ALC Game 13: Mali/Mansa Musa

I had a look at the savedgame and I noticed it will only take 5 turns for Fishing compared to 22 turns for IW. Isn't this a good reason to settle FishPhants first and have your worker irrigate a farm on the grassland tile while researching fishing first?
 
I had a look at the savedgame and I noticed it will only take 5 turns for Fishing compared to 22 turns for IW. Isn't this a good reason to settle FishPhants first and have your worker irrigate a farm on the grassland tile while researching fishing first?

no, because he has no culture building available (= no myst and no writing and no religion), and the fishes swim far from the coast ;)
 
no, because he has no culture building available (= no myst and no writing and no religion), and the fishes swim far from the coast ;)

Oops, my mistake, but important to mention we need a culture-boosting tech or religion, before settling EleFish. Mysticism is probably cheap too, so one might consider Fishing-Mysticism-Iron Working and settling city #3 fast.
 
Oops, my mistake, but important to mention we need a culture-boosting tech or religion, before settling EleFish. Mysticism is probably cheap too, so one might consider Fishing-Mysticism-Iron Working and settling city #3 fast.
I'll probably switch research to Iron Working as several people are urging me, then research Mysticism for Monuments, then go back on the Pottery - Writing - Alphabet route. I may make a detour for fishing in there too--maybe after Mysticism--since if I wait to tech trade for fishing, that delays fish city and another civ may get there before me.
 
Finish researching Pottery first. You're financial: you want those cottages up and running as soon as possible.
 
He have nmothing to cottage up anyways... Better to finish fishing first as that speeds up pottery. IMO fishing-mystisism then either iw or pottery. The fish city cant build both monument and work boat at the same time anyways. i sugest building a work boat while growing then whip monument for 1 pop right as it grows then continue on the work boat(you'll have mysticism done by that time anyways). As you need fishing early anyways getting it after pottery seems such a waste as it is a prereq anyways...
 
I agree that you don't need Pottery immediately. You do need Monuments, though. So I recommend switching to Mysticism, then IW (squeeze in Fishing once you get pink dot settled) then back to Pottery.

Keep in mind that the window's closing fast for a Skirmisher rush, if you plan to make one. Kublai does have horses AND copper, but it's possible neither one's hooked up yet. And with Beshbalik so tantalizingly close...still, you obviously need an ARMY of some kind to do that. Seems like your capital is guarded by only a settler -- now that's playing dangerous! :crazyeye:

I sure wouldn't want to attack without any metal-based troops in support (especially spearmen to counter chariot/Keshik pillagers) but depending on what IW reveals, you might have to rely on Skirms/Chariots alone.
 
He have nmothing to cottage up anyways... Better to finish fishing first as that speeds up pottery. IMO fishing-mystisism then either iw or pottery.
Wha?

I count at least four riverside tiles that can be cottaged around his capital, plus several other non-irrigated tiles, should he wish to spam the place.

Fishing should probably be timed to coincide with settling the fishing site. If he decides to settle inland first, then he might as well save it for later.

One point, though: I don't play quite at this difficulty level, so my advice should be seen in that light.
 
Wha?

I count at least four riverside tiles that can be cottaged around his capital, plus several other non-irrigated tiles, should he wish to spam the place.

Fishing should probably be timed to coincide with settling the fishing site. If he decides to settle inland first, then he might as well save it for later.

One point, though: I don't play quite at this difficulty level, so my advice should be seen in that light.

I think the idea is that there is no use having cottages if you aren't working them, and he has a lot of resource tiles to work first.
 
Round 2: 2140 BC to 1240 BC

Well, all of you certainly gave me a lot to think about!

With the most attractive target, Kublai, being Creative, I decided to forgo a Skirmisher/Chariot rush. This meant I needed better offensive units. Thus, a change in research started the round:

ALC13_1240BC_01.jpg


You see, forgoing an early rush meant that I'd be expanding peacefully, and knowing the location of iron would be crucial.

Even so, I had a Settler to use, and following Sturge's dot map I settled him on the "green" spot to claim pigs, wheat, and ivory:

ALC13_1240BC_02.jpg


Yes, lots of barb units wandering around! There is a grace period in the game when barb units will not enter your territory. I figured I was still in it, and thus took the risk of founding the city without an initial defender. Still, I didn't want to take too many chances, thus its first build:

ALC13_1240BC_03.jpg


That would give the city time to grow, and that Skirmisher would indeed prove useful.

My explorers were also noticing the barb units. My Scout survived thanks to a lot of ducking and weaving, not to mention ending turns on hilltops to see where he should go and where he shouldn't. My Warrior survived an encounter with his barb counterpart and became a super-scout:

ALC13_1240BC_04.jpg


Nifty.

Then, in 1540 BC, I finished that very important metal tech:

ALC13_1240BC_05.jpg


I then started on Mysticism. Lots of my potential cities need border pops ASAP, and no religion spread to me this round.

So where is the iron? Not within my two initial cities' borders, of course--that would be too easy! There's one source north of Djenne:

ALC13_1240BC_06.jpg


And another to its west:

ALC13_1240BC_07.jpg


The northern location is kind of meh. It would have to share the pigs with Djenne, and would have a lot of useless desert in its fat cross. The western location, though, is choice. Founded on the plains tile 1N of the silk, it claims that resource along with the iron, pigs, and stone, and has some hills for production and grassland for either farms (with Civil Service--no water source nearby) or cottages, or a mix. There's no way to move the city south to claim the dye without giving up both the pigs and the stone, unfortunately. Does everyone agree that this should be the next city?

And yes, it's a good thing I didn't found the second city 1S of the stone as I was originally thinking.

Meanwhile, Kublai continues to annoy me:

ALC13_1240BC_08.jpg


Well, I guess he went to the trouble of founding that city for me. Still, he's threatening my 2nd gem tile. And he's just plain annoying. I mean it, he's really ticking me off in this game. Screw the strategic thinking, once I have iron for Swords and Axes, I want to build a mess of them and kill him dead.

Okay. Deep breath. Ahhh. Now then. Next tech:

ALC13_1240BC_09.jpg


Because of the timing, I didn't start on a monument in Djenne right away; I was in the middle of a Worker. Timbuktu had built a couple of Skirmishers and then worked on a Chariot before getting the Settler for iron city ready. After Mysticism:

ALC13_1240BC_10.jpg


I was going to need it for the northeast fish city (4th in priority now), and it shaved another turn off of Pottery, so hey. Speaking of which, I decided to research Pottery next and get it done while it was only going to take 3 turns.

Now, this is where I left off, since we have some more decisions to make. First of all, here are the builds in my two cities. The Settler is almost complete in the capital:

ALC13_1240BC_11.jpg


While in Djenne, here's what I was contemplating:

ALC13_1240BC_12.jpg


I haven't put any hammers into it yet because I wanted your opinions on it. Have I left it too late? I could chop 2, maybe even 3 forests to speed it up, along with putting a mine on that hill NW of the city. And the Great Prophet could prove useful, no?

Even so, it could take a while. In addition, I may not want to wait all those turns to put a monument in iron city--I'd want the iron on-line ASAP. Lessee... 2 turns to finish the Settler, 4-5 turns to get the Settler over there, the monument will take... ah, crap, someone else work it out for me. Should I go after Stonehenge or just say screw it and build a monument?

To help our thinking further, here's a look at the map. North...

ALC13_1240BC_13.jpg


...and south.

ALC13_1240BC_14.jpg


Like I said, after making the move to Fractal to get different maps, it keeps stubbornly giving me continents! :lol: The good news is that no one has beaten me to fishville yet, and there's even room still to expand into the western jungle and claim the dye. I can see why Kublai's expanding in my direction, since it looks like he's out on an isthmus and the land to his west is not terrifically attractive (though that desert tile 1SW of the copper would make for a half-decent production city, what with cows and clams).

I still think the iron/pig/stone/silk city is the next priority. That's too choice a spot to leave to the AI. I was thinking of building another Settler right on the heels of the current one in Timbuktu in order to claim fishville before anyone else. I have a Chariot and a Skirmisher in the capital, so one can go north to fogbust/defend the city.

After the cities are founded, I think I have to beef up my military. Some barracks, then more Skirmishers and Chariots, followed up by Axes, Spears, and especially Swordsmen once the Iron is available. I'll need more Workers, too, so I'll have to slip those in. Is everyone agreed?

What to research next, once Pottery is done? I was thinking of going after Writing and Alphabet next, leaving the 2 early religion techs (now founded, along with Judaism, too, in Barcelona) and Priesthood aside, forgoing the Oracle.
 
Yeah, build the cities at the pigs/stone/iron/silk and the fish/ivory. After those, go military on Kublai. he has some really nice terrain that you can develop now with IW. Just bring a lot of workers to clear the jungle. That territory will give you enough cottageable area to go tech-crazy like the real Mansa and go for space peacefully. Plus, improve that second gems! It will give your research a shot in the arm while you expand and build up military.
 
yeah, kublai's second city looks good with rice cow ivory and sugar

wfat i would do for your iron city is put is one south of the pigs so you can grow it then whip a monument
 
My opinion on the stonehenge, is that either you don't bother with it, or you build it very early and take advantage of the hammers efficiency from expanding peacefully early. If you're industrous, you break even with 3 cities, or if you start with stone, you break even with 2 cities IF you don't build it in your capital. Usually it ends up in your capital though, because you need to race for it. I would've settled next to the stone and THEN chop-rush the stonehenge. The stonehenge city could easily get its second border pop and hook onto the iron (not to mention a mad cultural boast, because double-culture is in 1000 YEARS, not a number of turns).

In other words, don't do it now.

As for war, here's a cheap move I'm proposing:
- attack Isabella
- capture a Jewish city
- become Jewish
- end the war. -3 for "you declared war on us", +9 for same religion
- bribe her into attacking the Mongols.
 
As for war, here's a cheap move I'm proposing:
- attack Isabella
- capture a Jewish city
- become Jewish
- end the war. -3 for "you declared war on us", +9 for same religion
- bribe her into attacking the Mongols.

Isabella actually is Buddhist so you'd have to capture a Buddhist city to try that. You'd probably be better off hoping that it spreads naturally to one of your cities though.
 
Sisuitil,

I agree with your third city placement, although you may have some cultural issues in keeping control of the pig tile. And then building another settler for the fish city seems a good choice. Although I would build another skirmisher or put some hammers into a barracks until Timbuktu reaches size 5. As Galileo pointed out you really need to get one of your workers to mine that second gems. If you're going to go for an early attack you also probably want to mine Timbuktu's hills as well (although that can probably wait until you have another worker or two).

I would think it's probably too late for Stonehenge, but with this low number of AIs the completion date for wonders can vary significantly. As to whether it would help get the border expansion in the third city, I think it really depends on how many forests you chop for it. Most likely it won't give you much if any advantage in helping your third city.

For research I think Writing next is the best choice. After that I suppose you have to decide if you want to beeline Construction or follow some other path (possibly Alphabet then MC).

One thing that you didn't mention is that a barb city has popped up next to the jungle horses. With 5 resources that would be a very nice addition to your empire, and it can probably be gotten with just skirmishers and chariots. It also denies Kublai the resource he needs for his UU (unless there's another horse around Karakorum).
 
I don't know why you're so worried about someone beating you to fishville. No AI is dumb enough to settle that far from their own borders this early in the game so it'll be safe for a while yet. Spain, on the other hand, has already made a play for your pig/iron/stone spot, or at least the pig part of it, so you may end up in a bit of a culture war there. It'll have decent production and make a good spot for a stone-based wonder to sort that out though.

And speaking of culture, it's way too late for stonehenge. I'm surprised it hasn't gone already to be honest. I'd stick with building monuments yourself, especially as you're going to want calendar sooner rather than later. If you can secure the land as far west as the stone/iron city and then exterminate Kublai you'll easily have enough land to pursue the victory condition of your choosing.
 
If only you had gone fishing and myst before other techs like archery and setled the fish city first you could have moved the corn/pig city to get the iron... Would make for one amazing production city with iron on plains two food resources elephants and 2 hills. Then you could have rushed kublai easy with a mix of axes and swords.
 
If only you had gone fishing and myst before other techs like archery and setled the fish city first you could have moved the corn/pig city to get the iron... Would make for one amazing production city with iron on plains two food resources elephants and 2 hills. Then you could have rushed kublai easy with a mix of axes and swords.
I suppose. Archery became kind of moot once I finished AH and saw I had horses. Nevertheless, the Skirmishers got a lot of work fending off the Barbarian rush in this round, which I forgot to mention. I think 2 of them have earned their first promotions already (so did Timbuktu's Chariot). I always want to see the UU get something of a workout, hence Archery being the priority.

And by the way, the Skirmishers battle animation is pretty cool. :goodjob:
 
No AI is dumb enough to settle that far from their own borders this early in the game so it'll be safe for a while yet.

That's what the AI normally does, but there are occasions when it can surprise you. In my shadow game Isabella founded Barcelona (her second city) one tile NW of where Djenne is in Sisuitil's game. That's 8 tiles away from her capital in case you're wondering.

It's actually somewhat understandable in this game since Isabella is practically surrounded by desert and ocean.
 
Back
Top Bottom