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AI tactics suck even on Diety.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Onionsoilder, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    Berlin, Germany
    To be clear, I certainly don't expect Firaxis to abandon a game like Quicksilver/Infogrames did with MoO3. If anything, Firaxis has a very good track record for keeping to improve the AI long after release. I have no doubt that they'll work hard on it and that the Civ5 AI will improve considerably in the future, though I must admit I'm growing a bit skeptic as to how far it can go. 1upt is a huge step up in complexity for the AI to handle, and from the reports we're getting, in its current state the AI doesn't even get the basics right.
     
  2. NackteElfe

    NackteElfe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
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    Location:
    CCAA
    Well I am really getting my ass kicked right now. I am playing on King, and for some reason 4 nations (+3 city states) declared ware on me. I was able to hold them off for some time, I even defeated on nation. But now it looks like I can't hold the lines any longer.

    The strangest thing that no one is willing to give me peace even when I fought them back so many times.

    I guess you really need to take cities from them to get peace, huh? I really like the map and the setting but after 5 hours of fighting, several realoads (and a crash every second time I load a game) I am getting bored and tired.
     
  3. Zukkini

    Zukkini Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
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    I just beat a Deity game myself, although it was a Duel map. Pretty much same comments from me, AI just didn't really know how to handle fights. Started an early war with a couple warriors and sat back while he sent one at me at a time and farmed exp while I built up a couple archers another warrior. Received a great general and then started to siege. Won about 5 turns later.

    I'll admit, OP game would have taken considerable more talent.
     
  4. DrakenKin

    DrakenKin Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
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    461
    Location:
    Montreal
    It seems the AI takes some new things into consideration. I believe either you were getting too advanced for their taste so they felt they had to stop you, or you did not hold your word (trading with someone you have a pact of secrecy against), or "preyed on the weak" (they don't seem to like ruthless/merciless warmongers, maybe we need to switch target instead of beating an empire until it totally dies), etc.

    The manual doesn't seem very helpful in describing what really affects diplomacy. I suspect we will be in the dark until some of our great modders delve into the code and report their discoveries.
     
  5. boredatwork

    boredatwork Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
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    104
    To be fair comparing the challenge of designing an AI for SSI's General series compared to a Civ style game is like apples and bananas.

    Though those games use a far more sophisticated version of the 1UPT system civ has adopted, they also played out entirely with pre-made scenarios - the fact that you have to slog your way through numerous defensive lines enroute to Moscow isn't because the AI is mounting a smart defense, it's because a human designer placed those units there and the AI was told not to move high entrenchment units unless it had a really really REALLY compelling reason to do so.
     
  6. Auncien

    Auncien Prince

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    Feb 23, 2010
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    431
    It seems to me after just shy of 40 hours of gameplay that the AI in general is very good at looking after its own interests (even if in a somewhat rudimentary way). The tactical AI seems to be the real problem. Once it comes down to units vs. units you can win the day, even at a technological or numerical disadvantage.
     
  7. Ymir9

    Ymir9 Warlord

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    Worse come to worse and I guess they'll give the AI a 33% combat bonus on higher difficulty levels.
     
  8. ptossia

    ptossia Chieftain

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    Sep 26, 2010
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    I went for a cultural game on Prince difficulty.
    Due to all the comments on ****** game AI, I decided to test it out for myself.
    That's how I lost my only warrior by attacking right next to a Barbarian Encampment.
    Surprisingly, the barbarians actually left their city, and attacked me. I died.

    Yay, the AI must not suck as bad as I had thought.

    Numerous other barbarians then proceeded to enter my city, walk around, and get shot to death by my city.
     
  9. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    That would be like declaring bankruptcy though. No Civ AI has ever done this, not even the really underdeveloped ones (like the Civ1 AI). Though I have to admit that I'm a bit worried whether one of the reasons for hiding so much data away from the player might have been to shroud the AI's incompetence, I don't believe that they'd really sink that low.
     
  10. the343danny

    the343danny Emperor

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    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Nah I already won emperor. A bit too easy though, although it helps the AI a lot to have smallish continents and a human that doesnt like to war too much.
     
  11. ptossia

    ptossia Chieftain

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    There's always mods. I'd prefer not having to resort to that though...
     
  12. Jimbo30

    Jimbo30 Prince

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    Playing on small maps is like -2 difficulty level that's why.
     
  13. Takeda

    Takeda Warlord

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    Mar 11, 2010
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    Location:
    Little Canada
    wait, so people actually like the BetterAI mod? :confused:

    It contained some good bug fixes, but I think the net effect of that mod was an AI that was even worse than vanilla BTS.
     
  14. Booshaka

    Booshaka Chieftain

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    On King I did see the AI withdraw its line of pikemen after I turned back two waves of them attacking a city, it had about 5 or 6 of them and then on one turn it took them all back to its territory, thats about the only smart tactical thing ive seen the AI do.
     
  15. Oneluv

    Oneluv Warlord

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    Understood. My first three games (100 turns)were on Prince to try to get a feel for the new games A.I. . After stating my concerns I was roundly critcized for not playing on a high enough difficulty level. That I should quit whining, shut -up blah blah blah that the difficulty scaled with the levels. One fanboy even quoted the page for me to reference. unbelievable.

    When I was "informed" the difficulty scaled to Diety I laughed. But who knows. Maybe I was wrong and it did scale. Thank you for settling that point for me. My experience with the game in the last couple days certainly validates your post.

    That Firaxis saw a need to scale an A.I. this poor just shows how their primary focus is on bringing the lowest common denominator to the Civ franchise. This is a game, as it currently sits, more suited for the dim witted console user than anyone really looking to be challenged.
     
  16. Lakart

    Lakart Chieftain

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    Its funny, I see lots of people complain about the AI, but I've had AI that take over for leavers in multiplayer ACTUALLY DO SMART THINGS even though they have always been on Prince. In fact, earlier today, I was next to Catherine - Russia, I did a stupid and declared war on her even though I knew her army was bigger than mine. She would move units into place, fortify them, move a few more in so there were more than mine, then beat the :):):):) out of whatever army I had defending my city before closing in on her next target and once again using superior ground placement and fortifying to lock me in. And this was on PRINCE setting.

    In the end, I did beat her, but it was only because I had more cities advanced enough to spam better units than she had. She had swordsmen, crossbows, a few catapults and some pikemen, I just spammed longswordsmen over and over until eventually I beat her dead. But if I hadn't had the more advanced society/more resources, she would have routed my whole empire in a few turns.
     
  17. Lightzy

    Lightzy Warlord

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    Whats so hard about winning deity.
    start a duel map as germany on deity and zerg the AI.


    Or maybe easier, play on archipelago. the AI land units are all made of vampires and cannot cross large bodies of water in CIV5. empire:total-war style. they can only go as far as like 1 tile from shore, and they do it stupidly too (get killed by cities)
     
  18. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    The AI bonuses are all in CIV5HandicapsInfos.xml, not much point to give them other, secret, advantages. (Well, for the most part... I suspect AI doesn't treat other AI the same way it treats human players.)
     
  19. GreyIago

    GreyIago Chieftain

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    Well, that's good. You won one Diety game and the AI sucks at combat.

    Awesome. I'm deleting my game.
     
  20. HeavyTwenty

    HeavyTwenty Chieftain

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    Sep 25, 2010
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    Maybe they'll patch it :(

    The AI seems to do "okay" in the field, but when it comes to sieging, there's definately major issues.

    Oh and if you play on Earth map, the Americas never get involved with the rest of the world (AI won't embark or use ships).
     

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