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AIs and the Art of War

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Arkenor, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Trantor

    Trantor Warlord

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    i was playing a space map and found the AI much better.
    it was not spamming huge volume of useless units like entertainer or brute...
    it was counterattacking well
    it is using criminals well and keeping pace in technology

    true.... large army strike, surprise attacks are still missing. once you have a large army, it can bulldoze the AI
     
  2. armenia4ever

    armenia4ever Chieftain

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    I'm also playing a space map right now and I noticed the AI is building medical and guard units to keep unhealthiness and crime down - much more so than I've noticed in the past on other maps. (This could be because of an SVN update, though I don't know.)

    Tech wise I actually had some of the AI ahead of me tech wise for a bit. At least 3 AI civs have also actually bothered to build cities on islands, something that I have noticed before. No real building of rogue/stealth units though.
     
  3. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Everyone, who is in Modern or later eras, or have some AIs in Modern era:

    Do AI build tanks and planes?

    On 2nd December I added AIweight of 1 to all buildings, that are requirement for other buildings, produce resource (Industrial era and later buildings) and National Wonders, that give free buildings or give resource or are requirement for other buildings.

    I can add AI weight to buildings, that are required to build units, unless those buildings are crime related.

    This means now AI should build (some building could be seemed worthless by AI in middle of chain breaking it) all buildings in chain and should see buildings at end of chain.
    There are a lot of buildings, that doesn't need AIweight, but they got blanketed as they met certain criteria.

    Hunting Instructions and Community Discussions were buildings, that didn't met those criteria and got AIweight (latter got it somewhere much earlier).
    AI built Hunting Instructions at all for first time since eternity.
    On my earlier test they built NASA, and it needs a lot of polluting buildings and manufactured resources along way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  4. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I ran Tiny/Nighmare/Blitz autorun for 300 turns (took me around 6 hours).
    Two AIs reached Modern era.

    Because of Slavery being active they couldn't build Factory and because of that they couldn't build all resource factories.
    @Thunderbrd I think it breaks AI a little.

    Here is savegame attached.

    Map is C2CWorld Pangea landmass

    I guess this is second reason as to why some of us newer saw modern warfare, if you reached Modern era.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Well, there's no AI to remove slavery apparently. Since it's added through units, they only ever add it, as I've explained before, and never see cause to remove it. If Slavery was made a Policy, then we'd have the ability to address this without simply saying let's get rid of the rule that slavery stops the building of factories, which DH implemented as a balance point to force the removal of slavery with. Since we are looking at Policies as a fix for numerous other issues that unit generated buildings that need to then later be removed are causing, I think that's the better option than spending a couple hundred hours on trying to build out a better unit AI to evaluate when to train units that can remove slavery and when to have them choose to do so and under what exact conditions they would think they should. Much easier to convert slavery back to a civic as a Policy and then use more conventional means to motivate them to see why to eventually remove the policy.
     
  6. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    There IS way to remove Slavery at Industrial era.

    Emancipation Proclamation World Wonder should be converted to National Wonder and given AI weight.
    It requires Emancipation tech.
    This World Wonder should have much more to choose civics or shouldn't require any civics.
    I can remove blocking of buildings by slavery for now.

    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2018-12-14 19-01-52-13.jpg
    Civ4BeyondSword 2018-12-14 19-01-56-00.jpg Civ4BeyondSword 2018-12-14 19-03-17-85.jpg
    Civ4BeyondSword 2018-12-14 19-02-11-27.jpg


    Also how even units can remove something at first place?
    Such building should replace other building.
     
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  7. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I would be completely in favor of this as a fix now. I think it would work better than to undo yet more of DH's stuff that I don't mind him having done to begin with here.
    Plus, this makes sense as a National Wonder. So yeah, do that, not remove the blocking of buildings by slavery.

    How would units remove a building? It's how worldviews work right now. Judges and GPs can remove slavery, cannibalism and human sacrifice. Only thing is the AI doesn't know to do it and if it did it would take a lot of evaluating to teach them when to do it. And then yet more evaluating to teach them not to adopt the worldview as soon as they've gotten rid of it. I may be wrong and DH did some py stuff to make all that work that I'm not aware of but you're seeing them not choose to get rid of the worldviews at good junctures so if it's there, it's not working as it should.
     
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  8. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Okay, I'll make it civic-independent national wonder.
    I think it can replace Cannibalism and Human Sacrifice worldviews too.

    Pepper made this World Wonder.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Those should probably be eliminated earlier than that. But we can wait for policies.
     
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  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    And now its committed.

    I think Slavery was source of collapse in Modern era in some cases, as AI couldn't produce needed stuff.
    Also it was another reason for AIs not making tanks and other stuff.
     
  11. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    I'm wondering why wouldn't slavery allow AI to build factories...
     
  12. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    DH wanted to give a very solid reason to get rid of slavery and figured that if slavery had continued, then factories would've always been perceived as unnecessary.
     
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  13. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Players can't build factories if Slavery is active too.

    I think it was to make it more realistic or to force players/AI from it, but that backfired badly.
     
  14. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    Then a revision is needed of buildings related to mind control (transhuman era) as there are buildings (and the civic?) that change their output if slavery is present.
     
  15. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I don't think you would even survive to Transhuman era without Factory and other buildings and tens if not few hundred buildings interconnected trough resource and building requirements. :p

    I guess Slavery influence could be removed from Mind Control - that probably was done before slavery blocked certian buildings.
     
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  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Maybe we will need to consider a new form of slavery that can be implemented in the later eras...
     
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  17. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    I think the reasoning was that industry wouldn't be built, but that it would be perfectly possible to fall back into a slavery system later on (cough ... WW2). So factories should stay if slavery gets re-established (or perhaps even established for the first time).
     
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I agree, but it would be easier from a game crafting perspective to make it something like 'modern slavery' or something along those lines so that it cannot conflict.
     
  19. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    One of AIs have tanks and aircraft resource and even it builds them!

    Other AI still somehow didn't get Emancipation tech (It leads to Women's Suffrage and then Minority Rights in late Modern era, this tech unlocks slavery killswitch NW) - I guess I need to tie it with Modern Lifestyle or even earlier.
    I simulated 300 turns on Tiny/Blitz/Nightmare WITH tech diffusion, WFL, Tech Trading/Brokering.
    Most advanced AI is already in Nanotech era as result of it.
    This is where we use upscaled research costs :)
     

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  20. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    Glad you are making the modern era playable again! :bowdown:
     
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