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Age of Mythology

Discussion in 'Crazy Spatz's Alpha Centauri Mod' started by Spatzimaus, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. texdionis

    texdionis Warlord

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    Don't worry, this thread is still being read and your efforts are appreciated.
    Yours is a real piece of work, a very good mod I always like to play.
    I haven't installed 0.12 yet, bc I'm still playing a game with v0.11 running, but sure I will download.
    The only thing lacking is the same so far: art.
    If G&K is going to provide a share of models fitting good for your mythological units, then perfection will be on the way.
    Keep up the good work! :)
     
  2. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    Not going to get a chance to playtest further this week. I had wondered if it was going to be too difficult for those getting the biggest Favor boost from buildings. I hadn't realised the monument was one of the buildings providing Favor.
     
  3. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    Thanks; I don't mean it to sound like I'm fishing for compliments or anything. It's just that it's very, very tough for me to get enough actual gameplay feedback on this mod, for two reasons:
    1> I still have not actually played a complete game yet. Sometimes I'll get a dozen turns in, spot something that needs fixing immediately, then go do that and build a new version. New version means I have to restart the game. Even if I wait and just write down the ideas, they stack up quickly enough that I've never made it out of the Ancient Era before going back to the modding. So not only do I lack long-term feedback from my own play, I don't play enough games to get a real feel for the differences between Pantheons.
    2> I just know the mod too well. While this means I can spot errors better than most people, there's a real problem where my playstyle is too "tuned" for the way I intended to build things, instead of how they actually work in practice. I need to know where people are confused, or where what I thought of as the optimum strategy (and coded into the AI) turns out to be off. Take Priests, for instance; when telling the AI how many to use in 0.12, I came up with a rough equation based on what I knew of the internal mechanisms, but I still need to be sure that equation correlates to what players would do in the same situation. I need to know if AIs that pick Priest-heavy Pantheons are using too many and crippling their other yields, or if the Priest-light ones are using too few and falling behind in Favor. (The Priest logic is only in 0.12, but there are plenty of similar issues from earlier versions, like the number of Hero units you get or the strengths of Myth units relative to their mundane counterparts.)

    So without gameplay feedback from folks who play the mod, it's just really hard for me to balance the things that I know really need the most balance work. Without that I can still improve the UI, finish the Events, or flesh out the Civilopedia, but I'm way behind on the game balance, and I want to fix that before I end the beta phase.

    0.12 adds custom icons for the Myth units, which should help a bit. In 0.13 I'll have custom unit flags, as well as icons for the Heroes, but the 3D models will take quite some time, so I'll switch the units to use existing models other than the swordsmen in the interim. Given my past experience with the Ascension mod, that should be enough for a while. I doubt Gods and Kings will provide any useful models for Myth units, because they seem to be designing it to mimic Civ4's religion system, with a very mundane set of passive bonuses added on.

    But on the bright side, there are a lot of Civ4 unit models for fantasy units, so once I get the kinks worked out of the conversion process it shouldn't be too bad. I'll use the Ascension mod as the testbed for that, though, so you'll see finished models there before I try doing anything for the Mythology mod. Right now I'm still having the DX9-vs-10 texture issue and I'm also having problems importing animations.

    It's actually made the Monument a much more important part of my starting strategies. In a normal game, you might wait to build that Monument until after an initial Scout, Warrior, Worker, and maybe even Granary, since the first few Policies aren't that important (and generally only deal with adding Culture) and your top priority is dealing with Barbarians and growing the city. But in this mod, the Monument becomes a lot more important to get out right away, especially for certain Pantheons; sure, a battle-heavy pantheon (Aztec, Norse) would still prefer to fight Barbarians for the Battle Favor, but the ones with high Building Favor can use this to unlock your first minor god much more quickly. That god's free Shrine in your capital might give you a tremendous boost, especially if you pick a yield-boosting Focus; take a Knowledge god and sure, it's only +1 Research from the Shrine, but at a time when you're only generating 4 or 5 Research each turn, that's not exactly a small boost. (The added visibility for new units is also handy in the Ancient.) Or pick Crafts, and suddenly you'll get +1 Production in your capital, AND another +1 for any Iron or Stone nearby. Sure, the Iron won't appear until you reach the right tech, but it's pretty common once it does show up.

    Between the Monument and Palace, I'm hoping that this effect will be important enough to not penalize picking a Building-heavy Pantheon during the Ancient Era despite the much larger number of religious buildings in later eras. But it's hard to know for sure.
     
  4. texdionis

    texdionis Warlord

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    One possible issue related to middle/late game: it is nearly impossible to set up gold per turn agreements since every AI civ is basically bankrupted all the time. They simply go on with a constant "minus a lot" gold per turn revenue; that's a bit weird :crazyeye:
     
  5. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    Can you be more specific on the "middle/late" part? Does that mean Medieval, or later? This is the sort of balance issue I was talking about before; with 21 Foci, I want enough overlap that the AI's basically random selection process can still keep its yields above that crippled level. Take Gold for instance; sure, Wealth is the obvious one to take if you don't want to be crippled by the penalties, but Water, Plants, Travel, Animals, Seasons, and Balance can also boost Gold production at various levels. I don't want it to be absolutely required you take Wealth to avoid those issues, so if those others can't compensate then I'll need to add +Gold to some other Foci (like Justice).

    I'm trying to code in some logic for the AI to pick its deities more intelligently, but the issue remains. It's possible that the AI wasn't selecting any at all, and I'm going to try to make that clearer, but it's more likely that it was simply picking the ones that added combat-related things like Death, Healing, War, Storms, etc. instead of the more essential yield-boosting ones. I'm going to try and weight its decisions to favor the yield ones a bit, but the problem remains.

    It's also possible that the AI just used too many Priests and crippled its yield production. I'm going to try to add some debug statements to narrow that down a bit.

    Also, a few other questions on that scenario:
    > Did YOU have any money issues at the same time, or was it just the AI?
    > Which major god did you pick, and which minor gods did you add later?
    > Were you letting the city AI handle the Priest slotting, or did you switch your cities to manual specialists?
     
  6. texdionis

    texdionis Warlord

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    Yes, I noticed that around the medieval era, but it affects the AI only, because I can manage my finances.
    So far I have played one game with Zeus major god, and two games with Poseidon. About minor gods, i don't recall exactly all their names, but I remember many of the paths: Animals, Death, Seasons, Water, Earth, Fertility, Plants, Fire.
    I always switch my cities to manual specialists.
     
  7. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    Well, you're using v0.11, which means the AI players aren't using Priests, and so going manual doesn't change anything. In 0.12, your city manager AI will attempt to use Priest slots in your own cities, as long as you don't go to manual, so I'm keeping it on automatic in my own test games to see what it'd be like to be the AI. It's possible, then, that because the AIs aren't using Priests in your games, they're not unlocking nearly as many minor gods, especially AIs that pick Sumerian or Hindu gods (the two pantheons with x3 Priest Favor). There aren't that many minor gods that add gold, but the bonuses add up.

    Over the weekend I did some balance checking of my own, and the result was that a few of the more one-dimensional Foci are now being changed a bit, generally upwards. Travel, Beauty, Fire, and War have been boosted a little, and I'm still working on Air, Earth, Darkness, and Justice. For instance, Travel used to add +1% to trade route income at level 3 and +5% at level 4 (and that's empire-wide, not the amount generated by that city). Now it'll be +1/2/3/5% for the four levels, so while it still won't give nearly as much gold as Wealth, it'll be be significant even in the earlier eras.

    Or take Fire; besides the promotions for normal units, it now also reduces the cost of rushing production by 1/2/3/5% (again, empire-wide effect). That'll save a bit of gold, especially for the AI because of its automatic discount. Now, I'd wanted Fire and Death to help you to rush things with population instead of gold, but I'm still trying to figure out how to enable that correctly. Fire wasn't exactly a weak choice before, but with this second effect it'll be a much better choice for an early minor god even if you're not a warmonger.

    I'm hoping that there won't be too many more of these balance passes, but now that the mod is fully playable I can really get into the testing and get something solid by the end of the month.
     
  8. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    Forgot to say something: I'm currently considering making a significant change to how Priest Favor works. Here's the basic breakdown:

    Old way: Using a Priest adds 3, 6, or 9 Favor to that particular Focus in that particular city. No other Foci or cities benefit.
    Side effects: You can't use Priest favor as a way to jump-start buildings in a newly founded city. A new city won't have any Building Favor being generated, either, especially in the Ancient, so it pretty much becomes all about battle favor and the base growth rates. Also, once a Focus reaches its cap in a city, there's no reason to use Priests in that building any more (which is hard to teach the AI, although I'm working on it).

    New way: Using a Priest still adds 3, 6, or 9 Favor to that Focus, but it's now diluted across all of your cities. One-third stays in that city, and the rest is split evenly across your other cities. (So 1 city means it all stays, 2 cities goes 66.7-33.3%, 3 goes 55.5-22.2-22.2, 4 goes 50-16.7-16.7-16.7, and so on.)

    The upshot is that using a Priest of Fire in the Cathedral in your capital will help grow the Shrines of Fire in your new colonies. It's sort of the inverse of Building Favor, where all Foci benefit within a city but no other cities benefit. This'd help the AI, as it makes the choice of which Priest slot to use a bit less important in the later game, and it'd also help out with Priest-heavy Pantheons as normally you can't afford to use a Priest in a growing city because of the yield cost. The downside is that it'd be harder to really work towards a specific goal (i.e., get focus #1 to the next level, then switch to only increasing focus #2); since the AI doesn't use that sort of tactic this isn't such a bad thing, but I was hoping to train it to do that.

    Thoughts?
     
  9. dinobot386

    dinobot386 Prince

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    Good idea, in alot of my games my capitol is the only relevent city towards foci, this would really help fix that
     
  10. dinobot386

    dinobot386 Prince

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    In case you haven't gotten the infromation, G&K religion is outlined in detail here:
    http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_expansion.html

    This looks like it could fit into your AoM mod very well.

    And from what it looks like, you can buy certain units with faith, would you want to make myth units available through faith? Would work just like how myth units worked in AoM

    Also, the idea that was mentioned about policies effecting in game politics (order/freedom/autocrasy) seems to be being added, so we might just have your "blocks" that were intended for AoE
     
  11. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    I saw that. It's close enough to my design that I'll HAVE to adjust for it, but different enough that it's not going to be easy. There's a lot of overlap between the two systems, but the G&K system seems to be very passive, not nearly as tunable as mine (for better or worse)

    One problem is that there's so much overlap in terminology and such. Do I rename my Shrines to something else, or do I rename the G&K ones? Do I keep calling my resource Favor and try to keep it separate from Faith, or do I try to merge the two and potentially break the whole Battle-Priest-Building setup?

    The problem was that Favor in AoM was used to purchase various promotions, train Myth units, etc., so once you had a certain amount there was really no reason to get more. Sure, you'd want to replace any dead Myth units, but in a single-player game that was rarely an issue. I've already gone well away from that, in that I have the minor god unlocks tie to Favor, so you'll always want to generate more. From what I've seen, the G&K religion system is similar, in that more Faith lets you add bonuses to your religion, so in theory the two would fit together.

    Now, when I first started this whole thing, I'd originally intended to have Myth units be purchaseable. And if the expansion is implementing that, then presumably the AI can be taught when to stop buying more, which removes one of the big stumbling blocks I had. But I'm just not sure how well that'd fit with the Minor God system I've set up, since I'd either have to find a new mechanism for unlocking gods, or figure out a better way to balance them. (Remember, in AoM you unlocked new gods when you advanced an Age, which cost you resources to do.)

    -----

    So one thing I'd thought of, when G&K was first announced, was to replace my current Favor system with the Faith system they're adding, at something like a 100:1 conversion ratio, use Lua to award extra Faith for things like battles, and make Favor be a custom Strategic Resource required by all Myth units. That is, instead of explicitly limiting you to 6 Zombie Hordes, I'd just make the Zombie Horde require one unit of Favor, while the tougher Myth units would require multiple Favor to maintain. Favor would only be generated (using the Building Resources mod) by my religious buildings, with Myth-heavy ones giving more, and would naturally disappear at the Enlightenment.
    I'd have to add a few new rules (if you have more Favor than your current units consume, units start disbanding automatically, like they do if you're out of gold), but it'd be workable. I've been looking at implementing something like this in the near term, but I want to get 1.00 out first.

    I saw that. Even if we don't get DLL access right away, I'm hopeful that this'd give us some new stubs/functions to alter empire-on-empire relationships, and if I can change those, then there's a LOT I could do right away in the Empires mod. Of course, we're talking about two months from now, so "right away" is relative.
     
  12. dinobot386

    dinobot386 Prince

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    Another idea I was thinking of, since there are buildings that can be purchased by favor/faith, is have national wonders purchaseable with said resource as opposed to production, simular to the "techs" in AoM, like how you could "build" Aegis Shield after choosing Athena, or Thundering Hooves with Freyja
     
  13. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    In honor of Friday the 13th, I've posted v.0.13 of this mod to the Files thread. Now, I'll say here what I said there: I just significantly altered the balance of the Foci.

    Specifically, I went through all the Foci and counted up which ones added to combat somehow (promotions, Myth units, healing/damage) and which ones had "peacetime" effects (yields and such). Too many were purely one but not the other, and I felt that had to change; it was too problematic to have so many Foci that were clearly bad choices at certain stages of the game.

    So I started adding and tweaking; I'd mentioned some of these changes before, but I added a few more along the way. As of 0.13, pretty much the only Foci that DON'T add both combat and non-combat effects are the Yield Foci (and let's face it, no one's ever going to claim the production boost from Crafts is worthless)... and Storms.

    Storms is a problem. Its two effects (a city damage aura and a city defense boost) are not only combat-specific, they're DEFENSIVE combat. I need something else, something chaotic that isn't combat-specific. I'm open to suggestions, but here's what I was thinking of:
    Storms makes Events occur more often.
    Since Events are always beneficial in the Mythology mod, this'd never be a bad thing. Since they're randomly occurring, it's more than chaotic enough. One thing I thought of was that if I DO add negative events (or even power-neutral Events in the Empires mod that have both positive and negative effects), Storms could also make you immune to those negative effects; that was actually what had given me the idea in the first place, that Storms could protect you from natural disasters.
    I might have to do this in two parts. with each religious building raising the event probabilities (which are floats and so can be tweaked with small amounts), while the Basilica lowers the lockout timers by 1 turn as well.

    The balance on that idea is going to be a pain, though, which is why I held off putting it into this version. The Events are basically the only remaining game system that I haven't modified in Foci somewhere, so unless someone comes up with something better, I'll probably go with this and dump the city defense boost to keep it balanced, and possibly shrink the area of effect of the damage aura a little. But like I said, the balance is going to be tough because I still haven't finalized all of the High Events yet. Note that the only Pantheons that can't get Storms are the Greek and Hindu; the Greeks have more High Events than the others, so I can't let the Storms effect be enough to make the Greek bonus worthless. Conversely, the Hindu don't NEED that many High Events, because they get an Avatar for free upon entering the Medieval if they didn't have one already, and it's a respawning unit (can't ever die) so they don't need replacements.

    The other idea I'd had involved the Dream Twister. For those of you who don't play the Ascension mod, that's a psionic Wonder in the Nanotech Era that subtracts 10 Happiness from every player other than you. Storms could, in theory, be something like that (although -10 would be way too large for this), effectively boosting you by penalizing all the other empires. It's not actually a combat effect, and it'd be pretty useful since it'd force the other players to use more Priests, at the expense of their other needs.

    Or I might do both, but between those and the damage aura it might be a bit much.

    ==============

    But anyway, beyond that, this version is pretty much done. I've still got some icon work to do, and the High Events still haven't been put in place for anyone other than the Norse (because I want to test each outcome at least once to make sure it doesn't crash anything), but all of the basic elements should now be in place (other than the Storms balancing). At this point, people should be able to play complete games and give detailed balance feedback, because it's pretty much all there now.

    So, the plan is to release v.1.00 of this mod at the end of April, with those few unfinished bits completed. And then I'm done, at least for a while; I'll go back to working on the Ascension unit models, maybe start coding up the persistent Events for the Empires mod, and I'll wait for Gods and Kings to come out before making any changes that might require me to toss out my entire design here.
     
  14. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    Hi.
    just read the first 6pages of the thread.

    I'm not going to play your mod very soon as I don't have ciV... (my computer's capability is limited to cIV) so take my comments with all the grains of salt you want :D

    I think most of the ideas are very well thought of.

    I like what you have done.

    I just feel sad about one of the "base rules" of your mode : that there is NO remaining effect of the mythology after education.

    I love to have the beginning of my game having an effect latter.
    IN real life, the cultural aspects differences between greece and asia or mexico comprise some (many?) lingering aspects of their myth period.

    Maybe you can make it so there are some remaining effects of your early or later mythological choices; not something that would be overpowered, but some remaing effects ; maybe triggered latter, at the end of renaissance era or so, when people start to re-study the "ancient myths"..


    Maybe you could make it that basillicas is not removed but transformed into a "ruins of X" in the city. that gives nothing at first and then some cultural effects; production effect (source for building materials --> pyramids), defense effect (storage buildings -parthenon)...Etc different for each Major God or Foci or pantheon.

    or

    The place where the Tier IV mythological units are "rumored" to have died/lived (building in the closest city to there death, improvement on the tile they died...etc) could have some +1commerce/culture effect in latter techs (think of the age of discoveries were all scientists and archeologs went crazy everwhere)

    Maybe some mythological beasts / heros doesn't Have To disappear after enlightment. maybe they can become feral (becoming barb) or you can get a choice to keep them or "enlight them" to bring culture/gold...Etc.
    Or maybe they become crazier more suicidal / defend less well...; anyway eventually they'll die easily as their powerrating drops with regard to anti-myth promotions and gunpodwer units.

    well. but that goes again your basic rules ...so.
     
  15. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    The beginning of the game DOES have an effect later, in the same way that the vanilla game's early eras have effects later: the number of cities you have, the technologies you've researched, the improvements you've built, and so on all stay with you. What goes away are the direct effects, like how worshipping a Death god allows your units to rise from the grave after dying, or how worshipping an Animal god allows you to train mythological creatures. There are a few specific Foci whose effects are a bit more persistent. For instance, the Plants focus allows you to plant Forests and Jungles with its Myth units, and those obviously stick around after the Enlightenment.

    Basically, the vanilla game's early eras were really only there to set up the board for the REAL part of the game; sure, a few civs will die during the Ancient or Classical, but the important part is the effect it has on the part stretching from the late Medieval to the end of the Industrial, when the most powerful nations will go on a conquering spree and/or build tons of Wonders. The key concept here is the "turning point", the one moment in the game when you realize that you've already won and that it's all just mopping up at that point. In the vanilla game, this point usually comes in the Industrial Era, and there's no point in playing through the Modern.

    I wanted something that made the early eras important, but I also wanted to make sure that any significant advantages you gained in those eras didn't carry over to the later eras. You see, if they DID carry over, then there'd be no point in letting the mythological period end in the first place. The turning point would be even earlier than it was in the vanilla game, because whichever civs did best in the myth period would continue to dominate afterward. There'd be no point in even having those later eras; a game with this mod would become a game ONLY with this mod. So I CAN'T let a significant fraction of the effects persist, or else there'd be no point in using either of my other content mods with this one, because you'd never get to any of the content they add.

    What has stayed is what, in Civ5 terms, we'd call "Culture", as in, the pseudo-yield that unlocks Policies. The earlier religions DO still have effects on the modern-day culture, but those effects are very generic, not tied to the specific gods worshipped. (Besides, most of the cultures you mention don't even worship those old gods any more. Greeks don't still pray to Zeus, Mexicans don't pray to Tezcatlipoca, and most people have never even heard of the Sumerian gods.) While various parts of the modern societies might still identify with certain gods, you'd have a hard time convincing me that those gods have a practical impact that isn't attributable to the worshippers themselves; the Japanese corporations with shrines to Inari don't succeed because she's helped them out, they do so because they're selling their goods more often than the competition. At best, you'd assume they used the culture from that worship to invest in policies in the Commerce branch. Zeus doesn't throw lightning bolts at Greece's enemies, and Odin and Thor don't make Scandanavians unstoppable in battle. Obviously, the Hindu followers still actively worship their pantheon, but most of the others have long since been purely relegated to that "myth" status that makes them part of your culture (forming the basis of books, movies, etc. that keep people entertained) without any other effects.

    This is mainly what the Piety branch in the Policies page already represents; the Happiness and Culture you get from the religious rituals themselves, but none of the effects that would be granted by the gods directly. And remember, you have to pick between that or Rationalism (the policy branch that adds research), so it's not like there's not precedent for my choice of making myth effects exclusive with the post-Myth period. And, the hidden policies I use to manage the Mythological Age already take this into account; ending the Mythological Age doesn't unilaterally reduce your benefits, you often get other things instead, mostly Culture, as the semi-religious content in the vanilla game shifts from being something you use to impress the gods to something that's just a part of your cultural heritage.

    Take the Monument, for instance. In the vanilla game, it adds 2 Culture. During the Mythological Age it instead adds 1 Culture and 1/2/3 Favor. Completing the Enlightenment removes the policy, which changes it back to 2 Culture. In effect, then, you're gaining 1 extra Culture at the cost of the Favor. That is, you're no longer using that monument to impress the gods, you're now using it as a tourist attraction. Likewise, Stonehenge goes from 3 Culture and 3/6/9 Favor to 6 Culture; long after the druids stop using it for their rituals, it's still a notable part of the local culture. It's not always about Culture, either; a Colosseum gains Happiness at the cost of its Favor generation, as it transitions from "place for competitions honoring the gods" to "place for entertaining the public".

    It's possible that I could give a weak remnant of some kind; I've toyed with this idea for a long time. For instance, if you worshipped Zeus in the mythological age, you might be left with a "Statue of Zeus" in your capital that acted like a National Wonder with weak effects related to Zeus' specialties and/or the Greek pantheon effects. Everyone would get one and only one, so the balance concern goes away. I'm not sure it's worth the amount of effort it'd take to implement this for 28 different gods, but it wouldn't be difficult to implement at all, as I've already got a Lua event that triggers on completion of the Enlightenment.

    But again, powerwise these'd be fairly weak compared to the pre-Enlightenment effects, only at the level of a National Wonder. Basically, I'd just take the two Shrine bonuses for your primary and secondary Foci and add them together (unless you had one of the Foci whose effects are Myth-related, in which case I'll try to come up with something appropriate), plus throw on a small bit for the Pantheon. Nothing huge, but still something worth having.

    During the Enlightenment, you're given a one-time infusion of Culture and Golden Age progress for every religious building that downgrades (and it happens per downgrade, which means a Basilica gives you four of them as it goes down the chain). This is supposed to represent that sort of scavenging for other purposes, although its real point is to give you a sudden rush of policies and yields as you go through the Enlightenment, to make ending the mythological age a key time in your civilization. (Also, it helps offset the large penalties of the Mythological Age during a time when you're no longer getting the offsetting bonuses. I'm also looking at having the policies downgrade at the same time to keep this manageable.)

    Likewise, you're given gold and science for every mythological unit that is disbanded. Maybe you killed that Minotaur and now have its head mounted on your wall, maybe you dissected that Hydra to see how it worked. The reason for this was to give players a rush of techs as they went through the Enlightenment, of course.

    ------------------------

    Bottom line, I'm not completely opposed to having something persist. But whatever persists would have to be something that wouldn't magnify the power imbalances created during the Myth Age, and that eliminates a lot of possibilities.
     
  16. Kemystul

    Kemystul Chieftain

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    Ran across something odd.

    In the current version, even If I have the "Manual Specialist Control" button checked my cities will still occasionally move people around and put them in priest slots, it's usually to compensate for a happiness drop. I'm assuming something is overriding the checked box.
     
  17. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    There are a few things that explicitly override that Manual command or that could explain this behavior (which I've also seen):
    > The upgrading/downgrading of a religious building (where it'll automatically de-slot any Priests in the affected building).
    > It might have been the city growing in size and/or you adding a new minor god. I don't think the AI should be altering specialists when either of those happens, but you never know.
    > One other possibility is that I duplicated the logic; at one point I had the Priest allocation logic in two places (a start-of-turn GameEvent and the end-of-active-turn serial Event), and there might still be remnants sitting around. It should only be adjusting the slotting during the start-of-turn GameEvent now.

    I'm still going to improve the AI logic for this a bit more. Right now, for instance, the AI will be willing to use a Priest slot on a Focus that's already hit its cap. Every Priest slot is added to a single list (capped only by the population of each city), and the AI picks from that list when deciding where to place its Priests. What I want to do in the next version is split it into three "priority" lists, based on max level and favor caps. For instance, you get level 1 (Shrine) at 100 Favor, but if the max level is 1, then your local Favor cap is 300. You can get a Shrine to 300/100, at which point it'll stop gaining more. Once you unlock level 2 (which requires 300), the cap raises to 600 (the amount needed for level 3). So the three categories would be:

    HIGH> This city+focus hasn't reached its maximum level yet. Generally a newly founded city, or a new Focus, although this can happen in the early game if you've been gaining techs faster than you accrued Favor. Obviously you want to fill these slots if you can.

    MEDIUM> This city+focus has reached its maximum level, but hasn't hit its Favor cap yet (you've got the 100 needed to get the Shrine, but haven't reached 300 yet).

    LOW> This city+focus has reached its Favor cap. Still useful if you need another +1 Happiness or more global Favor, and priest favor now splits across your cities, but it'd be much lower priority than the above lists.

    Right now there's just one list, and an integral part of it is that a city of size 1-2 can never be chosen for AI Priests, a size 3-4 can only support 1 Priest, and so on. That way the AI doesn't cripple itself. So the way it'd work once I change it is that if the AI decides it needs 7 Priests this turn, it'll check the High list first. It'll start filling those, checking against each city's maximum Priest limit at each time. If it fills all of the available High slots and still needs maybe 3 more, then it'd try to pick three from the Medium list, again checking against population. If it fills the entire Medium list and still has some left, it'd randomly pick some Lows, assuming you still haven't hit the population caps.

    I'll try to get this logic into the next version, and I'll add some debug statements so that people can see the logic the AI uses.

    --------------

    To add to the previous post (because apparently it wasn't long enough!):

    One reason I might hold off on adding a persistant "remnant" effect for religions should be obvious: Gods & Kings' religion system might have its role be exactly that once I merge the two systems. I could add those Statues right now, but it's likely I'd toss them right back out once the expansion is released. If I have some time I might do it anyway, but we'll see.
     
  18. Kemystul

    Kemystul Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    I've also noticed another small bug.

    The event that adds the yield to the priests for 10 turns, doesn't disappear after 10 turns. Got it, added +2 production with lawful, it never disappeared, got the event a few more times, added food, and research, neither of those disappeared either. I'm guessing something with the count-down timer til the bonus expires is broken or not counting down properly.
     
  19. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hmm, that's bad. I know it worked when I first created that Event. It uses a simple SaveUtils logic to store the information, so I'm not sure what could have caused it to stop working. I'll look into it again for the next version.
     
  20. JanusTalaiini

    JanusTalaiini Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    340
    Hi, playing with the current version - I can confirm the "bonus 10 turns priest yield" event is showing up as permanent. Also, the Favor counter on the top bar seems to be stuck - I've been at 3970/9xxx (+102) For many, many turns. Not sure if the actual progress is stuck or if it's just not displaying correctly, but there it is.
     

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