AI losing to barbarians

[99wattr89]

I was playing the Earth 18 civs map today and the barbarian activity seemed really out of the ordinary.

Each civ had about 3 cities, with those that got good starts building more settlers, when I started getting messages that AI cities were being captured by barbarians, something that I've never seen happen to the AI on other maps.

I thought nothing of it - I was England so I had nothing to worry about - until I got a message that the mongolian civ had been destroyed by the barbarians. At that point I was amazed that Ghengis had been stupid enough to get destroyed like that, leaving all of Asia to the Chinese and Russians.

But then just a few turns later Hatshepsut lost Cairo to the barbarians, and then the very next turn Mansa Musa went down too, leaving all of Africa to Saladin.

Until he got wiped out as well.

Just as I was going into the worldbuilder to try to figure out what was going on I got a message that Japan had fallen as well, and india and persia were down to just their capitals.

So effectively China and Russia had all of Africa and Asia to themselves.

After that I decided to just quit and start afresh.


Has anything like that ever happened to you? It was pretty surreal.

 

[Xellos-_^]

did you had raging barb on?

 

[Malchar]

I've seen a single AI get wiped out by barbarians during a regular game, but I've never seen multiple AI's having so much trouble. In my game, the barbarians ended up with a surprisingly historic barbarian Rome around level 10 at year zero.

 

[99wattr89]

did you had raging barb on?

No, it's a scenario so you don't get that option.

@Malchar: Yeah, I wasn't that surprised to see one AI go down, but things just got crazy.

 

[Matthew5117]

I would have kept playing! That would have been awesome! Superpowers fighting for dominace!

 

[LegionSteve]

Are you playing on marathon speed? I don't think it scales properly to speed, e.g. they still have the same chance to appear per turn, while it takes x2 turns for Civs to build a defender and x3 turns to build Walls. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

 

[Malachi256]

Are you playing on marathon speed? I don't think it scales properly to speed, e.g. they still have the same chance to appear per turn, while it takes x2 turns for Civs to build a defender and x3 turns to build Walls. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

No official confirmation, but I can offer some anecdotal support.

I play on marathon and have had a couple maps with lots of empty space. I eventually quit because my entire economy was focused on stopping the invaders - it was a constant flow of units, absolutely ridiculous. It was that game where I decided that the Great Wall was a deal-breaker on maps like that.

 

[FlexyP]

Were they holding the cities or just burning them? Would have been interesting if they held them would make for a very rough time for Russia and China to grow.

 

[sydhe]

I would have kept playing just to see what the world looked like with all those civs gone.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Were they holding the cities or just burning them? Would have been interesting if they held them would make for a very rough time for Russia and China to grow.

Barbs will hold cities unless they've never grown past pop 1, where they're auto-razed. My guess is a good bit of them were held (definitely the capitols). Between that and the barb cities cropping up, most lower difficulty AIs will struggle a lot.

 

[smackthewise]

Would you be able to post a save? i'd like to see this in WB.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Interesting. My only ever diety wins were Huge/Marathon/ Raging Barbs/fewer than default # of civs. It was an attempt to see how hard the game could be made. It was overkill when I could get a corner start with metal. The barbs beat the other civs before I got close enough to try. I understand barbs don't scale properly on marathon, and more empty space spawns more barbs.

 

[spacely]

What really surprises me about you story is that japan got wiped out by Barbs. They have such a small strip of land that fogbusting it shouldn't have been to hard. I suppose they could be dropping them off with galleys but still...

 

[99wattr89]

I would have kept playing! That would have been awesome! Superpowers fighting for dominace!

Heh, awesome, except that I was bottled up in western Europe by Spain and France.

Are you playing on marathon speed? I don't think it scales properly to speed, e.g. they still have the same chance to appear per turn, while it takes x2 turns for Civs to build a defender and x3 turns to build Walls. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

I'd be surprised if barbarians really don't scale, but it would explain it - I was playing Marathon.

Were they holding the cities or just burning them? Would have been interesting if they held them would make for a very rough time for Russia and China to grow.

They held every single city that I had actually found. They probably razed a few newer ones that I hadn't come across.

Barbs will hold cities unless they've never grown past pop 1, where they're auto-razed. My guess is a good bit of them were held (definitely the capitols). Between that and the barb cities cropping up, most lower difficulty AIs will struggle a lot.

Ah, but the AI was on Deity. Since the starting techs and units is preset on Earth 18 that's not as big a deal a you might imagine, but a deity level AI still shouldn't lose to barbarians so many times in one game.

Would you be able to post a save? i'd like to see this in WB.

Sorry, I didn't save it.
Just imagine Earth 18 with the civs I mentioned overwhelemed by barbarians. ;D

What really surprises me about you story is that japan got wiped out by Barbs. They have such a small strip of land that fogbusting it shouldn't have been to hard. I suppose they could be dropping them off with galleys but still...

I know!

When everyone I'd met had at least 3 cities (that I knew of), how could Japan manage to lose like that?

Galleys landing troops could work, but I don't think I've ever seen barbarians do that.

Maybe the Japanese just settled really wierdly and ended up with an unrevealed tile that spawned a barbarian city?

 

[GeoffWatson]

Maybe a few of the random events that create barbarian hordes happened?

Geoff.

 

[99wattr89]

Maybe a few of the random events that create barbarian hordes happened?

Geoff.

I thought at first that Ghengis had lost to an uprising, but I looked back at the event list, and I didn't notice any uprisings all game, before or after.

They could have happened a longtime before and just taken ages to overwhelm the AI, but given that uprisings use the 'Lemming' setting that would be surprising, and wouldn't really explain so many civs being destroyed so quickly.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ah, but the AI was on Deity. Since the starting techs and units is preset on Earth 18 that's not as big a deal a you might imagine, but a deity level AI still shouldn't lose to barbarians so many times in one game.

Actually that about explains it.

Deity barbs are vicious. If you're skilled and understand the barb spawn mechanics it's possible for human players to beat them with just warriors for a lot of standard map starts. Turn the size up and the speed down and it's impossible with warriors. You have to use archers and even then you'll have to position them well or get the great wall.

But scenarios are different from normal games. Your AIs did not get the extra starting techs, droves of starting archers + scouts, or their extra starting worker and settler. However, the barbs were not weakened nearly so much as the AI.

This created an imbalance, where the deity AI didn't get its precious starting bonuses (likely starting with warriors only) but the barbs retained their spawn rate.

In the wide open spaces of a huge civ, the AI using standard escort #'s with warriors instead of archers on deity is fatal. Of course they died.

 

[Patak]

I play raging barbarians in each game (marathon speed, huge map) and usualy barbarians bust one AI player per game. This is odd.

 

[99wattr89]

Actually that about explains it.

Deity barbs are vicious. If you're skilled and understand the barb spawn mechanics it's possible for human players to beat them with just warriors for a lot of standard map starts. Turn the size up and the speed down and it's impossible with warriors. You have to use archers and even then you'll have to position them well or get the great wall.

But scenarios are different from normal games. Your AIs did not get the extra starting techs, droves of starting archers + scouts, or their extra starting worker and settler. However, the barbs were not weakened nearly so much as the AI.

This created an imbalance, where the deity AI didn't get its precious starting bonuses (likely starting with warriors only) but the barbs retained their spawn rate.

In the wide open spaces of a huge civ, the AI using standard escort #'s with warriors instead of archers on deity is fatal. Of course they died.

Hmm, well, it hasn't happened on any Earth 18 game with the same settings before or since, but it des help explain it - I guess the barbarians had a run of luck which, combined with the lach of defence from the AI, explains it.

From now on I'll give the AIs Hunting and Archery before I start the game. (By editing the scenario file.)

Playing Earth 18 with half the civs gone before I even meet them isn't as much fun.