AI attitude

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
So to prevent a ruined rep, never accept a lump sum, tech, or map when you sell resources.

Just to make sure people understand this correctly:

You can accept lump sum, techs, or maps IF they are also paying you gpt (or giving you a resource) in that deal.

Example:
Instead of selling horses for 500 gold and their world map, sell it for world map, 480 gold, and 1 gold/turn. That 1 gold/turn ensures that they are also taking responsibility of making sure the deal is held for the full 20 turns.

 

[hotrod0823]

How are military alliances, MPP's and ROPs effected?

In a recent game I was warring with Carthage and brought the Arabs into the war with them giving a luxury in the deal, recieving nothing except the alliance in return.

It was a race to capture the last Carthage city and I defeated the last NuMerc captured the city. This ended the alliance 5 turns early and the attitude with the Arabs went from cautious to annoyed IIRC. I don't recall if I was shut out from gpt deals later because they were the next target . Just wondering for future games.

Hotrod

One more thing: In GOTM21 I had a lux for tech deal go south. I traded incense for Lit to a civ connected only by a harbor. 3 turns into the deal I noticed an extra incence I didn't have and turns out the road from the harbor town to the capital was pillaged. I was giving the 20 turn lux for hard goods and was branded for the rest of the game. I was unable to get techs on credit and greatly effected my tech pace. NOW having read this if I had accepted 1gpt, and Lit for my lux I would've not had the black mark for the entire game?

 

[Bamspeedy]

How are military alliances, MPP's and ROPs effected?

I haven't studied these yet. My tests only had 1AI.

It was a race to capture the last Carthage city and I defeated the last NuMerc captured the city. This ended the alliance 5 turns early and the attitude with the Arabs went from cautious to annoyed IIRC. I don't recall if I was shut out from gpt deals later because they were the next target

If you did get the lesser of the attitude hits (+1), they would still go from cautious (0) to annoyed (+1). The bigger attitude hit, would be annoyed (+4), so you can't really tell just by looking at the attitude rank, unless a civ went from the low end of the polite range (-3, -2 or -1) to annoyed (+1, +2, +3). If you finished the game and still have some saves around, could you try loading some old saves and test if you can still make deals or not? I'd be curious to get verification on what happens. Do you remember what was included in the alliance deal?

I was giving the 20 turn lux for hard goods and was branded for the rest of the game. I was unable to get techs on credit and greatly effected my tech pace. NOW having read this if I had accepted 1gpt, and Lit for my lux I would've not had the black mark for the entire game?

That is what my initial tests are showing. If anyone can find examples of where this doesn't work, please let me know.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

can anyone explain me why:

i start with opponents annoyed (on deity, logical)
- i give them a tech for free, they are polity
- i do nothing except for more trades, no war, nothing military, new governements arent even invented yet by anyone (its 3000BC)
-the get back to anoyed again.

seems there are either more negative things, or the gifts are temporary instead of permanent like stated.

Is this all changed in some patch or anything?

 

[CellarDweller22]

Because I felt like this was a legitimate question on page 6 (posted in July), I thought I would repost it:

Originally posted by WillJ:

Is it known exactly how much attitude matters? Obviously it matters with the UN, and I'm sure an annoyed civ won't make as good of a deal in a trade as a gracious civ will, but how much of a difference? If you're not worried about a diplomatic victory, is attitude worth worrying a whole lot about? Is an annoyed civ more likely to declare war on you than a polite civ? I'm sure the power comparison matters more, right? What about the AI accepting/declining culture flips of your cities (I know that they sometimes actually decline)? Does attitude matter with that?

How much DOES rep matter? Are trades with a gracious civ any more to the human's benefit than trades with annoyed civs?

Great work here!

-- From The Cellar

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by CellarDweller22
Because I felt like this was a legitimate question on page 6 (posted in July), I thought I would repost it:

<SNIP>

How much DOES rep matter? Are trades with a gracious civ any more to the human's benefit than trades with annoyed civs?

Great work here!
-- From The Cellar

For attitude (not rep!) dependent trade revenues/investments, take a look at Zwingli's study.

 

[CellarDweller22]

Great thread! Thanks, Grille!

So..... in all your spare time, do you guys actually get to PLAY the game??

-- From The Cellar

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by WackenOpenAir
can anyone explain me why:

i start with opponents annoyed (on deity, logical)
- i give them a tech for free, they are polity
- i do nothing except for more trades, no war, nothing military, new governements arent even invented yet by anyone (its 3000BC)
-the get back to anoyed again.

seems there are either more negative things, or the gifts are temporary instead of permanent like stated.

Is this all changed in some patch or anything?

Yes, gifts are temporary. I had changed this in my first post, but I think the War Academy might still say this is permanent (I can't edit the War Academy, only Thunderfall can). Gifts de-value at the rate of 10 gold/turn. So if you give them 1000 gold, they will stay at the maximum happiness (-10) for 90 turns, then lose 1 point each turn for 10 more turns so that after 100 turns the 1000 gold is completely forgotten.

The starting techs aren't worth much (100 gold or so), so that usually won't keep them polite for very long.

 

[binyo66]

Very good thread!

Bamspeedy I have 2 questions for you (or anybody) :

1. I don't like using ICBMs, but if they use them first to attack my cities, I usually just launch my ICBMs to theirs. Is that effecting my rep ?

2.I am as Roman Demo. and have culture leads, and the most powerful civ, and owner of the second large continent. Before the war, every civs were polite (I trades luxs, and uranium to them), and having ROP with every civs (GR, UK, US, Aztec, and Iraq).
I need uranium which I trade with US for 190 gpt.
Then I signed MPP with GR (the most powerful civ on the main island), followed by UK. GR and UK become cratious. GR had MPP with US (the 3rd strongest). Then everything screwed up, UK attacked US. The status was :
I was at war with Iraq, Aztec and US.
GR was at war with Iraq, Aztec, and UK.
Iraq and Aztec was at war with every civs.
What I saw on the Foreign Screen, Iraq, Aztec and US were cautious. GR and UK were still cratious.
The first turn after the war, Iraq and Aztec landed some units to my mainland, and destroyed my rails. So I killed them.
The foreign Screen showed Iraq and Aztec were furious.
In couple turned I landed in the main continents around 60 MA/MI and 4 Armies supported by carriers and bombers, destroyed Aztec, but didn't razed any city (I always took the city when the city size was at most 6, bombard them, so no much resistants). But still could not find uranium.
I don't want to make war with GR, at least not in short turns (He has more ICBMs than me, and I couldn't make it anymore, SDI still couple turns to go).
Already arround 8 turns, and I noted:
GR never attacks UK (which force me to declare war on GR).
US never attacks me (which force GR to declare war on US),
and I didn't want to attack US either (but UK doesn't seem to bother, he keeps attacking GR, but luckily not in GR areas). I need US's uranium, is there anything I could do to trade uranium with US without my rep hit (until now, US still cautious to me)?
3. Just for my preparations, I place bunch of MA/MIs next to GR cities which has ICBM. If either one (GR or Me) declared war each other, do I get rep lost because of putting my units in GR territory?

 

[Bamspeedy]

3. Just for my preparations, I place bunch of MA/MIs next to GR cities which has ICBM. If either one (GR or Me) declared war each other, do I get rep lost because of putting my units in GR territory?

If YOU declare war (or you are forced to declare war because of a MPP), then you get the rep hit for having units in their territory.

If they declare war (or they are forced to declare war on you because of a MPP), then there is no rep hit for you.

MPPs are tricky, because someone else could screw up your rep for you by triggering a MPP while you happen to have 1 unit in somebody's territory.

 

[Sarevok]

I have always been angry at this rep system...

 

[CaptainCivFreak]

No wonder they all hate me... I always used privateers & nukes... ha ha...

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Do you know the effects of giving them a city?

 

[Beamup]

If you look a ways up earlier in the discussion, it's just like any other gift. Precise value unknown, IIRC, but easily enough to get you the maximum bonus.

 

[StinkBait]

would giving an AI 100gp/turn count as a one time gift or would it's effects last the 20 turns?

BTW this is one of the best articles I've read on Civ3 - really learned a lot. Thanks!

 

[USC]

What an insanely detailed article! ;-)

 

[Caesar_Augustus]

+1 to +3 for using privateers (the victim adds on the penalty).

Does the penalty come from just building them, or do I have to actively attack the AI to get an attitude hit?

What if the AI attacks the Privateer? Does that make a difference?

 

[Bruindane]

Is it plausibe that an enemy civ (in a declared war) could vote in your favor to become Secretary General?

To get someone's vote at the UN it is necessary to have them "polite". Barely polite (at -1) is sufficient. But if they're at zero (cautious) or worse they will abstain rather than vote for you. I'm not sure what the rule is if a Civ is polite to two or more candidates. I think it is a fairly safe bet that they vote for the one they have the best relations with.

Assuming war is not an instant disqualifier, can you improve an enemy civ's attitude to polite?

 

[anarres]

Nope. AFAIK the best you can get at war is annoyed, which you can often get after a very long "cold" war (no shots fired).

 

[Hygro]

I've had cautious multiple times, and the screenshots to prove it (I think). I've heard of polite.