Hackapell
Rhetorician
not to be a complete noob, but what is WFYABTA?
ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
BlueSoxSWJ
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 92
We Fear You Are Becoming Too Advanced - after you've obtained a certain number of techs via trade (depends on difficulty level), the AIs will refuse to trade with you anymore. (This is to prevent you from trying to repeatedly research one big tech, then trade it to every other civ for a whole bunch of different techs, so that they each get the tech they researched plus your one big one, and you get all the techs involved.)
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
WFYABTA isn't necessarily 5. it depends on the leader. mansa is a big tech whore (that's what it's called in the xml, tech_whore), his limit is 20, and he doesn't if it's a monopoly tech. they all have different limits of how many others have to know it before they'll share. toku needs everybody to know it! isabella's not that bad but she seems bad to me.
edit: oh i see you covered that subtly, popejubal, you put (or more) in there, but i'll leave this since i think it's more clear (and i'm addicted to typing. not posting, but typing *giggle*).
edit: oh i see you covered that subtly, popejubal, you put (or more) in there, but i'll leave this since i think it's more clear (and i'm addicted to typing. not posting, but typing *giggle*).
popejubal
Emperor
Well, I meant the 5 (or more) as the future leaders that we have yet to meet, but I'm not sure that 5 is a hard limit because I just played an independant Fractal Epic game on Monarch with some of the same leaders and I ended up getting a lot more than 5 techs from the "stingy" leaders... so I think that there may be something else going on as well.
Is WFYABTA 5 times the difficulty level, perhaps? Something else? Is it 5 * number of civs? I'm confused now.
Melon Head
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2006
- Messages
- 134
My understanding of WFYABTA is that it's 5 techs for the stingy leaders, but that thier memory wears off after a while. Also, it can be circumvented if the civ is friendly with you, or both of you are in the bottom half of the civs in terms of score.
BlueSoxSWJ
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 92
To get back on topic, it sounds like (from other people looking at the save) you can finish off China, so I would go for that, so you don't have to deal with motherland unhappy while you recover your economy. Don't forget to trade for maths first, since once you kill China it'll be a monopoly tech.
Whether to completely sit back and recover or continue war is a tough call. Your economy certainly needs the break from war, but Immortals may well be pretty much obsolete by the time the economy recovers. Don't forget, though, that if you go to war, you lose some foreign trade routes, as well.
As for WFYABTA and all that: I read somewhere that the limit is dependent on the leader and difficulty level, but each time you advance an era, all AI civs "forget" about 1 trade. As mentioned, it is waived entirely if you're friendly with the other civ or if you're both in the bottom half of the scoreboard (but the trades still count for other leaders and if the condition in question changes).
edit:
Whether to completely sit back and recover or continue war is a tough call. Your economy certainly needs the break from war, but Immortals may well be pretty much obsolete by the time the economy recovers. Don't forget, though, that if you go to war, you lose some foreign trade routes, as well.
As for WFYABTA and all that: I read somewhere that the limit is dependent on the leader and difficulty level, but each time you advance an era, all AI civs "forget" about 1 trade. As mentioned, it is waived entirely if you're friendly with the other civ or if you're both in the bottom half of the scoreboard (but the trades still count for other leaders and if the condition in question changes).
edit:
VoiceOfUnreason said:
Sorry I'm late to the party...
I wouldn't worry too much about your economy, as long as you can maintain a positive cash flow at 10% you won't crash completely. That said, you probably can't afford any more cities right now.
Sign peace with Qin, take Maths if you can get it. Trade for the techs you don't have (try and get Mono from Izzy...heh...if you can.) Research Currency, whip granaries & libraries like crazy, get the gold hooked up, and your economy will recover in no time. (Merely pulling back your army will save a TON of cash!)
As for the next target...hmm. HC is the biggest long-term threat, but I'd be very wary of GK. Genghis has nowhere left to expand which means he WILL be declaring on somebody very soon -- probably you. (Or maybe Qin, if you leave him alone with one city.)
Funny how Izzy doesn't have Agriculture, I'd love to see what she'll trade you for that.
I wouldn't worry too much about your economy, as long as you can maintain a positive cash flow at 10% you won't crash completely. That said, you probably can't afford any more cities right now.
Sign peace with Qin, take Maths if you can get it. Trade for the techs you don't have (try and get Mono from Izzy...heh...if you can.) Research Currency, whip granaries & libraries like crazy, get the gold hooked up, and your economy will recover in no time. (Merely pulling back your army will save a TON of cash!)
As for the next target...hmm. HC is the biggest long-term threat, but I'd be very wary of GK. Genghis has nowhere left to expand which means he WILL be declaring on somebody very soon -- probably you. (Or maybe Qin, if you leave him alone with one city.)
Funny how Izzy doesn't have Agriculture, I'd love to see what she'll trade you for that.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
seriously, for all that WFABTA stuff, go to this thread i linked before, it has lots of info.
spleen1015
Regent
What does WFYABTA stand for?
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 5: 490 BC to 205 BC
I started the round by making a number of recommended adjustments. First off, I pulled my forces back from the last Chinese city temporarily, until I have enough reinforcements to attack it. Just to save a couple of GPT.
I also decided that if I was going to run a specialist economy, it was high time I hired some Scientists.
Only the capital has a library so far, but it became a priority build for the other cities.
First, however, some of them needed monuments for quick border expansion and for the +1
. The whip was called for.
I also whipped the monument to completion in Guangzhou. Beijing's was almost finished, however, so I let it ride.
Then it was time for some tech trades. I went off to see Huayna first and made the trade we discussed.
Then I went to see Isabella for the usual post-Alphabet catch-up trade:
Sometimes it makes sense to hang on to Alphabet for a while, if you have other techs you can trade. However, once I trade a tech to one civ, I think it makes sense to trade it to others if you can get something worthwhile for it. That way you get the diplomatic credit for the trade (as well as whatever techs you can glean). I could have obtained the same techs from Genghis, but I had an eye to keeping Isabella friendly as I discussed earlier.
Getting Polytheism opened the way to Literature and the Great Library, so I researched that tech next.
A few turns later, Genghis appeared to throw a monkey wrench into my plans to court Isabella:
Well, I can't really afford to go ticking of Genghis just now. He has metal and while I do too, I haven't built any units other than Immortals. So I caved. It's easy enough to make it up to Isabella if and when I convert to her religion.
While I had Genghis on the line, I decided to make a tech trade:
This was very much in his favour, obviously. I did it for the following reasons: (1) Since I'm trying to keep Genghis happy for now, I may as well accrue positive diplomatic modifiers with him; (2) the AI highly values Mathematics, so Genghis was probably going to pursue it before too long, and I may as well get something for it; (3) the trade routes might help my limping economy a little, though I only have 1 coastal city; (4) who else was I going to trade maths to now? Huayna already has it and Isabella's now giving me the cold shoulder.
Shortly after that, I had enough Immortals to feel confident about taking out their last city. I used two Flanking I Immortals, both of whom died, but did sufficient damage to allow two of their comrades (a Flanking II and a Flanking I/Sentry unit) to emerge victorious.
I razed it. I can't really afford another city just now and I believe it was Validator who pointed out that it should be re-founded later on about 2 tiles east.
I then set out west with the idea of pillaging some of Huayna's territory, but quickly changed my mind:
Not only did he have a Spearman there, he also had a Swordsman, and my Immortals would have a tough time with him. Huayna founded a city in his northern mid-west to get a source of iron.
I suppose I could have attacked anyway, but I would have lost nearly all of my Immortals, including my precious veterans. Also, most of my cities were building libraries, not units, in order to get the SE going. So, like the Persians after Plataea, I decided that discretion was the better part of valour and sent my Immortals home.
Things were better on the domestic front anyway. I was researching Currency, with my eye on improving the economy with trade routes, markets in cities (such as Goth) with Cottages, and following Currency, Code of Laws for courthouses. And I finished a helpful wonder:
That's a very good wonder to have anytime, but more so if you're shooting for a SE. I put the scientists back to work on hammer-rich tiles while building this wonder, but the GPP they built up before hand means I'll have my first GS very quickly.
And with the GL done, Huayna showed up and surprised me with his generosity:
Huh! Good thing I didn't attack him. The extra gold was very welcome indeed.
And I decided to give the Immortals one last hurrah. I sent them to that barb fishing village. I attacked, once again, with the Flanking units first. The Flanking I rookie fared better this time, surviving, no doubt, because the Archers are on flat terrain rather than a hill. Then I attacked with a Flanking II unit:
He won! I then was able to finish off the Archer the first Flanking I unit had weakened.
I was using my units with less than 10 XPs, notice, since those with more would not receive any benefit from winning a battle versus barbarians. 10 XPs, remember, is the upper limit you can get from barbs.
I also razed this city. Again, I'm thinking of my limping economy, though you can see that the research rate gradually improved as the libraries finished and I was able to run more scientists.
I'll follow this with a state-of-the-world post shortly.
I started the round by making a number of recommended adjustments. First off, I pulled my forces back from the last Chinese city temporarily, until I have enough reinforcements to attack it. Just to save a couple of GPT.
I also decided that if I was going to run a specialist economy, it was high time I hired some Scientists.
Only the capital has a library so far, but it became a priority build for the other cities.
First, however, some of them needed monuments for quick border expansion and for the +1
. The whip was called for.
I also whipped the monument to completion in Guangzhou. Beijing's was almost finished, however, so I let it ride.
Then it was time for some tech trades. I went off to see Huayna first and made the trade we discussed.
Then I went to see Isabella for the usual post-Alphabet catch-up trade:
Sometimes it makes sense to hang on to Alphabet for a while, if you have other techs you can trade. However, once I trade a tech to one civ, I think it makes sense to trade it to others if you can get something worthwhile for it. That way you get the diplomatic credit for the trade (as well as whatever techs you can glean). I could have obtained the same techs from Genghis, but I had an eye to keeping Isabella friendly as I discussed earlier.
Getting Polytheism opened the way to Literature and the Great Library, so I researched that tech next.
A few turns later, Genghis appeared to throw a monkey wrench into my plans to court Isabella:
Well, I can't really afford to go ticking of Genghis just now. He has metal and while I do too, I haven't built any units other than Immortals. So I caved. It's easy enough to make it up to Isabella if and when I convert to her religion.
While I had Genghis on the line, I decided to make a tech trade:
This was very much in his favour, obviously. I did it for the following reasons: (1) Since I'm trying to keep Genghis happy for now, I may as well accrue positive diplomatic modifiers with him; (2) the AI highly values Mathematics, so Genghis was probably going to pursue it before too long, and I may as well get something for it; (3) the trade routes might help my limping economy a little, though I only have 1 coastal city; (4) who else was I going to trade maths to now? Huayna already has it and Isabella's now giving me the cold shoulder.
Shortly after that, I had enough Immortals to feel confident about taking out their last city. I used two Flanking I Immortals, both of whom died, but did sufficient damage to allow two of their comrades (a Flanking II and a Flanking I/Sentry unit) to emerge victorious.
I razed it. I can't really afford another city just now and I believe it was Validator who pointed out that it should be re-founded later on about 2 tiles east.
I then set out west with the idea of pillaging some of Huayna's territory, but quickly changed my mind:
Not only did he have a Spearman there, he also had a Swordsman, and my Immortals would have a tough time with him. Huayna founded a city in his northern mid-west to get a source of iron.
I suppose I could have attacked anyway, but I would have lost nearly all of my Immortals, including my precious veterans. Also, most of my cities were building libraries, not units, in order to get the SE going. So, like the Persians after Plataea, I decided that discretion was the better part of valour and sent my Immortals home.
Things were better on the domestic front anyway. I was researching Currency, with my eye on improving the economy with trade routes, markets in cities (such as Goth) with Cottages, and following Currency, Code of Laws for courthouses. And I finished a helpful wonder:
That's a very good wonder to have anytime, but more so if you're shooting for a SE. I put the scientists back to work on hammer-rich tiles while building this wonder, but the GPP they built up before hand means I'll have my first GS very quickly.
And with the GL done, Huayna showed up and surprised me with his generosity:
Huh! Good thing I didn't attack him. The extra gold was very welcome indeed.
And I decided to give the Immortals one last hurrah. I sent them to that barb fishing village. I attacked, once again, with the Flanking units first. The Flanking I rookie fared better this time, surviving, no doubt, because the Archers are on flat terrain rather than a hill. Then I attacked with a Flanking II unit:
He won! I then was able to finish off the Archer the first Flanking I unit had weakened.
I was using my units with less than 10 XPs, notice, since those with more would not receive any benefit from winning a battle versus barbarians. 10 XPs, remember, is the upper limit you can get from barbs.
I also razed this city. Again, I'm thinking of my limping economy, though you can see that the research rate gradually improved as the libraries finished and I was able to run more scientists.
I'll follow this with a state-of-the-world post shortly.
Ankh-f-n-Khonsu
forth-speaker of Mentu
Nicely done. I wonder if this is true, though? I thought once any withdrawable unit reaches a certain lower hp limit they roll for the withdrawal chance, regardless of the sort of odds they faced in the battle.
For posterity, I think you are using your flanking two immortals backwards. Flanking two immortals should attack first not last.
I've played quite a few games now with the immortal rush start, and by far the most effective is to focus on flanking two immortals. My strategy now is to create flanking one immortals initially and then hunt barbs with the first few to get the one exp point needed to turn them into flanking two.
When you are ready to attack your first AI, you can generally count on 3 or 4 flanking two immortals. For the main attack, do not start with the flanking one immortals! Flanking two gives you a 40% chance to withdraw and an immunity to first strikes. These two properties are vital. Immunity to first strikes helps ensure your immortal damages the archer defender. The 40% withdrawal chance gives you pretty good odds of living to fight another day.
With my stack of flanking 2 and flanking 1 immortals, I start off attacking with flanking 2. Ideally, I have enough flanking 2 immortals to attack each fresh city defender.
Think of each defender as a seperate fight and you have a flanking 2 and a flanking 1 immortal at your disposal. You start the attack with a flanking 2. Given immunity to first strikes, usually the flanking 2 immortal can do substantial damage to the defender. The flanking 1 immortal can then generally finish off the defender and in the process earn a flanking 2 promotion.
I start the fight with a flanking 2 and flanking 1 immortal. 40% of the time I finish the fight with two flanking 2 immortals and 60% of the time I end up with a single flanking two immortal. In any event, I usually have lost at most a single flanking two immortal to take out a entrenched archer and in the process at least replaced my flanking two immortal.
This has turned into a very powerful approach to early immortal rushes even against protective CIVs.
GS
I've played quite a few games now with the immortal rush start, and by far the most effective is to focus on flanking two immortals. My strategy now is to create flanking one immortals initially and then hunt barbs with the first few to get the one exp point needed to turn them into flanking two.
When you are ready to attack your first AI, you can generally count on 3 or 4 flanking two immortals. For the main attack, do not start with the flanking one immortals! Flanking two gives you a 40% chance to withdraw and an immunity to first strikes. These two properties are vital. Immunity to first strikes helps ensure your immortal damages the archer defender. The 40% withdrawal chance gives you pretty good odds of living to fight another day.
With my stack of flanking 2 and flanking 1 immortals, I start off attacking with flanking 2. Ideally, I have enough flanking 2 immortals to attack each fresh city defender.
Think of each defender as a seperate fight and you have a flanking 2 and a flanking 1 immortal at your disposal. You start the attack with a flanking 2. Given immunity to first strikes, usually the flanking 2 immortal can do substantial damage to the defender. The flanking 1 immortal can then generally finish off the defender and in the process earn a flanking 2 promotion.
I start the fight with a flanking 2 and flanking 1 immortal. 40% of the time I finish the fight with two flanking 2 immortals and 60% of the time I end up with a single flanking two immortal. In any event, I usually have lost at most a single flanking two immortal to take out a entrenched archer and in the process at least replaced my flanking two immortal.
This has turned into a very powerful approach to early immortal rushes even against protective CIVs.
GS
r_rolo1
King of myself
Good play so far. Just a few issues:
1- Genghis looks locked. Probably ( in the the best case scenario ) he'll try to colonize the site where xian was and/or attack you. The guy doesn't have HBR ( yet ) ,but ... At least he hates Izzy more than you ( and he loves the Inca bastard
)
2- Capac is starting to run away. Somehow he must be stopped ( and he has elephants ... and is not so far from construction ( i'm betting that he is researching it ) ). I really don't know if you can afford to wait to attack him much longer
3- 200 BC + 4 religions founded in your continent and not a single one in your cities? Bad luck, methinks. You can't even convert Genghis to a non-Buddist non-Hindu religion and spice things even more between him and Izzy and to break his frienship whit Capac .... and +1 ( of the temple) and the 10% research of the monastery would be welcome.
4- Good to see that you are entering in full SE mode. It was the only way to manage the situation of your over expanded empire
I believe that the next few turns will be critical. If Capac gets War elephants, the Immortals can't do a pillage war anymore, and his catapults won't help neither. When Genghis get his UU, he will try to buzz someone ( maybe Izzy, but you are closer...). In the moment you can't bribe Genghis to war, but maybe if you get some + in the diplo ( maybe gifting Wheat to him could help) that could be done. About Capac ... if you let him free, it could mean trouble. Maybe a phoney war to try to drag him ... ( very risky, I believe ). In any case, build spears; you'll need them, most surely.
1- Genghis looks locked. Probably ( in the the best case scenario ) he'll try to colonize the site where xian was and/or attack you. The guy doesn't have HBR ( yet ) ,but ... At least he hates Izzy more than you ( and he loves the Inca bastard
)2- Capac is starting to run away. Somehow he must be stopped ( and he has elephants ... and is not so far from construction ( i'm betting that he is researching it ) ). I really don't know if you can afford to wait to attack him much longer
3- 200 BC + 4 religions founded in your continent and not a single one in your cities? Bad luck, methinks. You can't even convert Genghis to a non-Buddist non-Hindu religion and spice things even more between him and Izzy and to break his frienship whit Capac .... and +1
( of the temple) and the 10% research of the monastery would be welcome.4- Good to see that you are entering in full SE mode. It was the only way to manage the situation of your over expanded empire
I believe that the next few turns will be critical. If Capac gets War elephants, the Immortals can't do a pillage war anymore, and his catapults won't help neither. When Genghis get his UU, he will try to buzz someone ( maybe Izzy, but you are closer...). In the moment you can't bribe Genghis to war, but maybe if you get some + in the diplo ( maybe gifting Wheat to him could help) that could be done. About Capac ... if you let him free, it could mean trouble. Maybe a phoney war to try to drag him ... ( very risky, I believe ). In any case, build spears; you'll need them, most surely.
Tyrant Roger
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 203
After good service v. the Chinese the days of the Immortals are over.
By the time you would be ready to attack again both of your neighbors will have spears and maybe even pikes or elephants. Death to Immortals.
While normally I agree that your next target should be the strongest AI - Inca - I would recommend you attack Genghis instead. He is just too dangerous a neighbor to have penned up on a peninsula on your flank.
All efforts should now focus on building your economy and preparing for the attack on GK. Also have a settler ready to claim those gold mines near the last Chinese city, but don't build the city until you have to or until you are ready to take the maintenance hit.
By the time you would be ready to attack again both of your neighbors will have spears and maybe even pikes or elephants. Death to Immortals.While normally I agree that your next target should be the strongest AI - Inca - I would recommend you attack Genghis instead. He is just too dangerous a neighbor to have penned up on a peninsula on your flank.
All efforts should now focus on building your economy and preparing for the attack on GK. Also have a settler ready to claim those gold mines near the last Chinese city, but don't build the city until you have to or until you are ready to take the maintenance hit.
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
I don't think I agree with this. Having Genghis penned up on a peninsula is great. There are only 2 cities that we need to defend from him -- the former barbarian city and the one near the mountains that's cutting off his access to the south (Perseopolis or Pasargadae, whichever isn't the capital). As long as that city doesn't fall, he can't get to any of the others except by water.
Huayna, on the other hand, can be expected to have war elephants soon and can easily attack almost any Persian city with the possible exception of two that are holding the Mongolian border.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
The State of the World, 205 BC
Let's start off with a look at the map of Persia's immediate vicinity:
Focusing in on the capital for a moment, you can see that I have a Great Scientist due in 4 turns:
How should he be used? An Academy? or Lightbulb? At this point, IIRC, he'll lightbulb Compass. No one else has it, so it could be useful for trading, though Huayna is my sole tech partner and all I can get for it would be Monarchy--then again, that's a handy tech for me, increasing happiness and allowing me to work that wine tile between Beijing and Guangzhou once my borders pop over it.
The domestic advisor:
So once the libraries are in place, it's barracks and then units. I'm anticipating war.
Speaking of which, the foreign relations sitch:
So no one's really fond of me right now. I have Hinduism in one city, Beijing, so I could convert and court Huayna. Isabella's ticked at me anyway. That would point to Genghis as my next target. He's currently the low man on the scoreboard and the furthest behind in techs. On the other hand, Huayna could start running away with the game and be a formidable force to be reckoned with once he gets Construction, as r_rolo1 pointed out.
The tech situation, first vis-a-vis Genghis:
Compared to Isabella:
Yes, she loves those religious techs, doesn't she?
And compared to Huayna:
Now, what to do with all that gold? Should I pump up the slider and gain a couple of techs rapidly, or should I save it for unit upgrades?
The military advisor:
So a few battles are required for the next Great General. And my armed forces currently consist entirely of Immortals. Not bad for the beginning of the game, but with the appearance of Spearmen and Swordsmen, I think their day is done.
The power graph:
I've been keeping up but now I'm starting to fall behind. Well, that's because I started building libraries (including the Great one) everywhere. As I said above, I'll be making up for that shortly, but I'll be focusing on Spearmen and Axemen for awhile to shore up my defenses against enemy mounted units and swords. Then I think I'll need several Swordsmen if I want to go after anyone.
Demographics:
Nothing too surprising there, though I am #1 in land area, an interesting achievement. Will the SE enable me to found any more cities? I'm thinking of that double-gold city 2W of where Xian used to be.
And finally, a look at one tech that interests me:
I was wondering if I should switch to Metal Casting for tech trading purposes. After all, Huayna and Isabella have the next three techs I've targeted, the 3 economic Cs (Currency, Code of Laws, Calendar). Mind you, neither Izzy nor Huayna is willing to trade any of those just yet, so it would be a gamble.
The really big question, though, is who to go after next. Huayna or Genghis? I could convert to Hinduism and keep Huayna off my back for some time to come, leaving me free and clear to war against Genghis. However, by the time I'm done, I could be facing a very advanced Incan empire. Genghis is already falling behind and will keep. The problem is that he might decide to attack me if I go after Huayna, and my most vulnerable city (Goth, with its cottages and eventual plantations) is his nearest target.
Let's start off with a look at the map of Persia's immediate vicinity:
Focusing in on the capital for a moment, you can see that I have a Great Scientist due in 4 turns:
How should he be used? An Academy? or Lightbulb? At this point, IIRC, he'll lightbulb Compass. No one else has it, so it could be useful for trading, though Huayna is my sole tech partner and all I can get for it would be Monarchy--then again, that's a handy tech for me, increasing happiness and allowing me to work that wine tile between Beijing and Guangzhou once my borders pop over it.
The domestic advisor:
So once the libraries are in place, it's barracks and then units. I'm anticipating war.
Speaking of which, the foreign relations sitch:
So no one's really fond of me right now. I have Hinduism in one city, Beijing, so I could convert and court Huayna. Isabella's ticked at me anyway. That would point to Genghis as my next target. He's currently the low man on the scoreboard and the furthest behind in techs. On the other hand, Huayna could start running away with the game and be a formidable force to be reckoned with once he gets Construction, as r_rolo1 pointed out.
The tech situation, first vis-a-vis Genghis:
Compared to Isabella:
Yes, she loves those religious techs, doesn't she?
And compared to Huayna:
Now, what to do with all that gold? Should I pump up the slider and gain a couple of techs rapidly, or should I save it for unit upgrades?
The military advisor:
So a few battles are required for the next Great General. And my armed forces currently consist entirely of Immortals. Not bad for the beginning of the game, but with the appearance of Spearmen and Swordsmen, I think their day is done.
The power graph:
I've been keeping up but now I'm starting to fall behind. Well, that's because I started building libraries (including the Great one) everywhere. As I said above, I'll be making up for that shortly, but I'll be focusing on Spearmen and Axemen for awhile to shore up my defenses against enemy mounted units and swords. Then I think I'll need several Swordsmen if I want to go after anyone.
Demographics:
Nothing too surprising there, though I am #1 in land area, an interesting achievement. Will the SE enable me to found any more cities? I'm thinking of that double-gold city 2W of where Xian used to be.
And finally, a look at one tech that interests me:
I was wondering if I should switch to Metal Casting for tech trading purposes. After all, Huayna and Isabella have the next three techs I've targeted, the 3 economic Cs (Currency, Code of Laws, Calendar). Mind you, neither Izzy nor Huayna is willing to trade any of those just yet, so it would be a gamble.
The really big question, though, is who to go after next. Huayna or Genghis? I could convert to Hinduism and keep Huayna off my back for some time to come, leaving me free and clear to war against Genghis. However, by the time I'm done, I could be facing a very advanced Incan empire. Genghis is already falling behind and will keep. The problem is that he might decide to attack me if I go after Huayna, and my most vulnerable city (Goth, with its cottages and eventual plantations) is his nearest target.
Tyrant Roger
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 203
This is a key moment in the game. You are right that a financial Inca if left alone will become a powerhouse before long and this argues for taking a couple of his cities and pillaging him back to the stone age with those Immortals.
But Genghis is no ***** cat. He won't get strong as fast as the Inca, but he is also not likely to nap while you throw your army v. the Inca. Is there any risk the Inca's will bribe GK into attacking you if you attack the Incas?
This is a tough call ...
Immortals running roughshod over Inca resources would be a pretty sight and the AI is weak at war tactics.
But Genghis is no ***** cat. He won't get strong as fast as the Inca, but he is also not likely to nap while you throw your army v. the Inca. Is there any risk the Inca's will bribe GK into attacking you if you attack the Incas?
This is a tough call ...
Immortals running roughshod over Inca resources would be a pretty sight and the AI is weak at war tactics.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Well, it would at least be prudent to prepare for both opponents.
Another advantage in attacking Genghis is that he's unlikely to have anything with which he can bribe Huayna into warring against me as well. If I go after Huayna, he has several techs he could offer GK for a military alliance against me, and the Mongolian would no doubt be very pleased to oblige.
What I could do is prepare for war on both fronts. I could send one or two pillaging stacks against Huayna to weaken him and see how he responds while fortifying Goth and, to a lesser extent, Pesergadae with several defensive units (Spearmen and Axemen).
If GK then gets involved in the fray I can pull back and turtle things out until I can make peace with one of them to focus on the other. If GK sits it out, though, I could build up towards attacking Huayna's cities. I may even be able to bribe Isabella into fighting him, since I have a couple of choice techs over her, and she dislikes the heathen next door.
Along those lines, I could, of course, bribe Izzy into attacking Huayna first, then pounce on him once he has his attention (and focus) in the west.
Either way, however, I don't think I should attack anyone for a few turns yet. I need to get the libraries completed then start on barracks and churn out several more units, mainly Axes and Spears and send equal numbers of each north and west. If I target Huayna, it would be nice to get Monarchy from him first, which argues towards using my imminent GS to lighbulb a tech.
Another advantage in attacking Genghis is that he's unlikely to have anything with which he can bribe Huayna into warring against me as well. If I go after Huayna, he has several techs he could offer GK for a military alliance against me, and the Mongolian would no doubt be very pleased to oblige.
What I could do is prepare for war on both fronts. I could send one or two pillaging stacks against Huayna to weaken him and see how he responds while fortifying Goth and, to a lesser extent, Pesergadae with several defensive units (Spearmen and Axemen).
If GK then gets involved in the fray I can pull back and turtle things out until I can make peace with one of them to focus on the other. If GK sits it out, though, I could build up towards attacking Huayna's cities. I may even be able to bribe Isabella into fighting him, since I have a couple of choice techs over her, and she dislikes the heathen next door.
Along those lines, I could, of course, bribe Izzy into attacking Huayna first, then pounce on him once he has his attention (and focus) in the west.
Either way, however, I don't think I should attack anyone for a few turns yet. I need to get the libraries completed then start on barracks and churn out several more units, mainly Axes and Spears and send equal numbers of each north and west. If I target Huayna, it would be nice to get Monarchy from him first, which argues towards using my imminent GS to lighbulb a tech.
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