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AI Aggression

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by VCrakeV, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Prince

    Aug 22, 2014
    I started a new game of Civ4 (with BTS and Extra, if that helps), and the AI seemed ridiculously aggressive. They were mostly passive-aggressive, but they had their war as well. They were making ridiculous offers that I couldn't accept (such as a tech for a tech, in which the one they wanted required at least 3x science), and they would get mad after I kept rejecting their offers. On top of that, demands for tribute were very common. I was demanded tribute by a civ the turn after I discovered them. I finally raged quit when 2 civs declared war on me, captured a city of mine, and had over 20 ships on one tile of my coast... all in one turn. The thing is, I did nothing to them. I didn't blockade routes, declare war, demand tribute, attack under cover, or even take over a city with culture. What can I do to lower their aggression?

    And no, none of them were Ghandi. :p
  2. s.bernbaum

    s.bernbaum Mostly lurking

    Dec 2, 2006
    The wilds of Montana
    What is "Extra"? If that is the name of a mod, then the mod may be responsible for some of the aggressive behavior.

    However, the AIs will always want to trade techs with you to their advantage. If you turn them down, that won't make them more upset with you (usually called negative diplomatic points or diplo). If you agree to the trade that will make them give you positive diplo points. When they demand tribute or ask for help, agreeing to do so will give positive diplo, while refusing will give negative diplo. Having open borders will give positive diplo, as will having the same religion. Having a different religion will give negative diplo. Declaring war on their friend gives negative diplo. Being an ally in a war gives positive diplo, even if you never do anything to help during the war. There are other positives and negatives but these give you the basic idea.

    In general, you need to decide who you want to be your friend and who you want to tell to take a hike. Strive for positive diplo with your friends (usually two or three) and regard the others as potential attackers.

    Also having a strong military helps prevent attacks and lets you win if it happens. Having a weak military invites attacks.
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Mar 11, 2008
    Have no idea what "Extra" is?

    Don't know enough about your game, level or the game you are playing to make specific suggestions in a vacuum. As far as I know your diplomacy and understanding of it could be poor. Are you new to the game?

    Anyway, declining "offers" for trades does not result in any negative diplo, although accepting them "might" provide positive diplo. Declining "requests" or "demands" will result in negative diplo. Whether you decline a demand/request or not depends on your situation and relationship with that AI.

    AIs never trade fairly. Their techs are always worth more than yours in trades.. However, keep in mind that they may offer a trade for you tech if they've already partially teched the tech they want, so the disparity may not be as large as you think. There are ways to figure this out if you know what to look for.

    Anyway, I'd need to know much more about how you play the game to make further suggestions. I highly encourage you to spend time in the Strategy & Tips forum as well.

    Oh, and some AIs are, as you probably know, simply much more aggressive or demand-y than others.

    For example, Joao is a pretty swell guy. He's actually often liked by almost all AIs regardless of modifiers or peace-weights, except when religion starts factoring in. He's fairly easy to get pleased early on. However, he will almost always demand something from you early on after you meet him - tech or resource. If you accept his demand - that's it - you pretty much have a friend for the entire game, unless ofc, you want to kill him. Cathy on the other hand is very very demanding and untrustworthy, even if not as aggressive as some other AIs.
  4. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Prince

    Aug 22, 2014
    Extra is a mod that adds a bit of everything: new techs, new leaders, new leader traits, new civs, new civics, new resources, etc.

    I've been playing civ4 for a few months, and civ5 a few months before that.

    I was playing on a large map, with just three AIs, so having two of them suddenly wage war on me was instant rage quit material. We all had one one continent each, and the seas were high, so we didn't get to see each other until I discovered Astronomy.

    I usually play peacefully. The only time I don't is for the sake of a gimmick (for example, "playing as the barbarians"). I'm pretty expansive, but I let my cities grow a little bit before putting their food towards settlers. I usually wonder-rush, so I have one city (my capital) rushing wonders, and other cities doing this and that. New ones work on the necessities: forges, granaries, work boats (if applicable), etc. Older ones might work on health/happiness buildings, wonders (on occasion, to give the capital a break so it can "upgrade"), or settlers, depending on what I feel is more pressing.

    For the most part, I don't do much with the AI. I use to, but when I asked for something, what they wanted in return was not worth it. I find that the AI is too hard beyond Noble, but on Noble or lower, they're usually quite behind in tech, so all I ever asked for were resources. I also rarely accept open boarders; I always had a huge fear of civs marching their units into my territory and tearing me apart from the inside. I will think differently next time! I also thought that tribute demands were like bullying. You know, "give me your money or I'll hit you". I assumed that paying tribute would only encourage the AI to continue demanding, until I have nothing left. I just find it hard to trust, I guess. But if it works, I'll try it.
  5. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

    Aug 23, 2002
    Brian Reynolds put this in SMAC where a faction leader could demand several techs in one turn.
    First the leader will demand one tech and right after you gave it to him/her, he/she could ask 2 or 3 more technologies.
    Refusing would mean vendetta.
    I can't remember this in any of the civ iterations.
  6. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera King

    Sep 24, 2010
    I've never heard of the Mod Extra, so I can't help you with changes made there, but as for BtS I would suggest you take the following measures to gain positive diplo:
    -Open borders
    -Trade resources
    -Adopt religion of Civs you want to please or adopt no religion at all
    -Adopt favorite Civic of Civ you want to please if they are in that Civic at that time
    -Avoid stealing their tiles with your culture
    -Give in to demands when reasonable (always give resource, can cancel after 10 turns)
    -Don't trade techs with enemies of Civs you want to please
    -Do trade techs with Civs you want to please

    Open borders and resource trades are the easiest bonuses to get, shared religion and civics will build over time to be the largest positive diplo bonuses.

    You may also want to learn which Civs will and which will not declare war on you when they are "Pleased" with you. If you reach diplo level "Friendly" you are safe from everyone except Catherine who can be bribed by another Civ to DoW you even then.

    Hover the mouse over the leaders names on the scoreboard to see the details of your diplomatic status with them. Getting diplo right is part of the challenge of the game.

    Two last tips, if you play BtS with the BUG mod you will get a warning when a Civ starts preparing for war, and if you bribe Civs to war against each other they won't have a chance to declare war on you. The BUG mod warning also exists in the base game but it is much harder to see it.

    Good luck!
  7. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

    Jan 15, 2009
    Bristol, England
    If your on separate continents, and only meeting post-Astro then running a different state religion is the most likely primary cause of war. State religions are the largest factors in diplomacy in most games, the difference between running the same state religion as an AI or a different one can be as large as 10 diplomacy points.
    Running a religion that you founded yourself and that nobody else is running, is like putting a lightening rod on your head and running around in a storm.
    When war is declared between two civs with an Open Borders agreement any units within the enemies borders will be moved outside of them. By not opening borders all you are really achieving is avoiding both easy diplo points and a substantial income boost from trade routes.
  8. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Prince

    Aug 22, 2014
    Thanks guys! Now that I know how open borders work, my game will be a lot better. It also helps to know about diplomacy. Creating war and watching from the sidelines sounds like a fun idea.

    Oh, and happy holidays, guys! :D
  9. nfw

    nfw King

    Aug 31, 2010
    Turning down a trade request (when both sides put something on the table) never incur the wrath of the AI; turning down a demand will get you a demerit.

    The trade system in the game is really dumb, since you have no idea if it's a good deal or not. Eg. you can get an offer: fishing for alphabets, it could very well be a fair offer because the AI is only a few turns from finishing it, but you don't know so you think it's a crap deal. The game should let you trade raw beakers instead.
  10. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

    Sep 6, 2011
    You need to improve your diplo and probably have to keep your cities smaller and stretched out on more land. AI is very unlikely to declare war at pleased, most AIs cannot even DoW at pleased, and if you got only little population on much territory, your empire is very unattractive for the AI.
  11. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

    Nov 16, 2009
    AIs often act like that when you seem like a civilization that is easy to defeat to them. Larger populations, better technologies and larger stacks often scare off AI aggression.
  12. Hornakhtyotef

    Hornakhtyotef Chieftain

    Jul 9, 2014
    From what I see on the official mod thread for "Extra", it doesn't seem to include K-mod, which is not only a major overhaul of the AI logics, but also been ncluded in many mods as third party feature.
    My guess is Extra only gathers features with no in-depth changes in the mechanics of the game.
    Hence, the AI isn't overly aggressive, but is the one from the original BTS. That one can be scared off if one possesses sufficient power rating, but still, many AIs require you to be twice stronger than them to entirely make them recoil from even thinking attacking. I'm saying that out of experience (which can be high speculation) but code-wise.

    Work on producing units, better diplomatic relationships or prepare arms for the worst. Usually, on the regular BTS architecture, the AI is rather manipulable.

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