    State College, PA
    I think "receptive" would be a better way to describe it. But I am 44 (and "receptive"), so I must be a rebel :)
     
  8. Merovinge

    Merovinge Warlord

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Steam offers lots of ease of use, allows indie game manufacturer's to exist, and is good for video-games as a whole. I have no association with steam/valve, but their product truly is revolutionary and awesome, mostly because it's easy to use for the consumer, and cheap enough to run that it pays the developers.

    I can understand civ players, which are probably the least representative of the gaming market, to be hesitant. Really, Valve is a top notch company as is firaxis, and they are just progressing with the time, not trying to screw anyone over. They will do whatever is necessary to appease most of the hardcore fans, outside of simply not having it use steam.

    Because of steam, I can reformat my computer and instantly download all my steam stuff super easily, or heck even play all my games on another computer if I don't have access to my own. They also give games away for free occasionally (most recently portal), and have lots of stuff dirt cheap (I got civ4 complete for 10 bucks and I can run it on both my OSX and windows sides).

    Really what you wanted to say was that the younger one is, the more likely to adopt to new technology.
     
  9. frekk

    frekk Scourge of St. Lawrence

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,151
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    No, because there isn't any new technology involved. Downloading software from the internet and/or internet registration of products is hardly new, regardless of what sort of form it may take.

    What's different about Steam is that you are sold something that you never own. To own something, you must be able to sell it and be able to use it in any way you see fit. That's what distinguishes mere possession from ownership, and in every possible way, Steam treats the customer as merely a possessor of the product, not an owner - even able to revoke possession at its convenience, something you can never do to the owner of a product. The distinction is, perhaps, lost on the young.
     
  10. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    5,516
    Yes, Valve is front line in 'We can steal the product back from you, if we wish to, because you own absolutely nothing, not even the box it came in'. This is a far-cry from them owning intellectual property only.

    Do they do this often? No. Have they done this? Yes. Are they held liable? No. Is it against laws in various areas? I'm no lawyer, but I bet you it is.
     
  11. toft

    toft King

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    May 18, 2005
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    Location:
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    And I bet that Valve is shutting down accounts for fun :mischief: Just like the police finds it hilarious to catch innocent thieves.
     
  12. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    If they did that, they would destroy themselves.

    They are heading in the direction that they own everything, you own nothing (even if you purchase from the store). They have the right to suspend or ban your account if they choose, because you are a renter, not an owner; they do not have to provide service to you. You play a game on their service if they let you, and they decide when, how, where you can do it.

    It is blatantly obvious to an observer viewing the current trends compared to past DRM history. They are not out to 'Get You', they are out to have total control over everything else along with intellectual rights.

    To them, you buy the 'right to play, as long as you abide by their rules'. Else you get banned, you are out of money, can't sell your game or take it back, therefore you must fall in line with Corporate to play an offline game.

    Blizzard has recently gone against this 'Nanny State DRM' and is offering a solution that does not control you like Steam does. Gamers should support companies like Blizzard for doing this.
     
  13. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    So buy indie. I do.
     
  14. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Because of game disks, I can format my computer and easily install all my games super easily without, or even play games on another computer if I don't have access to my own. I may not get free games often, but I do have lots of stuff I got dirt cheap from ebay (I can get civ4 complete for around 15 bucks (USD) - that's postage included - right now if I wanted).

    All of this without Steam. Has Steam marketing rubbed off on you?
    By the way, I appreciate there are reasons to like Steam - I just think at times people are looking for reasons. You don't even have to have reasons if you don't want - you can just like or dislike it. Nothing wrong with that.
     
  15. evirus

    evirus Warlord

    Joined:
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    steam has a lot of pluses when you have an internet connection, or have it running, of course when you don't have it running, and don't have an internet connection, it makes steam games useless.

    that being said if civ 5 requires steam, i'll just have to deal with it won't i?
     
  16. Alki

    Alki Prince

    Joined:
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    Location:
    München
    No. There is an offline mode. Anything you already have with steam can still be played if your internet connection is down.
     
  17. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    As long as you know to disable your network adapter if the internet is down. Otherwise it is possible to be unable to log into steam offline mode, as I found a few weeks ago.
     
  18. Grouchey

    Grouchey Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Over 40 been using Steam for several years, no problems. But I've seen PC game quality and comprehensiveness deteriorate in recent years. This phenomenon seems linked to flash in pan games and DLC sold quite easily through platforms like Steam, and so, I've grown to resent it and wish there were non-Steam options, especially for this game. These are mean streets, and I hate to see CIV on them.
     
  19. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Rose tinted spectacles. The games industry has been less willing to take risks in the past couple of years with the economic downturn but the quality of games looks to be ever improving to me.
     
  20. Gelvan

    Gelvan Prince

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    quality? or graphics?
    graphics are improving since the beginning.
    but quality? somehow I disagree.
    which games possibly could beat the mechanics of MoM, MoO, Baldurs Gate2, Alpha Centauri and so on.. look how difficult it is too even get the basics of this classics into a mod! (even though the modders do a great, phantastic, incredible job - still it seems really hard to do)

    it's like the Alpha Edition of Magic Cards compared to the last edition ot it. you just can't produce a Black Lotus anymore.

    and why is that? because EA, Ubisoft and Activision destroyed the market with their paranoid fear of pirates, which made Securerom rich, but not the games they developed...

    Firaxis was one of the last shining hopes on a more on more darkened gamers sky.
    now there's only Stardock left and some other small distributors. Bethesda maybe.

    but how long will they stand against an uber Valve who controlls everything, who controls even the quite enourmous civ community? not long enough I guess. and then will all publishers be forced to use the stream Gate to publish their games, and gloom will be rising on the pc market...

    in another thread one said we should appreciate what take2 did all the years for us.
    that's true (aside the fact, that my appreciation goes to Firaxis first but anyway).
    but now: take2 destroyed everything, every little bit of trust they had,
    with the decision to support the dark side.

    of course this is only my opinion and shouldn't be taken too serious. ^^
    maybe I change it until august. :)
    I like to have options.
    I don't like to be forced to do something.

    oh, and now I have to install the Service Pack 2... cu around...
    :wink:
     

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