KillingMeSoftly
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 279
Hey guys,
This is my first post after lurking for about a month. I first bought Civ5 about a month ago after reading about the last big patch. Originally I heard Civ5 was terrible but when I heard all the changes I decided to buy (the Steam summer sale helped seal the deal, too).
Reading posts on these forums I've seen a lot of people bash and rant against the Diplomacy system and how flawed, pointless, and terrible it is. I had to agree with them for a while as I couldn't make heads or tails; AI Civs would constantly declare war on me and continually denounce me all game. Eventually I got more accustomed to the game and soaked in all the wonderful info here, and soon I discovered the problem: it's not really the game, but me and how I play.
Basically, if you act inconsiderately to other civilizations and play like a bully, they're not going to like you. It's actually quite realistic in that sense; they pay close attention to what you do and how you act, and your relationships with other civilizations. I wasn't doing the same and always kind of did my own thing, how I wanted to, never thinking of the consequences.
I would frequently accept many Declarations of Friendship thinking that this is the way to good diplomacy and relations -- but in fact it's really a trap when I was accepting them indiscriminately. You will quickly begin to rack up a list of AIs that don't like you because you're becoming buddy-buddy with their enemies, and before long very few will like you at all because you never were really friends with anyone.
Once I begun to pay close attention to the way the AI handles itself, who they make friends with, and who they make enemies with... Diplomacy became much easier to handle for me. I began to accept much fewer, if any at all, DoFs -- and would only accept them under a few circumstances: they are not enemies with anyone I'm not already enemies with, and they're not an expansionist civilization that will be declaring war on people. This really helped a lot.
I also started not to just expand everywhere and be more selective of where I settle. Plopping a city next to a neighbour is a sure-fire way to create some tension... particularly if you cut them off and don't give them anywhere else to settle that's at least decent. They will begin to covet your lands, giving you a diplomatic penalty. That alone is enough to make them Guarded after a little while. If they're militarily stronger than you it won't be long before they decide to take the land they see as theirs. So be more careful where you settle and be mindful to leave the AI some breathing room. Buying up a lot of tiles near the AI's border, if they could work them by their city, is another way to raise tension.
The computer can also covet your wonders if you beat them to building one they were constructing. I've also been more selective in which wonders I build and usually leave several for the computer to build. This will not only save you the diplomatic penalty for having wonders the AI wanted-- but save you a lot of hammers when you eventually take these wonders from them.
Purely defensive wars are safe to wage and will almost never incur a diplomatic penalty; so long as you only destroy an AI Civ's units and don't take their cities. If you take/raze some of their cities they will remember the war and dislike you. But if your units only fight it out for a while until peace, they will hold no hard feelings. However declaring wars will net you a penalty with everyone (warmonger) after a few, even if you declare against City-States that have no protectors/allies. Similarly wiping out a civilization completely will quickly give you the warmonger penalty, so it's best to leave them a minor city somewhere.
I also find trading frequently to help your relations, so don't hesitate to sell luxury and strategy resources you don't need. I don't worry much about selling iron/horses/oil because any units they build with those resources will become much weaker when they don't have that resource anymore. I don't trade coal, aluminum, or uranium though because they can construct buildings (or nukes) that continue to operate at full strength (when they no longer have that resource). Also if you want a strong relationship with an AI Civ you should give them luxury resources/gold when they come asking for them; it gives you a positive diplomacy modifier. They will usually only ask for them if you have a Declaration of Friendship together, though!
Anyway, that's my observations on the Diplomacy system in Civ5. I find if I act poorly to my neighbours my actions will foster poor relations, while if I pay attention and act smartly in the diplomatic arena, it pays off.
Ultimately we all need to realize wars can and will happen, and friendly civilizations can and will backstab you. Pay special attention to expansionist civilizations like Russia, Mongolia, America, France, etc. because these are the most likely wanting to expand their borders through conquest. King difficulty (what I play on) has taught me to keep a strong military always, otherwise I start to look like a juicy target for such expansionists. Essentially; be prepared, don't be surprised. "If you want peace, prepare for war."
You can always monitor your positive, neutral, and negative diplomatic modifiers with another civilization by hovering your mouse cursor over their "emotion state" (Friendly, guarded, hostile, etc). This helps a lot to keep tabs.
Thoughts?
This is my first post after lurking for about a month. I first bought Civ5 about a month ago after reading about the last big patch. Originally I heard Civ5 was terrible but when I heard all the changes I decided to buy (the Steam summer sale helped seal the deal, too).
Reading posts on these forums I've seen a lot of people bash and rant against the Diplomacy system and how flawed, pointless, and terrible it is. I had to agree with them for a while as I couldn't make heads or tails; AI Civs would constantly declare war on me and continually denounce me all game. Eventually I got more accustomed to the game and soaked in all the wonderful info here, and soon I discovered the problem: it's not really the game, but me and how I play.
Basically, if you act inconsiderately to other civilizations and play like a bully, they're not going to like you. It's actually quite realistic in that sense; they pay close attention to what you do and how you act, and your relationships with other civilizations. I wasn't doing the same and always kind of did my own thing, how I wanted to, never thinking of the consequences.
I would frequently accept many Declarations of Friendship thinking that this is the way to good diplomacy and relations -- but in fact it's really a trap when I was accepting them indiscriminately. You will quickly begin to rack up a list of AIs that don't like you because you're becoming buddy-buddy with their enemies, and before long very few will like you at all because you never were really friends with anyone.
Once I begun to pay close attention to the way the AI handles itself, who they make friends with, and who they make enemies with... Diplomacy became much easier to handle for me. I began to accept much fewer, if any at all, DoFs -- and would only accept them under a few circumstances: they are not enemies with anyone I'm not already enemies with, and they're not an expansionist civilization that will be declaring war on people. This really helped a lot.
I also started not to just expand everywhere and be more selective of where I settle. Plopping a city next to a neighbour is a sure-fire way to create some tension... particularly if you cut them off and don't give them anywhere else to settle that's at least decent. They will begin to covet your lands, giving you a diplomatic penalty. That alone is enough to make them Guarded after a little while. If they're militarily stronger than you it won't be long before they decide to take the land they see as theirs. So be more careful where you settle and be mindful to leave the AI some breathing room. Buying up a lot of tiles near the AI's border, if they could work them by their city, is another way to raise tension.
The computer can also covet your wonders if you beat them to building one they were constructing. I've also been more selective in which wonders I build and usually leave several for the computer to build. This will not only save you the diplomatic penalty for having wonders the AI wanted-- but save you a lot of hammers when you eventually take these wonders from them.
Purely defensive wars are safe to wage and will almost never incur a diplomatic penalty; so long as you only destroy an AI Civ's units and don't take their cities. If you take/raze some of their cities they will remember the war and dislike you. But if your units only fight it out for a while until peace, they will hold no hard feelings. However declaring wars will net you a penalty with everyone (warmonger) after a few, even if you declare against City-States that have no protectors/allies. Similarly wiping out a civilization completely will quickly give you the warmonger penalty, so it's best to leave them a minor city somewhere.
I also find trading frequently to help your relations, so don't hesitate to sell luxury and strategy resources you don't need. I don't worry much about selling iron/horses/oil because any units they build with those resources will become much weaker when they don't have that resource anymore. I don't trade coal, aluminum, or uranium though because they can construct buildings (or nukes) that continue to operate at full strength (when they no longer have that resource). Also if you want a strong relationship with an AI Civ you should give them luxury resources/gold when they come asking for them; it gives you a positive diplomacy modifier. They will usually only ask for them if you have a Declaration of Friendship together, though!
Anyway, that's my observations on the Diplomacy system in Civ5. I find if I act poorly to my neighbours my actions will foster poor relations, while if I pay attention and act smartly in the diplomatic arena, it pays off.
Ultimately we all need to realize wars can and will happen, and friendly civilizations can and will backstab you. Pay special attention to expansionist civilizations like Russia, Mongolia, America, France, etc. because these are the most likely wanting to expand their borders through conquest. King difficulty (what I play on) has taught me to keep a strong military always, otherwise I start to look like a juicy target for such expansionists. Essentially; be prepared, don't be surprised. "If you want peace, prepare for war."
You can always monitor your positive, neutral, and negative diplomatic modifiers with another civilization by hovering your mouse cursor over their "emotion state" (Friendly, guarded, hostile, etc). This helps a lot to keep tabs.
Thoughts?
