Age of Abundance Discussion Thread

[blackbutterfly]

I found it interesting to remember vanilla ruleset. And how AI actually charges some more reasonable amounts of cash for their luxuries and great works in trade, rather than just giving them away for pennies like in latest versions.

Standard Rules is much harder than "modern" ruleset. It shows how Civ VI actually regressed with expansions.

 

[Draco84]

The vanila ruleset definatly threw me off.

I rushed religion starting turn 2, took aurora and squeezed 3 cities in the tundra immediately while waiting for my latheon and planning for work ethic. Got my religion work ethic is available, awesome. Provides a % per citizen, not based flat rate based adjacency. Doh.

I don't regret Aurora, i had lots of faith and if you are quick you can settle the antarctic circle without too much trouble.

Sure was painful having to buy workers for every city though.

Question for those who played, were you able to use your spies to fabricate scandals in city states? I had the upgrade, but couldn't send my spy to city States when not at war with anyone.

 

[MrRadar]

Question for those who played, were you able to use your spies to fabricate scandals in city states? I had the upgrade, but couldn't send my spy to city States when not at war with anyone.

I don't think you can do this mission in vanilla. It only was introduced in later expansions, wiki says in R&F. In vanilla you can't reduce the number of AI envoys in a CS. I used spies to steal money and a couple of techs. And my counterspy in Athens was catching or killing AI spies every other turn or so They were trying to siphon off my funds so hard, but with zero success.

 

[Draco84]

That's what I was thinking, I'll need to load the game and see for sure what upgrades I had. I was sure it was fabricate scandal +2 levels.

Annoying you need to finish the game in one sitting if you want to keep your mods running. If anyone knows how to add ui mods back when loading I'm all ears!

 

[Krajzen]

I honestly thought this is the announcement of yet another historical 4X game, called the 'Age of Abundance'

 

[blackbutterfly]

I honestly thought this is the announcement of yet another historical 4X game, called the 'Age of Abundance'

TBH "Age of Abundance" was a little lame

I want "Age of Apocalypse"!

 

[KyivanRusCivPlease]

By the way, the announced "Map Size: Standard" is in fact Small, which is not bad as to the size, but still a mistake.

Anyway, I already completed the challenge of the month. It was unexpectingly unusual and quite fun to return to the Standard Rules. All is so much simplified (which is not bad, and maybe more immersive), you can forward settle to get those precious resources and luring land, and get no Era Score points when you are used to (there are still eurekas/inspirations and CS quests, which is quite enough and not superfluous). The thing I don't understand is why you get only 1 Culture Adjacency for a Theater Square next to a Wonder and no bonus for an adjacent Entertainment Complex. But ok, that is a different vanilla ruleset, not designed for the Governors, the Future Era and so on. I liked that the Diplomatic Quarter and Preserve are there, although they were added later to the game.

 

[crocivfanatic]

Finished it, this was my first time playing vanilla , and i can tell, it's super boring compared to expansions/dlc's. It was easy, but way too long , think it took around 10 hours to finish.

Mistakes which i did what caused too long play -
1. Not knowing how does culture win works in civ 6 ,i was still used to civ 5 system where you had leftover points for each civ, while here is every civ following the civ with biggest number of
domestic tourists, and your offensive number need to be bigger then domestic number of every civ in order to win.
2. Also not knowing how it's bad idea to kill civ completely if you push culture win, as then you lose their tourists.
3. Pushed acropolis instead religion holy site which i am sure would help
4.At one point i tried to do it "peacefully" but it was always 110 points behind so had to attack to stop it.

So in shortly, watch domestic touristic numbers, attack civ which have it too high, and focus on cities which have great works, no need to capture everything.
And that also means how spy and it's capabilities would help too. And you can declare war to everyone without fear, as it's prince level so their military capabilities are low.

 

[Ansive]

I'm guessing they did vanilla ruleset so that people without the expansions can play. (what a drag)
And the only reason to go to war is to pillage your way through the tech/civ tree.

There is abundance of resources, but not on your shores.
I won in 1913, 138 turns, with reliquary relics, walls, parks and trade routes. (and yields from pillaging warmongers)
I didn't get any Hall of Fame crash/bug. Badge is cool, but hidden under Age of Abundance.

Vanilla experience with no governors, 1 prophet, rushed era progression (loss of great people), no heroes, no weather, no rockbands, no golden ages, no loyalty pressure, old adjacency rules.
A leader that's highly geared for a cultural victory.
It was... ok.

Tile tooltips aren't working. AI rarely builds military units. There are deleted cities around the map for some reason.

Steam Community :: Screenshot :: age of abundance - end game

Steam Community: Sid Meier's Civilization VI. age of abundance - end game

steamcommunity.com

 

[KyivanRusCivPlease]

Tile tooltips aren't working

They worked for me again after I disabled the Sukritact's Simple UI Adjustments mod.​

 

[Disgustipated]

think it took around 10 hours to finish.

I definitely recommend going Acropolis first on both cities (and buy builders/military units). It didn't take me too long. I'm surprised so many people went religion. I'm so used to ignoring it in my games, I don't bother. For those that went religion, when was your victory time? And going warfare seemed like it would take too long, so I didn't bother. I just wanted to get it over with quickly. I just rammed in the touristy things and eventually got it.

 

[Aurelesk]

The thing I don't understand is why you get only 1 Culture Adjacency for a Theater Square next to a Wonder and no bonus for an adjacent Entertainment Complex. But ok, that is a different vanilla ruleset, not designed for the Governors, the Future Era and so on. I liked that the Diplomatic Quarter and Preserve are there, although they were added later to the game.

The major bous (+2) from adjacent Entertainment Complex is an addition from the Gathering Storm extension (well +2.5 with the minor adjacency from districts). The vanilla Theater Square and the Acropolis only have a standard bonus (+1) from adjacent Wonder, which was increased to +2 with Rise & Fall. The Meritocracy policy (+1 culture per district) helped a lot with Culture in Vanilla.

I definitely recommend going Acropolis first on both cities (and buy builders/military units). It didn't take me too long. I'm surprised so many people went religion. I'm so used to ignoring it in my games, I don't bother. For those that went religion, when was your victory time? And going warfare seemed like it would take too long, so I didn't bother. I just wanted to get it over with quickly. I just rammed in the touristy things and eventually got it.

The old Papal Primacy belief is very potent. It increases by 50% the yields given with Envoys in Vanilla. If the Ethiopia Pack isn't active (or wasn't bought), the 3rd and 6th Envoy bonuses applied to the base district instead of the buildings. A single converted Cultural or Trade City-State with 6 Envoys allows to give +2 Culture or +4 Gold to every Acropolis and Commercial Hub in the empire (while you don't care about the building) which is way more profitable than World Chuch (+1 Culture per 5 foreign followers) or even Church Property (+2 Gold for each converted cities).

So far, I am unable to get the Goddess of the Harvest pantheon (add a Faith yield for each chop). We start on turn 196, we can chop the Holy Site on turn 197 and have the required 25 Faith on turn 198. Yet, we cannot select the Pantheon and have to wait turn 199: the pantheon isn't available anymore. Egypt always get it on turn 198. Does anyone managed to get the Pantheon?

 

[blackbutterfly]

The old Papal Primacy belief is very potent. It increases by 50% the yields given with Envoys in Vanilla. If the Ethiopia Pack isn't active (or wasn't bought), the 3rd and 6th Envoy bonuses applied to the base district instead of the buildings. A single converted Cultural or Trade City-State with 6 Envoys allows to give +2 Culture or +4 Gold to every Acropolis and Commercial Hub in the empire (while you don't care about the building) which is way more profitable than World Chuch (+1 Culture per 5 foreign followers) or even Church Property (+2 Gold for each converted cities).

Is that the one that gives you envoys if you convert them?
Yeah, I think that helps.

But definitely Reliquaries is the way to go.
What you choose for your second tenet is up to you.

I had another go with this choice and shaved about 50 turns off my game largely b'cos I was able to DoW Holy War with Arabia twice. No capturing of any cities. Just pillage and plunder.
But I know this largely depends on the RNG goddess (and where you forward settle Arabia).

 

[Aurelesk]

Is that the one that gives you envoys if you convert them?
Yeah, I think that helps.

It is Religious Unity that grants 1 Envoy when converted.

With Rise & Fall, Papal Primacy changed and is now granting 200 religious Pressure per Envoy to City-States.
Aside: the proposed change always felt odd to me. It is the only Founder belief that doesn't reward you from converting cities. It feels more like a Enhancer belief, which is supposed to help to spread or defend your religion. I guess it is on purpose: you sacrifice the "profit" belief for another "spread" belief. Kind of the same with Crusade, which is a Enhancer belief, but feels more like a Founder belief: you are rewarded with better military capabilities when the foreign city is converted, but does not help to convert cities.

But in Vanilla, Papal Primacy bonus is: Type bonuses from City-States following your Religion are 50% more powerful.
For example, Kumasi gives +1, +2 and +3 Culture to Amphitheater, Museum and Broadcast center. If Kumasi is converted and you picked Papal Primacy, therefore you will enjoy +1.5, +3 and +4.5 Culture instead. To every buildings in your empire. Even if the city itself don't follow your Faith. This is completely insane.

Even if you only had 6 Acropolis with a Amphitheater and Museum, it will give 6 × (0.5 + 1) = 9 additional Culture when converting a single Cultural City-State. In order for vanilla World Church to give as much (+1 Culture for every 5 foreign followers), you will need 45 foreign followers: basically converting a whole Civilization.

But those are the numbers with the Ethiopia Pack. Here are the differences between Vanilla and Ethiopia Pack.

Cultural​	Vanilla​	Ethiopia Pack​
1 Envoy	+2 Culture in the Capital	+1 Culture in the Capital and to Amphitheaters
3 Envoys	+2 Culture to Theater Squares	+2 Culture to the Consulate and Museums
6 Envoys	+2 Culture to Theater Squares	+3 Culture to the Chancery and Broadcast Centers

Trade​	Vanilla​	Ethiopia Pack​
1 Envoy	+4 Gold in the Capital	+2 Gold in the Capital, to Markets and Lighthouses
3 Envoys	+4 Gold to Commercial Hubs*	+4 Gold to the Consulate, Banks and Shipyards
6 Envoys	+4 Gold to Commercial Hubs*	+6 Gold to the Chancery, Stock Exchanges and Seaports

* : Only Commercial Hubs. The Harbors do not enjoy from it in Vanilla.

Even if the Ethiopia Pack can reach higher yield, the Vanilla way make enjoy from them earlier. You chopped the Acropolis in a foreign continent? No need for buildings, you can already enjoy the Culture from City-States. You picked Papal Primacy and converted 4 Cultural City-States? Well, enjoys your free +24 Culture!

As the late-game building's cost is higher in vanilla, while most tile improvements were made better starting Gathering Storm (including Industrial Zone), getting most buildings in cities is way harder or costlier. It is far more easier to just chop a Commercial Hub (which gives the Trade Route directly in Vanilla, without the Market) and forget about their buildings as it is not worth it.

You just have to be careful about Spies, but since they target the city with the higher GPT, you can figure out which one will attract all the Spies, therefore put one to defend.

But definitely Reliquaries is the way to go.
What you choose for your second tenet is up to you.

Every time I picked Reliquaries, I couldn't make it work. Only Arabia is going to have a Religion and Saladin seems to completely ignore Apostle. Sure, I could go after some Missionnaries he tends to summon in the first 75 turns, but once my Apostles were parked in his empire waiting to die, he just stopped to buy Missionaries. He stockpiled the Faith (1000+) and did nothing with it.
I was unable to get a single of my Apostle killed with Mont-Saint-Michel for an extra Relic. You basically depends on how much Relics were generated from Tribal Village. It is very situational. Yet... all other Follower Beliefs are not great either.

From all the Follower Beliefs, I don't think there is one that would help a lot. I think Jesuit Education is probably the next best, as it allows to buy a few Amphitheater and Archaeological Museum, as you might want to save the Gold to buy the Archaeologist, or save to try to get Mary Leaky (+200% Tourism from Artifacts). Zen Meditation could help with Amenity as our starting continent does not have much Luxury Resources and the AI are selling them at an exorbitant price, but low Amenity maluses are not as detrimental in Vanilla.
Choral Music and Divine Inspiration don't feel right, as Culture isn't the bottleneck and the few Wonders we could build may give us more Faith, but that Faith isn't as useful (National Parks are pricey as Naturalists are 2.5 more expensive).
There is still Work Ethic, that could help to build Wonders in main cities or go for more projects.

I had a second go with this choice and shaved about 50 turns off my game largely b'cos I was able to DoW Holy War with Arabia twice. No capturing of any cities. Just pillage and plunder.
But I know this largely depends on the RNG goddess (and where you forward settle Arabia).

I went very peaceful every time with all Alliances with everyone. I should try a war approach, as Kongo is consistently Cultural, and Egypt sometimes outperforms in the late game (but not always?). It would fuel my economy better, so let's see it compensate the lack of modifiers (no trade-route, no open borders), and the inability to buy Great Works from them.

From all the Leaders they picked, they only picked Vanilla. And from all Vanilla, they picked the one with Culture: Brazil (Theater Square/Rainforest, Great People), Egypt (Wonder, Sphinx), France (Wonder, Château), Kongo (Slots, Great People, Artifacts), Rome (free Monument, but we all start with free Monument...), and Russia (Great People, Trade).
The only odd one is Arabia. Probably to force to have two religions in the game.
Oddly, they didn't pick China (no ancient/classical Wonders, but there is still the Great Wall), America (Film Studio, but really gimmicky) and... England as vanilla England have "British Museum" as an ability instead of "Workshop of the World".

 

[KyivanRusCivPlease]

In my game, I planned to get a Great Prophet, but pushed not hard enough, so religion slipped from me. I had around 9 cities total. For Tourism, apart from several Great Works and Artifacts, I had 3 or 4 National Parks (God, are those Naturalists expensive in Vanilla: 1600 against 600 Faith in GS), all kinds of Walls in almost all cities, and lots of Seaside Resorts. My National Parks and Seaside Resorts were boosted by the Eiffel Tower. I also built Mont St. Michel and Cristo Redentor. I even gained a few Relics toward the end of the game by attacking enemy Gurus near their Holy City, which healed themselves, unlike my Apostles.

 

[Airey]

But definitely Reliquaries is the way to go.

Just curious how many turns it took you to win? After shaving 50 turns off.

Every time I picked Reliquaries, I couldn't make it work. Only Arabia is going to have a Religion and Saladin seems to completely ignore Apostle. Sure, I could go after some Missionnaries he tends to summon in the first 75 turns, but once my Apostles were parked in his empire waiting to die, he just stopped to buy Missionaries.

On lower difficulties, Saladin alone isn't able to generate enough faith to sustain 5+ relics. Probably bring Egypt into the mix.

He stockpiled the Faith (1000+) and did nothing with it.

Would it work if we were friendly with Arabia and have a city with no religion. Wait for his religious units to come to us?

 

[blackbutterfly]

Just curious how many turns it took you to win? After shaving 50 turns off.

Actually from the Hall of Fame I can see it was only around 20 turns. Not 50.
So it didn't really make a huge difference.

The big difference is in my first game I kinda went conquest, eliminating Kongo (and taking all their art).
Last game was no conquest at all. War yes, but only to pillage and plunder.

People forget in Standard Rules friendly bots will sell you their art. So I bought a ton from Russia and Brazil.

On lower difficulties, Saladin alone isn't able to generate enough faith to sustain 5+ relics. Probably bring Egypt into the mix.

B'cos this is late game start there will be only 2 religions. So no chance to involve Egypt in the relics game really.

Every time I picked Reliquaries, I couldn't make it work. Only Arabia is going to have a Religion and Saladin seems to completely ignore Apostle. Sure, I could go after some Missionnaries he tends to summon in the first 75 turns, but once my Apostles were parked in his empire waiting to die, he just stopped to buy Missionaries. He stockpiled the Faith (1000+) and did nothing with it.
I was unable to get a single of my Apostle killed with Mont-Saint-Michel for an extra Relic.

Ah, you don't need Arabia to build Apostles.
When I played, Arabia always built gurus and missionaries. Your Apostles can attack those. Gurus are the best. Give them a turn to heal and attack again next turn.

Kongo used to be my favourite civ in vanilla, so I got lots of practice with Apostles.

 

[Aestyr]

Hey guys, first time poster here.

In aiming for speed, was wondering what kind of strategies others found effective for this map. From my experience of civ 6 (all versions), raiding is so strong that neccessitates practically all victory conditions to take a conquest approach.
After exploring this map to the end and back a few times over the last few days, I managed to get as early as turn 249 (52 turns accrding to HoF) cultural victory. Majority of the work coming from seaside resorts with Christo Redento/Eiffel Tower/Computers, and walls to boot.
Reliquaries seemed like a thought, but like Aurelesk pointed out, it's too impractical of a strategy to be centred around. In fact, no religious beliefs seemed all that impactfull to warrant spending some 1600 pigeons on a prophet. After messing around with the starting few turns, I too couldnt manage to get the Goddess of the Harvest pantheon. Resorted to God of the Forge instead, which was working overtime in the first 10 to 30 turns, producing war chariots and horsemen. Around 5 and 15, respectively.

With regards to governments, an early inspiration can be gained in reformed church which lead me to work with theocracy for the most part (can buy trebuchets for siege tactics and early home town raids), but in hindsight, monarchy is better. Most players stay with monarchy till the end, boosting tourism; provides production towards walls; and has great policy configuration (2 red/ 2 purple).

Sending half a dozen cavalry/knights to each continent in the first 30 turns, who go on raiding spree without attacking any cities seems to create a smooth influx of all resources, particularly science/culture all the way to steel/computers and conservation/massmedia. Gold is r̶a̶r̶e̶ in demmand till the end. Mainly since workers are so unimpressive with their 5 charges and cant be faith-purchased. By the end, each was priced at ~800g.

There's more details to get into, but will leave it here for now.

 

[Airey]

I managed to get as early as turn 249 (52 turns accrding to HoF) cultural victory.

wow that's crazy fast~!

 

[The_J]

TBH "Age of Abundance" was a little lame

I want "Age of Apocalypse"!

You might find this interesting: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ation-released-a-post-apocalyptic-civ.684323/