All Quiet on the Civ Front

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Slavery isn't absent because of increased 'political correctness', whatever that means. I remember the advertising for IV, 13 years ago, and how they went out of their way to demonstrate that they would deal with slavery and religion carefully, that slavery brought negatives to civilisations and that religions would be treated equally, etc. The fact that they've changed the religious system so much that you can create religions named, say, Catholicism or Islam that use their symbolism but have features supposed to represent theology and doctrine in many cases that have absolutely nothing to do with those religions, and in many cases are borrowed from paganism or heresies, shows how this is just a complete non-issue. Only a handful of nutters would care.

Slavery is more of an issue for the obvious reason that there are millions of people globally, particularly in the countries where people play these games, with pretty resent descendants of an extensive system of slavery with a fundamentally racial basis, which has a legacy of systemic racism and inequality. But again, no-one cares that Europa Universalis IV has slaves as one of the main trade resources of West Africa, and that you can increase the productivity of that resource and build trade notes to export them, because its accurate. If Paradox brought out a DLC with a feature that elaborated the system more fully, it wouldn't be an issue so long as it was well-researched and advertised properly. A 'slave DLC' would obviously be tasteless, but changing the way certain resources operate, and reflecting on the unique and human nature of the slave resource, would be completely doable.

There are important reasons why V and VI should have slavery mechanics, if we approach it from the point of view that Civ games should have crucial aspects of human history included: slavery and serfdom, in all of the eras of the game, are incredibly important in all their different forms, especially in periods of economic and societal change. However, if this is the case, then the game should have much more complicated revolution mechanics; it should have civil war mechanics; it should have world war mechanics; it should have a colonisation mechanic; it should have a vassalage mechanic; it should have religious heads; it should certainly have migration; it should have ethnicity, language and dialect mechanics, etc etc. But when they make these games they make a very deliberate choice to prioritise mechanics over historical accuracy (unlike Paradox, who very gradually try to work out how to create mechanics for everything), and so some of these mechanics have never been tried and some have been dropped.

Slavery is absent from this iteration (so far) simply because they couldn't figure out a good way of doing it, and to be honest I think that's an indictment of the government system, which has been going backwards ever since SMAC/CivIV.
 
Not to beat a dead horse, but I really don't understand Firaxis marketing strategy. Waiting so long between announcements just crushes any momentum they could have built with the expansion. Allow me a fighting analogy: in MMA, some fighters stay in shape all year long and some other fighters balloon up between fights. When they have to train for their next scheduled fight, the fighter who stays in shape all year long has a big advantage because he doesn't have to lose as much weight as the the fighter who doesn't care about training and nutrition between fights. Firaxis marketing strategy just makes no sense at this point IMO. You'd think some kind of announcement around the anniversary of the game would be a great time to hype the players.
 
Not to beat a dead horse, but I really don't understand Firaxis marketing strategy. Waiting so long between announcements just crushes any momentum they could have built with the expansion. Allow me a fighting analogy: in MMA, some fighters stay in shape all year long and some other fighters balloon up between fights. When they have to train for their next scheduled fight, the fighter who stays in shape all year long has a big advantage because he doesn't have to lose as much weight as the the fighter who doesn't care about training and nutrition between fights. Firaxis marketing strategy just makes no sense at this point IMO. You'd think some kind of announcement around the anniversary of the game would be a great time to hype the players.

They just released the game on iPhone like last week...
 
They just released the game on iPhone like last week...

Sorry, I always played Civ on PC, so even if they released the game on ten different supports I wouldn't really be hyped for the game, not like if they announced the Inca for example. Does this kind of news thrill you like a First Look video?
 
Sorry, I always played Civ on PC, so even if they released the game on ten different supports I wouldn't really be hyped for the game, not like if they announced the Inca for example. Does this kind of news thrill you like a First Look video?

No, I don't care in the slightest about an iPhone or Switch version of the game, but they're clearly still announcing stuff for the game.
 
Then again, that horse can't be beaten enough in my opinion.
Ok then ( :deadhorse: ) :

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[party] Get hyped! The day after tomorrow ... First Look video: developers show 'modders first gate to paradise', the new Lua API ... complete list of Civ6 Lua Objects in detail described, ready for download ... [party]

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Slavery isn't absent because of increased 'political correctness', whatever that means. I remember the advertising for IV, 13 years ago, and how they went out of their way to demonstrate that they would deal with slavery and religion carefully, that slavery brought negatives to civilisations and that religions would be treated equally, etc. The fact that they've changed the religious system so much that you can create religions named, say, Catholicism or Islam that use their symbolism but have features supposed to represent theology and doctrine in many cases that have absolutely nothing to do with those religions, and in many cases are borrowed from paganism or heresies, shows how this is just a complete non-issue. Only a handful of nutters would care.

Slavery is more of an issue for the obvious reason that there are millions of people globally, particularly in the countries where people play these games, with pretty resent descendants of an extensive system of slavery with a fundamentally racial basis, which has a legacy of systemic racism and inequality. But again, no-one cares that Europa Universalis IV has slaves as one of the main trade resources of West Africa, and that you can increase the productivity of that resource and build trade notes to export them, because its accurate. If Paradox brought out a DLC with a feature that elaborated the system more fully, it wouldn't be an issue so long as it was well-researched and advertised properly. A 'slave DLC' would obviously be tasteless, but changing the way certain resources operate, and reflecting on the unique and human nature of the slave resource, would be completely doable.

There are important reasons why V and VI should have slavery mechanics, if we approach it from the point of view that Civ games should have crucial aspects of human history included: slavery and serfdom, in all of the eras of the game, are incredibly important in all their different forms, especially in periods of economic and societal change. However, if this is the case, then the game should have much more complicated revolution mechanics; it should have civil war mechanics; it should have world war mechanics; it should have a colonisation mechanic; it should have a vassalage mechanic; it should have religious heads; it should certainly have migration; it should have ethnicity, language and dialect mechanics, etc etc. But when they make these games they make a very deliberate choice to prioritise mechanics over historical accuracy (unlike Paradox, who very gradually try to work out how to create mechanics for everything), and so some of these mechanics have never been tried and some have been dropped.

Slavery is absent from this iteration (so far) simply because they couldn't figure out a good way of doing it, and to be honest I think that's an indictment of the government system, which has been going backwards ever since SMAC/CivIV.

The Paradox example is interesting, but bear in mind that Paradox is Swedish. Sweden was not a major player in the slave trade as far as I'm aware, but more importantly it does not have a significant portion of its population descended from slaves and I doubt race politics is as politically prominent there today as it is in the US. American companies are much more timid about that sort of thing than Europeans, and becoming moreso as racial politics becomes more publicly polarised.

I'm afraid it's naive to think that the US political climate isn't a factor in the reduced presence of features such as slavery, pollution or climate change in American games, Civ among them. Labelling it "political correctness" isn't especially helpful - American corporate culture in the entertainment industry is simply excessively cautious of doing anything that may alienate potential buyers, while it will fall over itself to accommodate sales-friendly fads.

Games from Civ to Magic the Gathering have a recent heavy focus on promoting 'diversity' insofar as that diversity is mostly manifested in underrepresented demographics that are likely to buy the game. In fairness Civ is a bit more generally inclusive (prioritising representation for groups like Native Americans who are unlikely to be significant consumers, for example), but in Magic and many other games whose creators have leapt onto the diversity bandwagon there's a pretty blatant bias towards favouring diversity mostly in the form of women, African and East Asian representation because those are the big 'minority' demographics in the United States - there may be the odd Indian or Polynesian somewhere in the mix, but usually in the form of good old-fashioned tokenism, since the point of promoting diversity in media is commercial rather than ethical - to sell more product rather than being an end in itself. Similarly, things like slavery that may harm sales with target demographics get downplayed.
 
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The Paradox example is interesting, but bear in mind that Paradox is Swedish. Sweden was not a major player in the slave trade as far as I'm aware, but more importantly it does not have a significant portion of its population descended from slaves and I doubt race politics is as politically prominent there today as it is in the US. American companies are much more timid about that sort of thing than Europeans, and becoming moreso as racial politics becomes more publicly polarised.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter, but from the outside (Dutch perspective) Sweden appears to possibly be the most politically correct country in Europe.
 
Update on twitter one hour ago about 2nd anniversary. Just a filler. Nothing worthwhile in it or hinting on future content.
One would suspect something posted on Sunday afternoon was just an automated post. I'd expect anything actually interesting to wait for business hours.
 
Only evidence for getting some big announcements next week is that X-com 2 got a dlc when it had an anniversary. So better not get too hyped up next week...
Although I'm happy that atleast something is worked at on Steam database.
 
Personally I think the idea that alternate leaders need different capitals is extremely unnecessary. It worked out for India and Greece, but it wouldn't work so well for other civs nor do I think it needs to.
Honestly the only other Civs that I can realistically see getting a second leader definitely have those possibilities. That is I don't see any DLC Civs getting another leader and not all of the Civs in the base game.
America: Philadelphia for Washington :lol:
Arabia: Damascus, Baghdad, Medina etc.
China: Beijing, Nanjing, etc.
England: Winchester could make sense for Alfred the Great.
Egypt: any non Ptolemy leader would have a different capital.
France: Versailles :)
Germany: Berlin
Japan: Tokyo, however I don't think they need another leader.
Rome: Constantinople (preferably Byzantines as their own Civ though and I think Trajan is fine)
Russia: Moscow for a Soviet leader or pre Peter the Great.
Spain: Valladolid for Isabella
 
Honestly the only other Civs that I can realistically see getting a second leader definitely have those possibilities. That is I don't see any DLC Civs getting another leader and not all of the Civs in the base game.
America: Philadelphia for Washington :lol:
Arabia: Damascus, Baghdad, Medina etc.
China: Beijing, Nanjing, etc.
England: Winchester could make sense for Alfred the Great.
Egypt: any non Ptolemy leader would have a different capital.
France: Versailles :)
Germany: Berlin
Japan: Tokyo, however I don't think they need another leader.
Rome: Constantinople (preferably Byzantines as their own Civ though and I think Trajan is fine)
Russia: Moscow for a Soviet leader or pre Peter the Great.
Spain: Valladolid for Isabella
Persia: Ctesiphon and some others :mischief:
 
Honestly the only other Civs that I can realistically see getting a second leader definitely have those possibilities. That is I don't see any DLC Civs getting another leader and not all of the Civs in the base game.
America: Philadelphia for Washington :lol:
Arabia: Damascus, Baghdad, Medina etc.
China: Beijing, Nanjing, etc.
England: Winchester could make sense for Alfred the Great.
Egypt: any non Ptolemy leader would have a different capital.
France: Versailles :)
Germany: Berlin
Japan: Tokyo, however I don't think they need another leader.
Rome: Constantinople (preferably Byzantines as their own Civ though and I think Trajan is fine)
Russia: Moscow for a Soviet leader or pre Peter the Great.
Spain: Valladolid for Isabella
Nara would also be possible for early medieval Japanese leaders.^^ Or Königsberg for an early Prussian German leader.
 
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