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AI cheating again

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by DarkxL0rd, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. DarkxL0rd

    DarkxL0rd Warlord

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    ok so im one turn away from completing the genesis. i click the counter and it says i cant continue. i have the eyes and ears so i know that the only other person who has commune with nature just finished researching it one turn before my current turn. so in essence, beeri bawl researched commune with nature and on the next turn completed the genesis. i had a higher score than him so you'd think i'd win the tie if we finished on the same turn. (granted he could build it in one turn.) i reloaded a few turns before waited till my genesis was one turn from being done, opened up world builder and sure enough, he needs 24 turns to build it. how is he beating me? also what determines who wins a tie?
     
  2. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    I believe the player always wins a tie.
     
  3. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    I don't think the Civ4 AI cheats in that way, you're just being bitter.

    Does Beeri bawl have a lot of free engineers from golden hammers generating lots of GE?
     
  4. Skyre Noktis

    Skyre Noktis Warlord

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    Post a save and people can have a look to see what's really happening. AFAIK, the AI doesn't have anything that lets it cheat this way, and similar threads I've seen for vanilla/BTS have always had other explanations.
     
  5. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    It's impossible for the AI to cheat anyway. Unless you invent a way that allows it to load save games or open worldbuilder. Would be fun if someone writes something like this :D
     
  6. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    That entirely depends on how you define cheating.
     
  7. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    cheating implies breaking rules. The AI cannot break the rules the game gives it. Thus the AI does not cheat :p
     
  8. Inkling

    Inkling Warlord

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    I would define cheating as not playing by the same rules. Which while somewhat neccessary to provide an adequate difficulty setting for the player, can be taken way too far, and is still cheating in my book.

    when the AI knows exactly how many troops i have, where they are, where my cities are, and launches a surprise attack at my weakest point without so much as scouting my border. i'm gonna call that cheating.

    GE = Great Engineers? I thought genesis was a ritual and rituals couldn't be rushed...
     
  9. blade117

    blade117 The Unburnt

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    Well, it is a computer, so...
     
  10. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    The AI isn't supposed to play by the same rules :D I think you wouldn't like the turn times if every AI player takes as much time to finish his turn as a typical human player needs. ;)
     
  11. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Then all players cheat because different nations have different rules. You can't feast as Lanun or build pirate coves by Hippus.

    Again, post a save. AI doesn't cheat, it uses predefined rules which are set by player (XML, python, SDK, game options, difficulty) and it cannot use anything else.

    This is what I define as cheating for my single player games :D.
     
  12. kumquatelvis

    kumquatelvis Prince

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    The AI plays with a handicap (as a bonus, not a penalty). It's like pre-approved cheating.
     
  13. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Can rituals be hurry-rushed? If so, I'm wondering if Beeri had a large sum of gold saved up, then rushed Genesis.

    As far as determining ties, there are no ties-ever. Civilization(and computers in general) always run in a step-by-step process. It is physically impossible for two players to complete the same building at the same time. Whoever gets their turn first will complete the wonder first; this is usually the player.
     
  14. DarkxL0rd

    DarkxL0rd Warlord

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    i appreciate everyone telling me how i am cheating. it really helps. the only reason i opened world builder was to see what was going on, not to change things for my benefit as i thought players won ties... as for the question... rituals cant be rushed with gold or engineers(i woulda done so seeing how i had 2 engineers and running guilds). i would love to post a save game, how is that done.
     
  15. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

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    I agree, my understanding is that rituals cannot be rushed. However, this behhavior is very odd.

    Most of the time that this kind of behavior has been reported it was discovered that the wonder/ritual in question was mostly pre-built and switched, but the facts ehre don't seem to support that cause in this case.

    So, to be clear:

    Are you playing with .41g?
    Are you playing 'base' FfH
    Are you sure someone else didn't complete the ritual? I'm pretty sure that 'the Eyes and Ears' only tells you what people you have open borders with are doing, but could the ritual have been completed by a power on another continent or someone you don't see? My instincts tell me that this is indeed what has happened.

    Otherwise, I can't understand what is happening here.

    Best wishes,

    Breunor
     
  16. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Ok, GE can't rush rituals but what about Golden Hammers? Could a Golden Hammer carrying unit have died upon that tile that turn? Beeri Bawl already has Life mana, does he have Nature as well?

    Because insta-building wonders is not one of the ways the Civ 4 AI cheats.
     
  17. Jenaelha

    Jenaelha fields of Elanor

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    Go to your saved games folder and insert the file into a post with the attachment icon (littel paperclip).
    The saved games folder is accessible through a shortcut ("civ4saves") in the BTS main folder.

    BTW, the biggest cheat I'm angry at is how the AI "knows" when I'm about to complete a wonder/ritual (in your case). What is this about? It happens so often, Civ4 must be allowing an AI to rush the build (probably by legitimate ways) to beat me by a turn. ARRRGHHH This seems to be the key factor for their "cheating" and I'm not convinced that it is fair.

    Also, What would be a legitimate way to rush a ritual?
     
  18. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    maybe he ordered hella slaves and used them?
     
  19. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Golden Hammers can't rush things...
     
  20. cr0ws

    cr0ws Prince

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    I've always had the impression Civ 4 AI cheated from first weak of play, I think it's because it's coded in satanic logic (and everyone knows satan doesn't play by the rules:mad:). It's funny because I've played Call To Power for a long time and even though the AI was retard-dumb it never felt like it cheated (even when given positive handicaps). Civ 4 on the other hand....I dunno.

    I guess the only way to make sure the AI doesn't cheat is play it with humans or hotseat with yourself. It's why I never feel guilty giving myself an extra great engineer or merchant with world builder in single player. :lol:
     

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