ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
It's too bad - ideally I'd put the city 1S of the corn (2W, 1N of the horses). Fish, corn, horses and a coastal city. And it leaves plenty of room for a city to get the Sheep/Silk. But the horses are in the 2nd ring, so it might take too long for them to be workable. To get the horses immediately, 1N does look like the best spot, but it's going to make a pretty crappy city down the line.
I guess it depends on how fast you could get that 2nd ring up. If you could pre-chop a forest, and get the Monument up immediately, it wouldn't take that long. You're going to want to get a Barracks up in your Capital anyway.
Bh
I guess it depends on how fast you could get that 2nd ring up. If you could pre-chop a forest, and get the Monument up immediately, it wouldn't take that long. You're going to want to get a Barracks up in your Capital anyway.
Bh
Is this true? Based on Sisiutil's write-up it sounds like the scout met Ghengis in the N, so he'll be competing for the jungle land. Scouting will have to continue to find out how much competition there will be.
I also think 1N of the horses is probably best, although none of the possible horse cities looks really great. I think that site has the most production available.
I don't know how much we want to say about a third city until copper is revealed and we see where Qin places his second and third cities. 2N of the gold is another possibility.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Well, the fastest and cheapest way to get the horses going may actually be to found the city on the desert tile with the forest to its east pre-chopped for the monument. Remember Cyrus lacks any economic advantages, and the horse city, as we can see, is not going to contribute much to either a SE or CE, so the desert site reduces maintenance and leaves the fish, corn, and marble for another city or two (which Genghis may found for me).
Then again, if Genghis founds a city near the horses and they're 2 tiles away from my city, I could find myself in cultural competition for them. 1 north of the ponies is looking more and more attractive the more I think about it.
I should add that this is why I like fractal maps. Isn't the shape of this continent looking interesting, not to mention the arrangement of resources and features? Much more so than the big blocky blobs you get from continents.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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Really? Why claim only 2 resources when I can have 3?
Because the rush will be better if you start it 15 turns earlier. It's worth it and is classic Cyrus. 1W of the Horses is just fine. It's not like the city you'd get by settling on top of the horses - that would be a bad city.
If what you meant is why 1W instead of 1N, 1N is OK but has less food, including the no fresh water, and you'll get the Marble when you need it. To me, the main reason to go 1N would be for the early 1H2C that you'd get by working the Marble instead of another plains forest. But come to think of it, even that would be offset by the hammer you'd lose by settling on top of one of the plains forests, and the river commerce you'd lose. Since you'd also get less food, I don't think I'd do it.
Because the rush will be better if you start it 15 turns earlier. It's worth it and is classic Cyrus. 1W of the Horses is just fine. It's not like the city you'd get by settling on top of the horses - that would be a bad city.
If what you meant is why 1W instead of 1N, 1N is OK but has less food, including the no fresh water, and you'll get the Marble when you need it. To me, the main reason to go 1N would be for the early 1H2C that you'd get by working the Marble instead of another plains forest. But come to think of it, even that would be offset by the hammer you'd lose by settling on top of one of the plains forests, and the river commerce you'd lose. Since you'd also get less food, I don't think I'd do it.
That's true - in fact, even if I settled 2W1N of the horses, I'd still build on the desert square for the sheep/silk anyway, so going there first would be an advantage.
To be honest, I think you are a little too paranoid of Genghis right now.
From what I've seen, you haven't seen any of his culture yet, just met a unit. And there are a lot of decent city locations farther north of the horses, from what I can see. That means you'll almost certainly settle near the horses first, and would also almost certainly get your culture on them first. And then, should he settle near them, well, he can become target #1. 
Absolutely. I'm interested in exactly what sort of land exists to the W that has gotten Qin's attention.
Bh
To be honest, I think you are a little too paranoid of Genghis right now.
The city sites N of the horses are in jungle. From my experience the AI doesn't like to settle its early cities in jungle. I've seen times when they've walked a settler through the jungle to settle on "my" side. The question really is how far N Genghis is, and whether there is good land N of the jungle.
Elkad
Emperor
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Desert sheep/silk/horses, you'll want a city there anyway.
To get the marble, you have an obvious corn/marble/gem/banana site as well, once you have time to chop all that jungle. And room for a fishing village with 6 land tiles 1s of the corn. Looks like the fish may be accessible from the left coast as well, if something nice is over there.
Gold/crabs/wheat looks good.
1s of the warrior (3w of sheep).. Not a great spot. 3 river grasslands, 1 floodplain.. But all those blank plains tiles say something (iron/copper) is probably hiding there.
To get the marble, you have an obvious corn/marble/gem/banana site as well, once you have time to chop all that jungle. And room for a fishing village with 6 land tiles 1s of the corn. Looks like the fish may be accessible from the left coast as well, if something nice is over there.
Gold/crabs/wheat looks good.
1s of the warrior (3w of sheep).. Not a great spot. 3 river grasslands, 1 floodplain.. But all those blank plains tiles say something (iron/copper) is probably hiding there.
BlueSoxSWJ
Chieftain
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My only hesitation about 1N of horses is that you'd then have two cities 1 tile from the coast. And we all get 
when the AI settles like that so that we have to raze and rebuild. I guess here we're trading long-term and short-term: Getting the horses online ASAP vs. having better cities later. Here's my (first, be gentle) stab at a dotmap, taking a more long-term view:
Red could be settled now, getting horses, silk, and low distance costs. It would need a border pop, but then, so would the desert tile.
The purpose for Red's spot not being 1 more W is to allow blue - fish, corn, horses, 3 grassland, 5 coast, coastal. The rest of the land isn't great, but the
can turn the food from the fish and corn into hammers. Meanwhile, the second border pop (if red isn't already there) would give you control of the peninsula, which might be a big advantage later.
Yellow could then be settled once you have iron working, to claim marble, gems, and dye.
As I mentioned, this is my first ever stab at dotmapping from scratch, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, obviously, things could change drastically with BW, IW, and further exploration.
when the AI settles like that so that we have to raze and rebuild. I guess here we're trading long-term and short-term: Getting the horses online ASAP vs. having better cities later. Here's my (first, be gentle) stab at a dotmap, taking a more long-term view:
Red could be settled now, getting horses, silk, and low distance costs. It would need a border pop, but then, so would the desert tile.
The purpose for Red's spot not being 1 more W is to allow blue - fish, corn, horses, 3 grassland, 5 coast, coastal. The rest of the land isn't great, but the
can turn the food from the fish and corn into hammers. Meanwhile, the second border pop (if red isn't already there) would give you control of the peninsula, which might be a big advantage later.Yellow could then be settled once you have iron working, to claim marble, gems, and dye.
As I mentioned, this is my first ever stab at dotmapping from scratch, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, obviously, things could change drastically with BW, IW, and further exploration.
i bet quin is gonna settle some of the green and pink spots. All you realy need is the horse city and then just go smash face hard. Quin is obviously first. Even protective archers arent a match for imortals and using various tricks you can easily give you better ods(worker baiting sacrificing wounded units to drag the archers out of the city).
TRJS
Warlord
I reserve judgement, as I suspect Sisiutil will, until BW is finished. It always impacts second city choice.
Agree with BlueSox; you should keep long-term city placement in mind as well.
A 2nd city that grabs the horses right away is nice and all but unless you research sailing and settle near the coast - impossible if you want horses in the inner ring - you'll need to connect the city to your capital anyhow.
In other words: you will have to invest more than just a couple of turns to properly hook up the horses. Better to opt for decent city sites then and chop a momument such that the border can pop while you interconnect your cities.
Also, there's not all that much room for additional cities with Quin being so close. Hence, I think you should consider you third city as well; a poorly placed second city in favour of quick horse access may ruin that.
Finally, I think 1 additional, mediocre city won't be sufficient for an effective rush, even if there are horses in its inner ring. Immortals may be cheap but you do still need to produce them somehow. OTOH you'll want at least one extra worker and perhaps invest in a third city, so your first and second city won't be able to focus solely on immortals either.
A 2nd city that grabs the horses right away is nice and all but unless you research sailing and settle near the coast - impossible if you want horses in the inner ring - you'll need to connect the city to your capital anyhow.
In other words: you will have to invest more than just a couple of turns to properly hook up the horses. Better to opt for decent city sites then and chop a momument such that the border can pop while you interconnect your cities.
Also, there's not all that much room for additional cities with Quin being so close. Hence, I think you should consider you third city as well; a poorly placed second city in favour of quick horse access may ruin that.
Finally, I think 1 additional, mediocre city won't be sufficient for an effective rush, even if there are horses in its inner ring. Immortals may be cheap but you do still need to produce them somehow. OTOH you'll want at least one extra worker and perhaps invest in a third city, so your first and second city won't be able to focus solely on immortals either.
You need to connect horses asap, which means they have to be next to a city. Monuments and border pop just takes too long, you have to strike China fast, remember that they are protective which is not going to make your life easier!
So I suggest founding city 1 SE of horses, between horses and silk. Silk adds a little commerce (even that one is worth it, you'll have huge deficit if your wars succeed) and you can work silk, horses and hills after reaching size 3. It's a decent early game military city.
Some micromanagement can be nice, start building road to the city spot earlier and ideally you have just finished road to horses when founding that city. Build order for second city: barracks-immortals.
So I suggest founding city 1 SE of horses, between horses and silk. Silk adds a little commerce (even that one is worth it, you'll have huge deficit if your wars succeed) and you can work silk, horses and hills after reaching size 3. It's a decent early game military city.
Some micromanagement can be nice, start building road to the city spot earlier and ideally you have just finished road to horses when founding that city. Build order for second city: barracks-immortals.
Leventis
Warlord
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Wherever you choose to place the horse city, obviously be sure that it has enough 
with the lack of hills up there. Also, if you settle blue city there is no direct route to Qin - your immortals will spend an extra couple of turns going around the peaks, which could be annoying if you need to send in reinforcements quickly.
I'd attack with just 2 cities since I reckon Qin will found green city for you soon
, which you can take en route to Beijing. After the war you can settle pink and then yellow 1 NE of where BlueSox says if there's still room.
with the lack of hills up there. Also, if you settle blue city there is no direct route to Qin - your immortals will spend an extra couple of turns going around the peaks, which could be annoying if you need to send in reinforcements quickly.I'd attack with just 2 cities since I reckon Qin will found green city for you soon
, which you can take en route to Beijing. After the war you can settle pink and then yellow 1 NE of where BlueSox says if there's still room.
JujuLautre
Deity
My only hesitation about 1N of horses is that you'd then have two cities 1 tile from the coast. And we all get
I have actually a different opinion about this. Being an ex CivII player (where you had offshore), I also had this idea of never having a unused ocean tile because "one tile away from the coast". The more I play, and the more I re-consider this actually. Mostly because we (actually "I", but I think "we") have often to place cities having peaks or deserts in their fat cross. But we know that. And finally, what is a coast tile? It's way better than peak or even desert. Some time the same (because you don't want to work it), sometimes better (because... you work it
). The only disadvantage I see from this situation is that it always means "one tile away from sea invasion". But who cares about this, really? 
Obviously sometimes (often?), settling on the coast is a better spot. But I don't think that having "never 1 tile from the coast" as a rule is good actually. Sometimes it's better settling this way.
My 0.02c
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