Some strong opponents, yes; picking them all seems excessive. I see the point that the map type, sea level etc all favour the human, so why not give the AI some bonuses by picking some potentially well-equipped enemies? I, and I'm sure anyone else, would be happy to roll a map and get it approved by the few people who really know what they're talking about.
ALC Game 20 Pre-Game Thread: Playing as Ragnar
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Some strong opponents, yes; picking them all seems excessive. I see the point that the map type, sea level etc all favour the human, so why not give the AI some bonuses by picking some potentially well-equipped enemies? I, and I'm sure anyone else, would be happy to roll a map and get it approved by the few people who really know what they're talking about.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Ahhh . . . errr . . . ummm . . . .
Well it was based on my experience; not on reading the code. Playing on Emperor I noticed I have run into a lot more Mansa, Joao, Orange, Ragnar, instead of say Saladin, Sitting Bull, Louis XIV, etc. But I haven't played a lot of Emperor level games so maybe I am mistaken.
I have played a lot of aggressive AI games though and I think it does impact AI leader selection. You will get more aggressive civs like Stalin, Churchill, Tokugawa, Monty, etc. Sometimes you don't even have one good teching civ. I also noticed in some games that when I first meet some civs in default they would be cautious but with aggressive they are annoyed . . . I've tried searching the forums to find some threads that back up my claims but I didn't find anything in the last twenty minutes. I searched for comments by Blake but couldn't come up with anything he said about Aggressive AI's effect on diplomacy. I don't believe the AI's have a bias against the human but I think there is some overall negative modifier. I may be mistaken and perhaps it is a result from having more aggressive civs but I don't think so. Anyone know more about this? Kmad?
It's entirely possible you're right, I haven't thought about it much, just haven't noticed any trends.
You're right about AI being harder to please on AggAI/higher difficulties. They also like each other more.. two civs can have a sum total of -1 toward each other after all diplo modifiers are taken into count and still be "pleased" with each other on emperor.
Hmm picking civs? How about Hannibal, Joao, Willem and Mansa Musa?
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
Edit: gah Bhruic types faster
i love that ori is so wise and helpful. i love even more being a brat and posting the answer quicker!that can happen on any level and even without AggAI. there are invisible modifiers so the true total isn't what's shown on the screen. gets in the way of calculating who they'll vote for in UN victory votes sometimes, i can tell you that much! one example, at one point in the last game Shaka was +2 attitude toward us and +2 toward Cyrus. he was pleased with Cyrus and only cautious with us, but that wasn't AggAI. it's not just vs the human. on all difficulties, Monty starts out with a grudge vs Gandhi that you can't see on the screen, due to warmonger respect. even settler ... poor Gandhi!
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
they'll probably build (far far more than) enough boats if you make some privateers *giggle*
ratrangerm
Prince
If the argument is that the AI doesn't play well on Archipalego, and that Aggressive AI just prompts the AI to build more units, and could end up with a bunch of outdated armies as a result, then maybe the answer is to pick one or the other, but not both.
I think Aggressive AI can still be put to use with Shaka, who comes after Ragnar, if I'm not mistaken. So maybe it's best then to forget Aggressive AI this time and go with Archipalego to showcase Ragnar's naval strength, as well as showing people how to go about with naval warfare.
Let's also not forget that Ragnar's Financial trait also makes coastal cities desirable, as you get more commerce from coast tiles, thus making the seafood squares even more attractive (and that's why I still say a Work Boat is the first build if going Archipalego... why bother to farm when you can fish and get commerce on top of food).
Then bring in Aggressive AI for Shaka, in which the only thing you want to do is war like crazy and you don't have to have a particular map to play to Shaka's strengths (but of course, I wouldn't suggest Archipalego for Shaka
).
I think Aggressive AI can still be put to use with Shaka, who comes after Ragnar, if I'm not mistaken. So maybe it's best then to forget Aggressive AI this time and go with Archipalego to showcase Ragnar's naval strength, as well as showing people how to go about with naval warfare.
Let's also not forget that Ragnar's Financial trait also makes coastal cities desirable, as you get more commerce from coast tiles, thus making the seafood squares even more attractive (and that's why I still say a Work Boat is the first build if going Archipalego... why bother to farm when you can fish and get commerce on top of food).
Then bring in Aggressive AI for Shaka, in which the only thing you want to do is war like crazy and you don't have to have a particular map to play to Shaka's strengths (but of course, I wouldn't suggest Archipalego for Shaka
).uncarved block
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2006
- Messages
- 351
Well, if the call is for a map with a lot of water that's still challenging with Aggressive AI, Hub with the Toroidal option would be a huge change for Sisiutil. Sadly, Hub is one of those disparaged "trick" maps, so the chance of this happening are nil.
As far as Archipelago vs Snaky Continents, I'd vote for the latter every time. Archipelago, besides the advantage to the human player, also requires IMO a lot of rather tedious micromanaging of units for very little reward.
As far as Archipelago vs Snaky Continents, I'd vote for the latter every time. Archipelago, besides the advantage to the human player, also requires IMO a lot of rather tedious micromanaging of units for very little reward.
TRJS
Warlord
My thoughts exactly.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
it's the pre-game thread, there won't be a start posted here *giggle*. the izzy pre-game thread went to 7 pages 
TRJS
Warlord
it's the pre-game thread, there won't be a start posted here *giggle*. the izzy pre-game thread went to 7 pages
7 Pages! I am sure we can beat that.
Quick someone start talking about the merits of CE v SE.
I;d rather discuss the merits of EE and whether this would be an appropriate game for it.
I'm pushing for ten pages. I think it's worth it.
I've returned from my excursion into Aggressive Archipelago Action, and it does seem a touch on the unchallenging side. I usually find Prince plenty challenging, but I've played up to 250AD (normal speed, mind), and I've got a pretty strong grip on my game, with a good but not superb start. That Financial/Trading Post combo is hot stuff on a watery map, and I'm killing the tech war without much effort. And with the circumnavigation bonus in the bag (I had to wait for open borders to get it - panic!), it won't be long before I'm killing the neighbours as well.
Great for me, as it looks like being an easy victory, but I think it'd be a shame for this ALC to be a walkover, so I would like to offer my humble, worthless opinion that the setup be nerfed a bit.
I've returned from my excursion into Aggressive Archipelago Action, and it does seem a touch on the unchallenging side. I usually find Prince plenty challenging, but I've played up to 250AD (normal speed, mind), and I've got a pretty strong grip on my game, with a good but not superb start. That Financial/Trading Post combo is hot stuff on a watery map, and I'm killing the tech war without much effort. And with the circumnavigation bonus in the bag (I had to wait for open borders to get it - panic!), it won't be long before I'm killing the neighbours as well.
Great for me, as it looks like being an easy victory, but I think it'd be a shame for this ALC to be a walkover, so I would like to offer my humble, worthless opinion that the setup be nerfed a bit.
Were you following the Gigamesh game? I wouldn't categorize that as an easy win!
I have to say that after generating and looking at several maps, I didn't much like the look of archipelago and I liked medium-and-small even less. I therefore might be attempting a snaky continents map, though I may leave the sea level on normal.
As for choosing continents, I kind of like the idea of including a couple of sea-worthy opponents like Joao and Willem, just to be different.
Have you looked at Big/small with islands mixed in setting and snaky continents?
especially the dreadnaught of the high sea...aka the caravel. I always chuckle at the number of caravels killed in the list at the end of the game. I have gotten over 100 before. some were killed when I sacked the city they were in, but most were privateer bait.
That was an interesting post CivCorpse, but I have trouble envisioning the vikings using such 'cowardly tactics' to defeat the enemy, they're berserkers for a reason! I say brute force and skill at arms, let the enemy know that the raiders are coming and let them tremble!
Cowardly? My SoD (suiciders of destiny) are brave men and women (but not the hot ones, they are spies) who valiantly venture into foreign lands to throw down the gauntlet of war. They stand staunchly in the face of the enemy hordes and pilliage the countryside. Killing the men and raping the goats (all the women are ugly since the pretty ones are enemy spies). Those few that survive are welcomed back to cheering throngs of men and ugly women (in case you forgot, the pretty ones are all spies).
Maintaining a beachhead later in the game is a bit challenging is you have to travel more than 3-4 turns from your troop centers, all those spammed units just never seem to stop coming. Especially if the rival continent is all defensive pacts and rivals. You can't pick the runt of the litter to attack for a base of operations. Though this is more a case for continent maps or big/small.
spies can pop guarded huts! they don't get rid of the guards, or any hostile villagers that come out of the hut, but they aren't seen by them either. you can put them on caravels if you need to cross ocean before astro to reach a hut
woohooo@kmad I didn't know that.
