AI Overgenerous in stopping war?

[TigrisJK]

I think this may be something to look into, or a very, very exploitable bug... maybe someone's already found this and I just haven't done a search for it...

BUT nonetheless:

It seems the moment you start suing for peace, especially if the AI attacked you first but failed to take a single city... you can through dialogue take most everything they have...

Sometimes even all their cities but their capital.

I've found that if I propose a peace treaty and a whole TON of things from their side, and none from mine, and then hit "Let's bury the hatchet" the AI will almost always give me near everything I want, and maybe even a few cities. Or more.

Though cities are a pain in the arse, since they come undefended, undeveloped, and isolated from your main empire in *most* cases.

Unless, of course, you looked at the map before suing for peace.

Anyone else tried this? I suggested it to a friend in a Direct IP game and he tried it most times with quite a bit of success.

I've completely bankrupted and isolated civs this way, leaving their capitals with it's ridiculously huge army (since their units all moved to their territory after taking their towns by diplomacy) for when their army becomes old and outdated compared to mine.

It's completely cheap, but it provides a really nice advantage and can easily push you into the first place slot if you play your cards and your wars right.

 

[Stuporstar]

I think the main question is, is this cheating? It's not something I want to give in to, because I assume it will be taken care of when the patch comes along. I don't like to get used to obvious and overpowerful exploits such as this one.

 

[TigrisJK]

I personally think it certainly IS cheating. It certainly FEELS like cheating... but since I know it, I can't stay away from it. Hency my preference to play human players. They provide more sport without THEM having to cheat either (I'm referring to handicaps in favour of the AI at higher difficulties, which I like as a challenge, but doesn't seem... real enough) and I definately can't just take all their cities. =) Unfortunately I hate Gamespy and I have too much to do what with University and all the only people I play with are friends I know, since they're the only people with similar schedules, when we're not all out getting trashed.

And friends I know... I know their personalities all too well. I like randomness... knowing that a friend is going to betray you just cause he's an ass is a little bit too much foreshadowing. =)

I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed it, and I'm sure with thousands of people having bought the game that it must've been noticed by someone... and whether anyone knew whether it would be fixed... hopefully without breaking the rest of the options of surrender!

 

[scarl]

I read about this exploit yesterday and tried it out. After an unsuccessful war against me, The french came and proposed peace, But ONLY peace, it tried to get just 1 gp, but even that they refused.

This bring up a simple question: What difficulty level are you playing?

 

[LeConquerant]

i have seen the AI do something strange.

Aztecs declared war on me, and though I proposed peace several times they refused. They came to my borders to attack, I was clearly unable to strike back.

They came with lower tech units (macemen, chariots vs my rifflemen), but I was outnumered (3 to 40). Their first wave of 10+ units crashed and did not take one of the rifflemen out.

To my surprise (I was expecting the worst from the next turn), they proposed peace + money + money per turn + world map, despite the 30+ units still outside my walls...

So I believe there are modifiers based on the last battles, which certainly influence the diplomaty. So two different things:
-from a battle perspective, that makes it very realistic: you won't go negociate and hope for a good outcome if you have just lost a battle... plus I was playing as a Regent, and that must count in the diplomaty.
-from a negociation perspective, it is not very convincing: if you've just been proposed a balanced peace treaty and you refused it, you are not going to beg for peace and put generous tributes on the table just afterwards: a human player would certainly start with 'well, I may reconsider your last proposition'...

 

[TigrisJK]

I'm playing Noble or Prince. Frankly speaking, LeConquerant's view seems about right...

To scarl:
How did you go about it? My friend wasn't able to pull it off at first either... You don't let THEM propose anything. You put everything you want on the table FIRST, then hit "Let's bury the hatchet." If it doesn't work, take off a city, try again.

It hasn't ever failed to work for me. Sometimes I might not get all the enemy's cities, but I'm almost guaranteed at least one or two, especially the small puny maintenance sucking ones (but perhaps in good strategic positions for me). And I always get all their gold, their maps, and their techs.

It's worked across two copies of Civ IV, both with myself and my friend.

Hitting the first "Would you accept this deal" never works the same as "Let's bury the hatchet"... they typically refuse EVERYTHING.

 

[pvc]

i found the same thing but i definately sure this is a bug.

at least the way it works for me is the following:

you go talk to an enemy and propose a trade, then you put stuff up in the trade and in stead of asking if hey accept the deal you ask "what is your price for peace (or some thing along those lines). this will give you a pop up saying only one side can offer gifts or something, if you click ok, the same deal is still there and the AI will accept it always (even if you ask all his cities tech and gold when your on the losing side of the war) thus definately a bug

also if you haggle after there is this ' quite odd' accepting deal the AI wont accept it anymore (you have to do the "whats the price for peace thing again")

temping to abuse but it really is cheating, so i dont do it (tho sometimes i'm really tempted).

(lol wonder if this would work in mp? proolly not, but would been devastating else)

 

[suspendinlight]

After using this several times, I think this must be a bug of some kind. I have been taking cities even if they are half way around the world and just gifting them to allies, which seems to be the best option for my already huge empire. I hope this will be addressed in a patch b/c I don't know how much is really "fair" to take from the AI.

 

[baberg]

I just made a post about this very thing in the Bug Report forums.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137535

 

[warpstorm]

It's a known bug. Don't expect this to work after the first patch.