AI site digs

[ElliotS]

I've noticed that I don't think the AI has ever NOT stolen my dig sites. They've never made landmarks. They never choose not to dig. They're jerks, even my 'closest friends'.

Am I experiencing confirmation bias? Does the AI have the ability to do this, or is it disabled as 'non-human' behavior or something?

 

[Deadstarre]

I can biasedly confirm the same experience

 

[Txurce]

I've noticed that I don't think the AI has ever NOT stolen my dig sites. They've never made landmarks. They never choose not to dig. They're jerks, even my 'closest friends'.

Am I experiencing confirmation bias? Does the AI have the ability to do this, or is it disabled as 'non-human' behavior or something?

That's all I ever see them do. And it's all I ever do, friends or not.

 

[Deadstarre]

I've had mutually open borders and intentionally not stolen their digs because of the diplo hits. depending on the situation and your plans in the game, it can easily not be worth losing a relationship over a handful of artifacts

 

[Txurce]

I've had mutually open borders and intentionally not stolen their digs because of the diplo hits. depending on the situation and your plans in the game, it can easily not be worth losing a relationship over a handful of artifacts

Having experimented a lot with this, I can say that you often don't lose a DoF over it. I'd say you have to weigh the greens and reds in your head.

 

[Gazebo]

The only rule the AI follows - currently - is if they promised not to dig. They'll ignore your sites if they promised. Otherwise, drill baby drill.

G

 

[Deadstarre]

Correct me if im wrong, this is how I see the current situation then - by me having mutually open borders with anyone, it guarantees they will steal at least 1 of my artifacts (1 per player, if I notice immediately) at which point I am then allowed to ask them to stop (no option to make the request if they havnt dug yet, right?), at which point I will get a negative diplo modifier regardless of whether they agree or not just for asking.

so being guaranteed to lose at least 1 artifact and get a negative diplo modifier if I dont want to lose them all is married hand-in-hand to my decision to share open borders with my closest allies? the other option being make certain I am the first one to get archeology tech and immediately put everything else on hold until I have dug all my own sites.

hmm...

 

[Txurce]

Correct me if im wrong, this is how I see the current situation then - by me having mutually open borders with anyone, it guarantees they will steal at least 1 of my artifacts (1 per player, if I notice immediately) at which point I am then allowed to ask them to stop (no option to make the request if they havnt dug yet, right?), at which point I will get a negative diplo modifier regardless of whether they agree or not just for asking.

so being guaranteed to lose at least 1 artifact and get a negative diplo modifier if I dont want to lose them all is married hand-in-hand to my decision to share open borders with my closest allies? the other option being make certain I am the first one to get archeology tech and immediately put everything else on hold until I have dug all my own sites.

hmm...

Easy fix: move a worker atop the digger and command it to do anything. The digger is stymied.

 

[Deadstarre]

Easy fix: move a worker atop the digger and command it to do anything. The digger is stymied.

I need a "Cheese" emoji to respond to this properly =)

 

[Enginseer]

You could also build a fort which prevents them from overriding any improvements you have to dig in your sites.

 

[Stalker0]

You could also build a fort which prevents them from overriding any improvements you have to dig in your sites.

You can also declare war and kill their archeologists, everyone!!!

 

[Moi Magnus]

The only rule the AI follows - currently - is if they promised not to dig. They'll ignore your sites if they promised. Otherwise, drill baby drill.

G

That's typically the kind of situations where you would want to be able to ask them not to dig before any digging.
Would it count as "new code" to be able to ask them as soon as you unlock Archeology (instead of as soon as they dig), or is it an easy things to do ?

 

[Edaka]

You can always erect a landmark in somebody's territory for a considerable diplomatic boost. With major civs it is something like a +20 boost, with transparent diplomacy on, for the first landmark, and diminishing boosts for the consequent ones. That brings me to my other point.

AI will usually ask you to stop digging as soon as you start digging, not as soon as you finish a dig, then deciding to either take an artifact home or construct a landmark. You can only respond to that demand in two ways: ignore the demand or promise not to dig again. Well, here's the thing: if you promise not to dig, but then you keep doing that while only building landmarks in the AI territory, they don't mind. That doesn't count as breaking the promise, instead it just keeps on giving positive diplo boosts. It seems to me that you only break the promise once you finish digging up a site and then choose to take an artifact (but don't take my word for this).

In my games this means digging everywhere I can, denying the AI digs by constructing landmarks for them - often in bad terrain like desert or outside of city working range - getting positive diplo reputation, all while having promised not to ever dig in their territory again and somehow ending up not breaking the promise.

 

[admfischer]

You can alwats erect a landmark in somebody's territory for a considerable diplomatic boost. With major civs it is something like a +20 boost, with transparent diplomacy on, for the first landmark, and diminishing boosts for the consequent ones. That brings me to my other point.

AI will usually ask you to stop digging as soon as you start digging, not as soon as you finish a dig, then deciding to either take an artifact home or construct a landmark. You can only respond to that demand in two ways: ignore the demand or promise not to dig again. Well, here's the thing: if you promise not to dig, but then you keep doing that while only building landmarks on the AI territory, they don't mind. That doesn't count as breaking the promise, instead it just keeps on giving positive diplo boosts. It seems to me that you only break the promise once you finish digging up a site and then choose to take an artifact (but don't take my word for this).

In my games this means digging everywhere I can, denying the AI digs by constructing landmarks for them - often in bad terrain like desert or outside of city working range - getting positive diplo reputation, all while having promised not to ever dig in their territory again and somehow ending up not breaking the promise.

I always build landmarks on foreign artifact sites if I'm aiming for artistry-cultural victory games, as it seems to me that triggering historical events and tourism bonuses is more important than gaining those artifacts.

 

[ElliotS]

The only rule the AI follows - currently - is if they promised not to dig. They'll ignore your sites if they promised. Otherwise, drill baby drill.

G

This seems too much. I think the AI should make landmarks for nations that are their friends, or who's military has them afraid. I do that myself decently often, so it's not like it's the AI playing poorly. It also denies the artifacts to the player, especially bad on medieval and on dig sites.

Obviously they'd still want to plunder their enemies, anyone going for a culture VC (however they determine that) and (potentially) the top civ or two.

 

[Txurce]

AI will usually ask you to stop digging as soon as you start digging, not as soon as you finish a dig, then deciding to either take an artifact home or construct a landmark. You can only respond to that demand in two ways: ignore the demand or promise not to dig again. Well, here's the thing: if you promise not to dig, but then you keep doing that while only building landmarks in the AI territory, they don't mind. That doesn't count as breaking the promise, instead it just keeps on giving positive diplo boosts. It seems to me that you only break the promise once you finish digging up a site and then choose to take an artifact (but don't take my word for this).

I don't think I'm ever asked to stop before I get my first artifact, and I'm positive that they usually don't ask early. (They do often start digging atop my guy.) I always say I will stop, then keep right on digging -- and always get a negative diplo modifier. It sounds like we're playing different games.

This seems too much. I think the AI should make landmarks for nations that are their friends, or who's military has them afraid. I do that myself decently often, so it's not like it's the AI playing poorly. It also denies the artifacts to the player, especially bad on medieval and on dig sites.

Obviously they'd still want to plunder their enemies, anyone going for a culture VC (however they determine that) and (potentially) the top civ or two.

First, nothing left in VP at this point is too much. Based on your OP, you just may not like losing so many artifacts to the AI.

More to the point, what you're proposing would be political actions based on short-term thinking, which they AI does too much of already.

There's nothing wrong with the system right now.

 

[DarkZero]

I don't think I'm ever asked to stop before I get my first artifact, and I'm positive that they usually don't ask early. (They do often start digging atop my guy.) I always say I will stop, then keep right on digging -- and always get a negative diplo modifier. It sounds like we're playing different games.



First, nothing left in VP at this point is too much. Based on your OP, you just may not like losing so many artifacts to the AI.

More to the point, what you're proposing would be political actions based on short-term thinking, which they AI does too much of already.

There's nothing wrong with the system right now.

Txurce has spoken guys, close the topic the discussion is over, nothing wrong here, move on./s

Agreed 100% whit everything @ElliotS said, to the point where even wen playing peaceful whit lots of friends it comes a turn where i have to refuse every single open boarder proposal because I know each ai i have open board whit is going to steal a dig site, its one of those things that is annoying but you learn to deal whit after some practice.

 

[ElliotS]

Txurce has spoken guys, close the topic the discussion is over, nothing wrong here, move on./s

Agreed 100% whit everything @ElliotS said, to the point where even wen playing peaceful whit lots of friends it comes a turn where i have to refuse every single open boarder proposal because I know each ai i have open board whit is going to steal a dig site, its one of those things that is annoying but you learn to deal whit after some practice.

Exactly. It's also a distinctly inhuman action in a mod that wants to make the AIs play more human.

If another player is digging in my territory I can be like "make it a landmark or I'm going to declare war on you" or "take it but trade me a bunch of gold/luxuries" [or I'll declare war on you].

However with the AI they're so dumb I can't blame them, and just need to deny open borders. It's gamey and doesn't feel right.

 

[Txurce]

Txurce has spoken guys, close the topic the discussion is over, nothing wrong here, move on./s

Agreed 100% whit everything @ElliotS said, to the point where even wen playing peaceful whit lots of friends it comes a turn where i have to refuse every single open boarder proposal because I know each ai i have open board whit is going to steal a dig site, its one of those things that is annoying but you learn to deal whit after some practice.

The way the mechanic works now closely mirrors RL. You don't know what an archeologist is doing until after he's stolen it. And there's ususally not much you can do about it other than close your borders or, in extreme cases, declare war.

I think the real issue here is that warmongers who don't research Archeology until later, don't like being victimized for it by the AI.

 

[ElliotS]

The way the mechanic works now closely mirrors RL. You don't know what an archeologist is doing until after he's stolen it. And there's ususally not much you can do about it other than close your borders or, in extreme cases, declare war.

I think the real issue here is that warmongers who don't research Archeology until later, don't like being victimized for it by the AI.

Yeah, it's not like countries can ASK what you're planning to do with your archeologist, IRL or in PVP. It's not like countries have ever co-operated...

Do people steal? Yes. Do they steal 100% of the time? (in game or IRL) No.

You're coming off as very condescending and it's making you look quite foolish.