Alpha testers needed for Steph's mod 2

[cemo1956]

I'll try to see if I can find a unit to go there. Or perhaps I can make the spearman 2/2. Or the bowman 2/1 and archer 3/2? So the American can use the bowman as an offensive hit and run unit, with its 2 move?

Steph, have you consider this with hit-and-run units. They could be Peltast, slingers, javelineers, skirmishers, velites and such. Not much in attack and ever less as defensive, BUT they would be a historical correctness AND good for those that can´t make horse units in the beginning.

They will reflect the combat both with the likes of Alexander and the Romans sending out Peltasts and Velites to shower the enemy than running to cover. With 2 movement they will retreat if not facing same kind or horsemen.
Remember that cavalry was not a very high item in the early Roman warfare, so it would be a fun experiment to try this
IF YOU NOT ALREADY HAVE GIVING IT ENOUGH THOUGHT and descarded it...

I take it will be easy to find flavour units for most nations and this kind of unit will be popping up perhaps just before horsemen. At least very early...

 

[Steph]

This is already planned.
The question is not to find the correct unit, but to give it the correct stats, that could be both historically correct, and fun to play, with the limited options we have in the editor.

 

[cemo1956]

Steph,
the 2 movement will be fun I think, but then of course these units must be weaker than the "regular" troops like Phalanx and Legions. The Horse must be a bit stronger too.
I always think in TWO version of horse. Light a bit faster and weaker than Heavy Horse both wheeled. Skirmishers should have same movement as Heavy Horse, perhaps same strength as light horse, but not wheeled.
In my book these skirmishers would be like the modern day guerilla unit already in the standard game rules, but faster. Weak agile but fast able to move fast on many terrrains, perhaps even an early amphibious unit. The big point is that it should be weak so not the AI makes it an all important unit, but still finds an area to use it.

The skirmisher thought could then upgrade over the years towards french voltiguers and light infantry in Napoleonic times, whatever. I´m sure you make it a fine valued thing in your mod.

 

[Steph]

Steph,
the 2 movement will be fun I think, but then of course these units must be weaker than the "regular" troops like Phalanx and Legions. The Horse must be a bit stronger too.
I always think in TWO version of horse. Light a bit faster and weaker than Heavy Horse both wheeled. Skirmishers should have same movement as Heavy Horse, perhaps same strength as light horse, but not wheeled.
In my book these skirmishers would be like the modern day guerilla unit already in the standard game rules, but faster. Weak agile but fast able to move fast on many terrrains, perhaps even an early amphibious unit. The big point is that it should be weak so not the AI makes it an all important unit, but still finds an area to use it.

The skirmisher thought could then upgrade over the years towards french voltiguers and light infantry in Napoleonic times, whatever. I´m sure you make it a fine valued thing in your mod.

Thank you for all your suggestion... why don't you download the Excel documentation of my mod? It's a small download, and you'll see that almost everything you propose is alrdeady in

 

[Phlegmak]

Hmm... I think if you look at both improvment in the pedia, you should see two different requirements and cost, but same description.

No, Bastion costs 300. That's all it tells me. It doesn't say the costs for the other two buildings. I don't know what it says about requirements since I don't remember what it says and I don't have it in front of me.

 

[Steph]

I've just checked the civpedia in game.

Bastion: cost 300
Rampart : cost 90
Wall : cost 30

And they all share the same description.


Beside, I've just finished to add the British Air Force.
I'll finish their helicopters and missiles this evening.

Then I'll start adding the navy, then the artillery, then the cavalry, and infantry last.
Before I worked the other way, but I've noticed it's easier to add like that in fact.

 

[Phlegmak]

I've just checked the civpedia in game.

Bastion: cost 300
Rampart : cost 90
Wall : cost 30

And they all share the same description.

How the hell did I miss that.

 

[cemo1956]

Whatever I thought on I´m sure you thought about it already Steph.

However being an airman I just must know how to made the RAF upgrade line.... dying to know.

Hm still consider that the F-8 Crusader could be in the French Air Force. It served for many many years before the Etendards took over.
Oops did I miss that and you already had the F-8 Crusader for France... If so once again sorry ...
I will look over that excel file and keep my mouth shut until I got something you might have missed (however that´s unlikely)..

 

[Phlegmak]

Here is the civilopedia for Bastion. I don't see the costs for Walls or Ramparts.

Click for larger image.


~~~~~~~~~

32. With the extreme productivity of Mining, and the bonus resource buildings, and the extreme productivity of Irrigation, cities can become tremendously productive. Just beyond ordinary Civilization standards. Washington, at 13 people, has this: 58 resource per turn, 32 food per turn, with 6 surplus per turn, 29 gold per turn, 34 science per turn, at a tax/science rate of 40%/60%.

33. On the science screen, the icons for Naval Tactics are strangely messed up. I suppose the American naval units on that tech have messed up icons.

34. I doubt it matters. I mined a forest, cleared the forest, then the mine was still on the grassland. The mine provided 0 benefits.

35. I can't add slaves to my cities' population! Uncool!

36. I can build both US_05N - Native ship and US_05N + Native ship.

37. US_05I # Longbowman has no fortify animation.

38. The Andes 3I - Iron Spearman has 6 hp at Veteran. Is this right?

39. I built a Sacrificial Altar and I couldn't perform sacrifices of my captures Andes slaves.

40. US_05N + Native ship doesn't rotate to shoot its opponents with a broadside attack. It faces forward.

41. I'm having a big war with Andes. Constantly building soldiers absolutely wipes out my population.

42. The Mounted Warrior's attack sound effect is tremendously noisy.

43. Any reason why US_04I # Archer doesn't upgrade to US_05I # Longbowman?

44. I can build 06S # Settler as well as US_06S # Settler. Shouldn't the 06S # Settler be unbuildable? It also has no icon in the build queue. I can also still build US_01S # Settler.

45. The other continent is dominated by Hellas. They're conquering the whole thing (there are only two continents in the game).

 

[Steph]

Whatever I thought on I´m sure you thought about it already Steph.
However being an airman I just must know how to made the RAF upgrade line.... dying to know.

Air line for England (remember that I have to do with existing graphics, cannot put ALL the aircraft ever used, and have to balance things).

Fighter:
Sopwith Camel - Hurricane II - Spitfire X - Vampire - Lightning - Eurofighter

Fighter bomber:
Mosquito - Tempest - Venom - Tornado - Eurofighter

Bomber:
Handley Page - Blenheim - Hampden - Lancaster - Vulcan

Naval
Fulmar- Seafire - Seahawk - Sea harrier

Naval FB
Swordfish - Beaufort - Seafury - Seahawk - Sea harrier

Some of the lines just "merge" at the end

 

[Steph]

Here is the civilopedia for Bastion. I don't see the costs for Walls or Ramparts.

Look at the civilopedia for Walls or Ramparts then

32. With the extreme productivity of Mining, and the bonus resource buildings, and the extreme productivity of Irrigation, cities can become tremendously productive. Just beyond ordinary Civilization standards. Washington, at 13 people, has this: 58 resource per turn, 32 food per turn, with 6 surplus per turn, 29 gold per turn, 34 science per turn, at a tax/science rate of 40%/60%.

Just beyond? Do you mean they are too productive? Or that it's nice as it is?
What that your take level and what resources did you have near Washington?

33. On the science screen, the icons for Naval Tactics are strangely messed up. I suppose the American naval units on that tech have messed up icons.

I'll check, but they should be correct. American and French icons are done.

34. I doubt it matters. I mined a forest, cleared the forest, then the mine was still on the grassland. The mine provided 0 benefits.

Normal. Mines do not get bonus in grassland, only in plain. The fact the mine remain is harcoded.

35. I can't add slaves to my cities' population! Uncool!

I'll change that.

36. I can build both US_05N - Native ship and US_05N + Native ship.

I'll correct this.

37. US_05I # Longbowman has no fortify animation.

It's normal, the unit has been converted, there was no animation for fortify in the original unit.

38. The Andes 3I - Iron Spearman has 6 hp at Veteran. Is this right?

Andes has not been checked yet. So perhaps not.

39. I built a Sacrificial Altar and I couldn't perform sacrifices of my captures Andes slaves.

I'll check

40. US_05N + Native ship doesn't rotate to shoot its opponents with a broadside attack. It faces forward.

I'll check that to

41. I'm having a big war with Andes. Constantly building soldiers absolutely wipes out my population.

It does the same for Andes. Wars do kill people. Hence the necessity to have productive cities...

42. The Mounted Warrior's attack sound effect is tremendously noisy.

Flood Vuldacon with PM! So he makes new sounds for all my units!!

43. Any reason why US_04I # Archer doesn't upgrade to US_05I # Longbowman?

Hmmm... No...

44. I can build 06S # Settler as well as US_06S # Settler. Shouldn't the 06S # Settler be unbuildable? It also has no icon in the build queue. I can also still build US_01S # Settler.

It should have an icon (but only with letter). You should not be able to build 06S, they are just generic placeholder. If I recall correctly, US_01S (native) and US_06S (colonist) co exist for a little while. So you could decide to play "native" a little longer, mostly for flavour.

 

[Phlegmak]

Look at the civilopedia for Walls or Ramparts then

Ah! I see the confusion now. I think. When I right click on Walls or Ramparts in the build queue, it goes straight to Bastion in the civilopedia.

Just beyond? Do you mean they are too productive? Or that it's nice as it is?
What that your take level and what resources did you have near Washington?

I mean above and beyond what I would expect from ordinary Civ. Buildings which I normally consider expensive can be built very quickly. In your mod, 20 resources per turn is what I would consider normal for a city of 8 people. 35 resources per turn is what I would consider normal for a city of 14.

It does the same for Andes. Wars do kill people. Hence the necessity to have productive cities...

I didn't mention this before, but the war absolutely devestated the Andes population. All of their cities except two had only 1 population point when I conquered them. Two of their cities had 3. The Mexicans also have an abnormally low population right now, and I've never been at war with them. The Mexicans and the Andes chose Empire for their government, which I consider to be a very bad choice, considering that the hurry method is Forced Labor.

Personally, I really dislike the buildings that become obsolete, but so far, it seems to not hurt anything too much. I generally just don't build the buildings that risk obsolescence. However, I'm starting to think that Governor's Houses and Slave Camps (I forgot the real name of the building) are worth it. I did build Barracks in most of my cities though.

 

[Steph]

I mean above and beyond what I would expect from ordinary Civ. Buildings which I normally consider expensive can be built very quickly. In your mod, 20 resources per turn is what I would consider normal for a city of 8 people. 35 resources per turn is what I would consider normal for a city of 14.

Well, I've never been very confortable with using 200 years to build a library anyway.
However, if you think I should increase the cost of "modern" building and techs, tell me.

I didn't mention this before, but the war absolutely devestated the Andes population. All of their cities except two had only 1 population point when I conquered them. Two of their cities had 3. The Mexicans also have an abnormally low population right now, and I've never been at war with them. The Mexicans and the Andes chose Empire for their government, which I consider to be a very bad choice, considering that the hurry method is Forced Labor.

That's intendent. Figthing to much can indeed be terrrible for your population.
I hope the AI can cope with it good enough.
If you are in a productive spot, you should be able to get your population back relatively fast.
A long war with sparse resources and you are doomed.

Personally, I really dislike the buildings that become obsolete, but so far, it seems to not hurt anything too much. I generally just don't build the buildings that risk obsolescence. However, I'm starting to think that Governor's Houses and Slave Camps (I forgot the real name of the building) are worth it. I did build Barracks in most of my cities though.

There are only few buildings that can become obsolete, and they usually do not at a moment that makes historical sense.

 

[Phlegmak]

There are only few buildings that can become obsolete, and they usually do not at a moment that makes historical sense.

Only a few? It looks like it's around 40% of them.

 

[Steph]

Only a few? It looks like it's around 40% of them.

There are 93 different building at the moment, 23 can become obsolete, so it's closer to 25%.

 

[Phlegmak]

Some things to keep in mind, that may require tweaking to the game:

* AI doesn't handle terrain that's impassable to settlers very well
* AI doesn't handle wartime very well, when it's a big war. They deplete their own cities badly.

 

[T.A JONES]

Some things to keep in mind, that may require tweaking to the game:

* AI doesn't handle terrain that's impassable to settlers very well
* AI doesn't handle wartime very well, when it's a big war. They deplete their own cities badly.

Your doing great testing man. Just a thought on city using population points. Sure the nation may shrink durin the war but after the war they have expanded their borders! Its the price to expansion.

Ive seen a whole epic play out cool(no probs)with these rules but still Im interested in your late summary to see how things turn out this time

 

[Steph]

Your doing great testing man. Just a thought on city using population points. Sure the nation may shrink durin the war but after the war they have expanded their borders! Its the price to expansion.

And also, as when you capture cities they have a small population, you do not get such a benefits as when you
capture a 20 populations city.

However, I would concede that the mod is probably more fun to play against some human players than only the AI. Except for one thing. If you play the Americans against the AI, you know that the start will be hard, but you'll become much stronger at the end. But the AI doesn't. If you play against human player, he'll be aware of this, and may come at you early to be sure you do not make it to the end.

 

[Phlegmak]

46. US_06N # Caravel doesn't rotate to attack its foe. It faces forward.

47. Most of the technologies only need 3 turns for me.

48. CRASH.
Missing entry in "Scenarios\..\Scenarios\Steph_History\text\PediaIcons.txt":
ANIMNAME_PRTO_6I_Arquebus_US

49. I fixed the above crash bug, reloaded the game, and I got this:

FILE NOT FOUND:
"Art\Units\US Arquebusier\US Arquebusier.INI"

 

[Steph]

46. US_06N # Caravel doesn't rotate to attack its foe. It faces forward.

47. Most of the technologies only need 3 turns for me.

48. CRASH.
Missing entry in "Scenarios\..\Scenarios\Steph_History\text\PediaIcons.txt":
ANIMNAME_PRTO_6I_Arquebus_US

49. I fixed the above crash bug, reloaded the game, and I got this:

FILE NOT FOUND:
"Art\Units\US Arquebusier\US Arquebusier.INI"

I'll check the pedia errors this evening. For the 3 turns, that's something I was afraid of, I had the same in a test. 3 turns is the minimum time to get a tech.
I think they are not expensive enough.