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AIs and the Art of War

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Arkenor, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You do know that the AI considers forts like a city don' t you. Forts are based off the city coding in many ways. So yes TW's will go to forts. TW line are the main crime fighting unit but they also are City Defenders. Which in turn makes them defenders for the surrounding tiles as well. Both for defense and for crime fighting, although defensive uses are considered by the AI before crime many times. But just with a TW stationed on a forested hill in a cities fatX Crime is being reduced on that tile, the AI has a defended defensive position, and if other Game Options like Realistic Culture Spread is used, a Cultural Holding point as well. All these are being considered.

    JosEPh
     
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Since crime control is not all that TW's are built for right now, they get a lot of use by the AI. They aren't really intended to be good defenders but initially they were and that old coding is still actively finding them to be valuable in that role as well. This is leading to some glut of TWs.
     
  3. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

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    I only recently (last game) started to use TW units outside the city. To see what happened, because you started updating that feature. :goodjob:. - But I got distracted by other events in the game, so did not check it out.

    From your above post.
    Does that mean I can ignore the second ring of the fat cross? As I had placed TW,s there in my game. But did not monitor properly what was happening.

    Note: I have not updated since mid November (SVN 8909). If you have made any changes since then that may effect the answer to this question.
     
  4. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    AFAIK Crime diffuses to the 8 tiles around the city main (center) tile. I have not tested myself for the next ring that makes it a fat X.

    And Yes there have been changes since svn 8909. Some Individual Crimes moved to later techs (looting prime example now shows up at Masonary) and Traits with crime changed (mostly reduced but not all).

    JosEPh
     
  5. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @T-brd,

    I can't seem to find where the Tribal Guardian would default to have the Crime Fighting Promo On at Game start. The Red Shield Option is good for player but the AI Really Needs this turned on for the TG at game start. Will you turn it on please for the AI?

    JosEPh
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    It bases it on the value of what's most needed at the time. Right away there isn't any crime so it probably doesn't have value right out the gate. But once a little crime builds and a recheck takes place which happens roughly every 10 rounds, it would see the value in this buildup and probably switch over at that time. I could try to adjust it so that it sees more value immediately but that's tough to put up against the fortification bonus - if I did, ALL units that could fortify vs anti-crime buildup would choose to anti-crime buildup at all times.

    This probably won't be quite as important though after some early LE units are made available.

    I suppose I could also write in a cheat somehow that specifies if the unit is a Tribal Guardian then use that buildup only... something like that.
     
  7. MacCoise

    MacCoise Prince

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    Definitely a case of Crime affecting the AI in my game (which apart from Crime is very balanced on Eternity :) ) , I will update to latest changes now to see of there's a difference
     
  8. MacCoise

    MacCoise Prince

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    Actually not sure it si Crime now
     
  9. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Shouldn't be. Of the 800+ turns I played on Eternity last week Crime was easily handled by the player. And AI weight for Crime Property was changed to encourage the AI to address crime more quickly than before.

    JosEPh
     
  10. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Here is an example of bad hunting practices by the AI. It seems to be just the Mongols so it is probably something related to them only but not traits as I am playing with traits off.

    In the east I have a hunter next to one of their hunters. It has been there a long time as can be seen by all the subdued animals in the stack. There are a lot!
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'll let Alberts address this when he can. He was the architect of the current hunting routines. Not that I couldn't see what I could do with it but I don't want to mess with his design if I can help it because there's a lot right about it even if there are some flaws like what you've posted. Thanks for the save example though. If he doesn't address it, I'll be happy to take a look eventually.
     
  12. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    That hunter is sitting there with 137 subdued animals. In the wild! I expect the Mongols were broke.
     
  13. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    *sigh*

    Ok... I've looked at the hunting code and have identified a number of spots where a hunter could get frozen in the field. I've done what I can to resolve these. After the next update, watch for improvement on that front.
     
  14. MacCoise

    MacCoise Prince

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    Is there any possibility Elephants could have some sort of negative promotion like "Easily panicked" which would give a chance each turn of attacking their own or alternatively a promotion available to some units like "anti-Elephant tactics".

    From what I have read Elephants were dangerous to all sides and the Romans and other developed effective counter tactics ( letting them pass through the ranks) which greatly negated their usefulness in battle. They are very powerful units which can dominate from late prehistoric and still be powerful up to Medieval even
     
  15. Buildkirbyus

    Buildkirbyus Trainee Modder

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    There is a counter- throwing units.
    Anti-mounted promotions help as well.
     
  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    They are strong and some plans will make them stronger still in terms of usefulness. However, they do need a little more counter balancing and with eventual morale modifications to come, this could be a weak point for them. Attacking their own... hmm... I'll have to think on how something like that could work. I can think of a few ways this could be represented somewhat.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Exactly and Agreed.

    Latest SVN update addressed this in giving Copper, Bronze, and Iron Spearman a boost in Str from 5 to 6. Also Copper, Bronze, and Iron Axeman to str 7. Axe has been soooo understrength for so long they have become useless except as mop up or fodder.

    Also Early Chariot upped from a str of 4 to 5.

    These base unit changes have been weak links for way too long. This gives them all more worth and versatility.

    Am also considering and testing upping Lancer and Dragoon strengths. They cost the same as a Crussaire and are available at the same time as upgrades but their Str is subpar so why build them at all? Just build the Crussaire instead.

    In reality the 1st metals (Copper and then Bronze) Spearman and Axe should have a different str than Iron. But that involves building new Units in the xml files and then proper placement in the tech tree. All doable but again just adds more to the size of the xml files.

    JosEPh
     
  18. Sparth

    Sparth C2C Team Member

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  19. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    The improvements in materials is generally headed towards being handled by equipments.
     
  20. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    From GlobalDefines.xml
    <!-- A way to directly enhance the value of bombarding units in city attack stacks (+%) -->
    <!-- The structure should still keep them in a ratio according to the rest of the stack... this can simply help them to NOT be ignored EVER -->
    <Define>
    <DefineName>C2C_ROUGH_BOMBARD_VALUE_MODIFIER</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>-20</iDefineIntVal>
    <
    I believe this is direct conflict with some of the BBAI_AI_Variable_GlobalDefines that define and sets values on Bombard Usage and when the AI can ignore Bombardment when Attacking City and % of stack allowed to Be bombard units.

    Also it is the only <iDefineIntegerVal> that uses a Neg integer. No other iDefine value in any of the other 11 "GlobalDefines" use a Negative integer.

    Perhaps the Author did not realize the BBAI covered this area as well?

    I do believe that most of the Problems with AI City attacking is in the BBAI_AI_Variable_GlobalDefines.xml and has been overlooked or not understood, perhaps a combination of both. Although the Author of the BBAI gives comments on usage for all settings.

    This also raises the question has the mod had coding added that may have been unnecessary because of the lack of knowledge about what the BBAI_AI_Variable_GlobalDefines does? :dunno:

    Maybe all that was needed for sometime was to just adjust some of the values in BBAI_AI_Variable_GlobalDefines.xml. There is also some related values/settings in some of the other GlobalDefines as well.

    So I ask these questions.

    JosEPh
     

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