All Hail The Jaguar!

[eldar]

The RNG finally let me play as Monty last night, and gave me a start I liked... so I finally got to play with Jaguars! I was sceptical at first. Okay, they're resourceless Swordsman-replacements. But they only have 5 And the rather useless Woodsman I promotion - my enemies live in cities, they stopped living in trees millenia ago! I guess they still get the +10% City Attack, and their free Combat I promotion, though. But... but... but... those batty slappy things! Yeah, baby! Watching them literally slap down Archers and Axemen is so damned cool! Never mind that Axemen are better all-round units. They only have axes. They don't have bats. All Hail The Jaguar!

 

[Leifmk]

Cricket bats with sharpened obsidian blades stuck in the sides. Wicked!

 

[eldar]

Cricket bats with sharpened obsidian blades stuck in the sides. Wicked!

Forgive me for enquiring, but how would a Norwegian come to know anything about cricket bats...?

 

[Leifmk]

Forgive me for enquiring, but how would a Norwegian come to know anything about cricket bats...?

Well, I know our borders are supposed to be hermetically sealed against all foreign influence, but somehow the criminal elements of society manage from time to time to smuggle in cultural artifacts from outside without getting shot by the guards. For instance such fine documentaries as Shaun of the Dead where a cricket bat features prominently.

 

[eldar]

Well, I know our borders are supposed to be hermetically sealed against all foreign influence, but somehow the criminal elements of society manage from time to time to smuggle in cultural artifacts from outside without getting shot by the guards. For instance such fine documentaries as Shaun of the Dead where a cricket bat features prominently.

I knew we were making a mistake releasing that to the outside world! By the way, the electrical goods shop Simon Pegg works in in Shaun of the Dead is just up the road from where I live.

 

[kristopherb]

I knew we were making a mistake releasing that to the outside world! By the way, the electrical goods shop Simon Pegg works in in Shaun of the Dead is just up the road from where I live.

cool im taking youve seen "hot fuss"

on topic
jags have a bad rep because lack of strength.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Jags are actually great.....IF there're plenty of forests. Luckily, the AI doesn't seem very chop happy...but, yeah. You also don't need any metal at all...

 

[SwordofStriker]

I played as the Aztecs for the first time recently, and I'd have to say I'm not displeased. I like the fact that even though you need the iron working tech for the jags, you don't actually need iron.

 

[bonafide11]

Nobody has mentioned the best part about the Jaguars yet even: They're cheaper than regular swordsmen! The same cost as axemen... So its easy to pump out a lot of them too

 

[Polycrates]

I've really really tried, but I really dislike the jaguar, especially for Warlords Monty.
Jag rushing has such a small window, and can be stopped dead cold by a single axeman. In exchange, you're accepting a remarkably crippled version of a unit that should be extremely useful for your civ.
It works if you're exploiting the default AI that just sits archers in its cities, but against BetterAI or human opponents, they really become fairly useless after that initial rush period since axemen are about the same strength and far less vulnerable. And they don't particularly shine as auxiliaries either, in the way that Impis and Gallic Warriors do.

It's particularly bad because the Sacrificial Altar is fantastic, and imo a far more worthy item to base early development around. By the time you've beelined CoL, you want the extra punch that swordsmen provide for taking cities, and it would be great to be whipping them out en masse everywhere to overwhelm the entire continent with your endless Aztec hordes. Except the Jag doesn't give you that punch, so it hinders the hell out of you and you end up whipping mostly just massed axes and racing for construction.
For an Aggressive leader to lose one of his mainline melee units to gain an auxiliary of dubious use, right at his point of dominance, is really unfortunate in my mind. The cheaper cost is negligible, but it's just enough to be an annoying hindrance to easily whipping away 2 population at a time.

I've used a modded Monty with just normal swordsmen instead, and he was devastatingly powerful.

It's a real shame, because otherwise Monty is a fantastic leader, and the jag is undoubtedly just the damn coolest looking unit in the game.

 

[Viperace]

The no-iron requirement for Jag is a double edge sword.

If we don't have iron, then Jag is fine...
Now what if we play Monte and we get iron! I rather want a vanilla Str 6 swordman, nevermind bout the Forrest I.

Maybe they should fix the Aztech by letting the players build both the vanilla swordman and the Jag.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

what i do with Jags is attack a city from a forest so if any of the defenders counter-attack, i am protected

 

[druidravi]

You can give woodsman2 if you beeline to iron working early and the Ai doesnt have metal . They will be like chariots which move faster on harder terrain than flat ground and have better strength than chariots and gain defensive bonuses +10% city raider bonus in contrast to -10% city raider of horse archers\

 

[CivDude86]

Jags are great from nabbing workers from expansive oppenents since AIs don't think the double movement in forest they'll let them keep working 2 spaces away even if a nice forest is between them. I enslaved so many workers from Isabella once that started to cripple my economy (why do I have to pay upkeep on slaves?).

 

[druidravi]

I stole 3 workers from shaka when I was playing as gandhi. I had a woodsman 2 warrior and shaka just discovering ironworking and started chopping jungle in a double gem city . Actually my target was lizzy , I was preparing force of chariots+axes for her and saw this and couldn't just ignore it. Then I declared war on Lizzy and captured 2 workers in first strike. All captured workers turn to fast workers , it was soo good. I had 3 cities and 9 fast workers, chopped the heck out of every forest tile to produce military while all my cities kept running 2 scientists each.

 

[Ankh-f-n-Khonsu]

Jags are great from nabbing workers from expansive oppenents since AIs don't think the double movement in forest they'll let them keep working 2 spaces away even if a nice forest is between them. I enslaved so many workers from Isabella once that started to cripple my economy (why do I have to pay upkeep on slaves?).

Because, sadly, we have not yet engineered slaves that are able to operate 24/7 without food, clothing, or shelter. Perhaps in Civ V.

Jags are good if you're in a position for a very fast rush, and are great defenders outside your city walls. As well, and as I think the UU Thread mentions, it's nice to build them, give them Woodsman II, and watch them race to the front.

The cricket bat is my favorite weapon in the game. I'm glad somebody found a use for such a device.

 

[Yeekim]

@eldar

I've heard claims, that sale of cricket bats in Estonia per capita is greater than that of USA or UK. And there is no one I know, who actually plays cricket... nor have I ever even seen anybody play it here...

EDIT: on topic: Jags ARE cool. They are quick, they are cheap... but ONE single axemen will stop your entire invasion force cold and dead.
I once played a game where my opponent placed his second city on riverside hill containing iron. The river connected his capitol and his 3rd city... there was no way I could keep him pumping out axemen. My poor jags...

 

[Dominico]

Jags are invincible if you know how to use them. Once you leave the jungles and forests though they are not so amazing. They are best in their habitat, and can make excellent defenders while attacking a city if there is any forest or jungle nearby!

I agree, i think they have possibly the best animation.

 

[eldar]

My Jags were doing fine against Axes by the end of that game. That is, my Jags with free Combat I & Woodsman I, plus Shock and City Raider II vs. cities on flat ground with no border expansion Fittingly the winning blow was struck by a Jag, this one attached to a GG that had built up City Raider III and the '+1 Move' promotion only available with GGs.

 

[GeoModder]

Escort your jaguars with only a few chariots, and even the all-powerfull axeman crumbles in fear.