Alpha testers needed for Steph's mod 2

[Phlegmak]

I'll check the pedia errors this evening. For the 3 turns, that's something I was afraid of, I had the same in a test. 3 turns is the minimum time to get a tech.
I think they are not expensive enough.

I'm not sure about the expense. You have such a vast number of techs, that I'm wondering if I can get them all within a 540 turn game. I'm at turn 370-ish right now.

I was wondering if my fix to the pedia file caused the 2nd crash. I don't know since I can't look at the game files right now.

 

[Steph]

It's true that with more than 200 techs, even with 3 turns a tech only, that's still 600 turns.
However, you are also supposed to trade some techs!
If you remain isolated and never make technological exchange with your neighbour, you'll be enable to discover everything.
As I think it should be.

The main problem I see with the cost, is if it is to low, then you'd be able to discover the tech in 3 turns, using let say with 20% science, and then you'd have to much money

I think if you are down to 3 turns, but still require 60-70% of your income to do that, why not.

 

[Phlegmak]

It's true that with more than 200 techs, even with 3 turns a tech only, that's still 600 turns.
However, you are also supposed to trade some techs!
If you remain isolated and never make technological exchange with your neighbour, you'll be enable to discover everything.
As I think it should be.

The main problem I see with the cost, is if it is to low, then you'd be able to discover the tech in 3 turns, using let say with 20% science, and then you'd have to much money

I think if you are down to 3 turns, but still require 60-70% of your income to do that, why not.

Typically, my tax rate is 60% or 50%. I have plenty of money and techs come at 3 turns. I'm not sure trading techs is a reasonable option, especially for the human player. AI players frequently refuse to trade techs. In my opinion, you should increase the maximum number of turns in the game to 600. Perhaps higher.

I suspect that something needs to be done about building units and their costs in population. Mexico is destroying its population during peace time building troops. Or whatever they're doing. The AI players prefer Empire over other governments, so I suspect they're killing a lot of their population through forced labor.

 

[Steph]

Typically, my tax rate is 60% or 50%. I have plenty of money and techs come at 3 turns. I'm not sure trading techs is a reasonable option, especially for the human player. AI players frequently refuse to trade techs. In my opinion, you should increase the maximum number of turns in the game to 600. Perhaps higher.

Perhaps.

I suspect that something needs to be done about building units and their costs in population. Mexico is destroying its population during peace time building troops. Or whatever they're doing. The AI players prefer Empire over other governments, so I suspect they're killing a lot of their population through forced labor.

I'd rather not remove completly the population cost for units, I think it's an interesting part of the game.
Shouldn't the AI stop building units if it reaches a high maintenance cost?
The maintenance should be more expensive than in vanilla IIRC, so you cannot build an army which is to strong

 

[cemo1956]

Air line for England (remember that I have to do with existing graphics, cannot put ALL the aircraft ever used, and have to balance things).

Fighter bomber:
Mosquito - Tempest - Venom - Tornado - Eurofighter

Naval
Fulmar- Seafire - Seahawk - Sea harrier

Naval FB
Swordfish - Beaufort - Seafury - Seahawk - Sea harrier

Some of the lines just "merge" at the end

Well this seam very ok, BUT wouldn´t it be better to have a line for the fighterbombers with the BA Sepecat Jaguar after the Venom then finish of with Tornado. Leave the Eurofighter as a fighter with good bombing.
Perhaps even more putting the Gladiator in the Fulmar place as first Naval fighter, then replace the Beaufort with the Barracuda or the Fulmar.
I don´t think the Beaufort ever took of from a carrier. It was like the Mosquito used from landbases to attack shipping.

As you say it´s all in how many upgrades one like to have, and surely too many will mess up things to be sure.
Hope you consider the Tornado both for Italy and Germany, just like I mentioned the BA Jaguar (haft French built, half British made or)

 

[T.A JONES]

On Stephs1 I undid all the pop cost for any mechanical unit in the game. (tanks, moter artillary, planes, etc)
This made the pop low when in actual times it was low(early days) and pop boom when in fact in did start to occur in actual history(ind revalution)

I havn't seen how the pop flags were placed this time around but expect its something you have considered. I know people were needed for tanks and planes but not in mass and % of country pop like early nonmachine formations took to produce

 

[Steph]

Well this seam very ok, BUT wouldn´t it be better to have a line for the fighterbombers with the BA Sepecat Jaguar after the Venom then finish of with Tornado. Leave the Eurofighter as a fighter with good bombing.

I have only two aircrafts in the line, and won't put 3 as the last era is already overcrowed. I've used the jaguar for France.

Perhaps even more putting the Gladiator in the Fulmar place as first Naval fighter, then replace the Beaufort with the Barracuda or the Fulmar.
I don´t think the Beaufort ever took of from a carrier. It was like the Mosquito used from landbases to attack shipping.

I'll use some of the remaining British aircraft for Egypt and India. Actually, the first naval fighter is the Swordfish, it comes before the Beaufort and the Fulmar.

Hope you consider the Tornado both for Italy and Germany, just like I mentioned the BA Jaguar (haft French built, half British made or)

Germany and Italy will get the Tornado with different markings.

And I may change my lines in the future, when (if) Wyrmshadow releases new aircrafts.

 

[Steph]

About the population cost:
What about making two versions of the mod, one with pop cost, one without?

Also, I'll probably remove some techs, as they are useless in fact.

 

[Steph]

35. I can't add slaves to my cities' population! Uncool!

Corrected.

36. I can build both US_05N - Native ship and US_05N + Native ship.

Corrected.

39. I built a Sacrificial Altar and I couldn't perform sacrifices of my captures Andes slaves.

Hmm... If you built the Altar, you discovered Ritual Sacrifices, and it Permit Sacrifice... Is there something else to set..
Oh, I see I forgot to check sacrifice for the slaves...
What other unit should be sacrificable? Some of your own units? Or only slaves?

40. US_05N + Native ship doesn't rotate to shoot its opponents with a broadside attack. It faces forward.

43. Any reason why US_04I # Archer doesn't upgrade to US_05I # Longbowman?

Yes, the 04I has a move of 2, the 05I a move of 1, but is more powerful, so I let you use both, so you have more flexibility in your strategy.

44. I can build 06S # Settler as well as US_06S # Settler. Shouldn't the 06S # Settler be unbuildable? It also has no icon in the build queue. I can also still build US_01S # Settler.

Corrected.

46. US_06N # Caravel doesn't rotate to attack its foe. It faces forward.

Don't know, the flag is checked normally.

48. CRASH.
Missing entry in "Scenarios\..\Scenarios\Steph_History\text\PediaIc ons.txt":
ANIMNAME_PRTO_6I_Arquebus_US

49. I fixed the above crash bug, reloaded the game, and I got this:

FILE NOT FOUND:
"Art\Units\US Arquebusier\US Arquebusier.INI"

Shouldn't happened anymore, I've removed the arquebusier from the unit line

 

[Phlegmak]

Hmm... If you built the Altar, you discovered Ritual Sacrifices, and it Permit Sacrifice... Is there something else to set..
Oh, I see I forgot to check sacrifice for the slaves...
What other unit should be sacrificable? Some of your own units? Or only slaves?

Only slaves.

Shouldn't happened anymore, I've removed the arquebusier from the unit line

Really. It wasn't supposed to be there in the first place?

 

[Phlegmak]

About the population cost:
What about making two versions of the mod, one with pop cost, one without?

Also, I'll probably remove some techs, as they are useless in fact.

If you want, you can make a mod without the pop costs per unit for the first two ages. I can test it out and see how it "feels".

I do agree that some techs can be removed.

 

[Phlegmak]

Shouldn't happened anymore, I've removed the arquebusier from the unit line

Tell me what you did to remove this unit from the unit line so I can continue my current game.

 

[cemo1956]

I have only two aircrafts in the line, and won't put 3 as the last era is already overcrowed. I've used the jaguar for France.

2 aircrafts ??
Fighter bomber:
Mosquito - Tempest - Venom - Tornado - Eurofighter
this is more than 2.
However I must ask what you did with the very special and ground braking aircraft Canberra...... Perhaps someplace....

I would have seen
Typhoon (perhaps Mosquito) - Tempest - Canberra - Jaguar - Tornado

Don´t get crossed I just have ideas as long as you havent closed the issue on these ... However I read the xls-file... Nothing in the latest on anything on aircrafts. But the update after the yanks did include some. I promise I will look more into this and give more creative ideas than this babbling about aircrafts. Sorry Steph.
I just think we got tons of BEATIFULL aircrafts from fine creators and in the pressure to get too many into your top-notch mod to be. The info that some techs will take just a few turns opens up the creator thing in the same way real world have exploded cosnidering aircrafts the last 50 years.

BUT I will restrain myself ....

 

[Steph]

2 aircrafts ??
Fighter bomber:
Mosquito - Tempest - Venom - Tornado - Eurofighter
this is more than 2.

I meant 2 where you suggest 3.

However I must ask what you did with the very special and ground braking aircraft Canberra...... Perhaps someplace....

I'll give it to India.

Don´t get crossed I just have ideas as long as you havent closed the issue on these ... However I read the xls-file... Nothing in the latest on anything on aircrafts. But the update after the yanks did include some. I promise I will look more into this and give more creative ideas than this babbling about aircrafts. Sorry Steph.

The EXCEL files include US and French aicraft, not the British yet.

 

[Phlegmak]

FYI:

In English, the word to describe people from Finland is "Finnish". I noticed you misspelled it as "Finish". There are some units in a directory that have that spelling.

EDIT: This is the directory:
Scenarios\Steph_Infantry\Art\Units

These are the subdirectories:
Finish Anti-Tank
Finish HMG
FinishInfantry

 

[Phlegmak]

50. US_03C + Horseman doesn't upgrade to anything. I can still build it.

51. I strongly recommend you get rid of the US_01S # Settler when the Americans can build the US_06S # Settler. The only benefit of the older settler is the cheaper cost. Otherwise, the new one is vastly superior.

52. Church (with the capital C) no longer provides culture after it becomes obsolete. They are still in my cities that built them. However, they still produce the two content faces. I'm glad for that, because if they didn't, I'd have to rebuild the church in every city. I think you should rename church to something like Chapel, or just something different.

53. When I fortify the US_06S # Settler, the graphic grows almost impercetibly during its animation.

54. The Cathedral looks really weird. I can build the cathedral in my cities, but I could never build Cathedrals. cathedral uses the Cathedral civilopedia entry.

55. I just build an embassy in Rome and they are doing PITIFULLY. They have NO buildings in Rome. The year is 465 AD right now.

56. Mexico lost Tlaxcala to me due to culture flipping.

57. Pollution due to population is skyrocketing in New York. It has a pop of 20 now.

58. Pollution is really bad now and I have no way to clean it up.

59. Why would a Newspaper produce an unhappy face?

60. Stock Exchange has no civilopedia text.

61. The pollution is now causing starvation.

62. Shouldn't the US_07N + Merchantman render the US_06N # Caravel obsolete?

63. It seems that the AI players like to go with Theocracy when they can. Mexico and Hellas are both Theocracies.

64. I got a notification that Britain declared war on the Greeks. (Wrong civilization names.)

65. Right clicking on Garrison gives me the civilopedia entry for Barracks.

66. My obsolete Barracks remain in my cities, eating up maintenance costs. I wonder how the AI handles this.

67. I noticed that I can build US_06I + Musket, US_07I + Musketeer, US_05C + Mounted Warrior, and US_06C + Mounted Shooter all simultaneously. With the 2 speed of US_07I + Musketeer and its fabulous numbers, I don't see any point in building the others.

68. I just got Piracy and I can build a 7I - Naval Infantry. What's this? It has no civilopedia description. Its numbers are through the roof though. 7I - Naval Infantry has no icon either.

69. Naval Infantry are so powerful why would I build anything else?

70. There are two specialists that produce money and both are available at the same time. Seems wrong. One produces 1 coin and the other produces 2.

71. The icon for the 06N - Privateer looks like a green transport ship, and I can build it at the same time as the US_06N # Privateer.

72. The "Greeks" declared war on me. Losers.

73. 7I - Naval Infantry are awesome. A 15 attack and amphibious assault.

74. At 15 people, Machu Picchu is producing 70 resources.

 

[Steph]

FYI:
In English, the word to describe people from Finland is "Finnish". I noticed you misspelled it as "Finish". There are some units in a directory that have that spelling.

EDIT: This is the directory:
Scenarios\Steph_Infantry\Art\Units

These are the subdirectories:
Finish Anti-Tank
Finish HMG
FinishInfantry

I know how to spell Finnish, if I recall correctly whose where the names in the zip I downloaded here.
But as long as it appears correctly in game and in the civpedia, the name of the files doesn't matter much

 

[Steph]

50. US_03C + Horseman doesn't upgrade to anything. I can still build it.

Well be corrected

51. I strongly recommend you get rid of the US_01S # Settler when the Americans can build the US_06S # Settler. The only benefit of the older settler is the cheaper cost. Otherwise, the new one is vastly superior.

It's there for "roleplaying", if you want to play a little longer as the natives resisting the invasion of the evil white colonist

52. Church (with the capital C) no longer provides culture after it becomes obsolete. They are still in my cities that built them. However, they still produce the two content faces. I'm glad for that, because if they didn't, I'd have to rebuild the church in every city. I think you should rename church to something like Chapel, or just something different.

Damned! It was supposed to disappear, so you'll lose the happy faces to simulate the turmoils of the reformation.
Perhaps it would work if I remove the culture bonus?

53. When I fortify the US_06S # Settler, the graphic grows almost impercetibly during its animation.

Nothing I can do here, it's just borrowed graphics

54. The Cathedral looks really weird. I can build the cathedral in my cities, but I could never build Cathedrals. cathedral uses the Cathedral civilopedia entry.

They both use the same civilopedia entry (same as bastion and walls). I don't know why you couldn't built Cathedrals. I'll have a check this evening. Normally you only need a Church.

55. I just build an embassy in Rome and they are doing PITIFULLY. They have NO buildings in Rome. The year is 465 AD right now.

No building?? What are they building then?

57. Pollution due to population is skyrocketing in New York. It has a pop of 20 now.
58. Pollution is really bad now and I have no way to clean it up.

Did you build the sewer and/or large sewer?
To get to this population size, you'd need major port or multiple stories housing. What is your tech level?

59. Why would a Newspaper produce an unhappy face?

Oh no! There was a flooding there! Look, the government will increase taxes!
Read the civpedia description, I think I explained it.

60. Stock Exchange has no civilopedia text.

I may have forgotten this one.

61. The pollution is now causing starvation.

Perhaps I should allow to clean pollution earler?

62. Shouldn't the US_07N + Merchantman render the US_06N # Caravel obsolete?

The caravel is in the "combat line", and will become obsolete with frigate, the merchantman is a transport

64. I got a notification that Britain declared war on the Greeks. (Wrong civilization names.)

I'll look into it

65. Right clicking on Garrison gives me the civilopedia entry for Barracks.

Same civpedia sharing as bastion and walls

66. My obsolete Barracks remain in my cities, eating up maintenance costs. I wonder how the AI handles this.

It seems to confirm that buildings with culture are not deleted when obsolete. I will either need to remove the culture contribution, or stop using so many obsolete buildings

67. I noticed that I can build US_06I + Musket, US_07I + Musketeer, US_05C + Mounted Warrior, and US_06C + Mounted Shooter all simultaneously. With the 2 speed of US_07I + Musketeer and its fabulous numbers, I don't see any point in building the others.

Same as before, you keep them if you want to play native a little longer, they are kept mostly for flavour.

68. I just got Piracy and I can build a 7I - Naval Infantry. What's this? It has no civilopedia description. Its numbers are through the roof though. 7I - Naval Infantry has no icon either.

69. Naval Infantry are so powerful why would I build anything else?

An old unit that shouldn't be available.

70. There are two specialists that produce money and both are available at the same time. Seems wrong. One produces 1 coin and the other produces 2

I'll check

71. The icon for the 06N - Privateer looks like a green transport ship, and I can build it at the same time as the US_06N # Privateer.

The 06N - Privateer shouldn't be there.

73. 7I - Naval Infantry are awesome. A 15 attack and amphibious assault.

Stop cheating: If the name doesn't start by US_, then it's an artefact from a previous version of the game and you should not have it .

Rule: if you play as US, you should be able to build only US_ unit (except for the starting unit, generated leaders, etc).
If you see something else, then it's an error.

 

[Phlegmak]

It's there for "roleplaying", if you want to play a little longer as the natives resisting the invasion of the evil white colonist

Ok then, but I personally don't like it. Leave it there for now I guess.

They both use the same civilopedia entry (same as bastion and walls). I don't know why you couldn't built Cathedrals. I'll have a check this evening. Normally you only need a Church.

At this point, I don't think this is a good way to do things then. I think you should make separate civilopedia entries. For example, I can't tell if Garrison becomes obsolete.

No building?? What are they building then?

I suppose they have been building troops all this time. I was thinking perhaps Rome was conquered by Hellas and then Italy retook it, but I don't think that's true because Rome has a Palace in it.

Did you build the sewer and/or large sewer?
To get to this population size, you'd need major port or multiple stories housing. What is your tech level?

I believe New York has both sewers. It has Multiple Stories Housing. It went up to 28 people. It had so much pollution outside the city that the population starved down to 18.

Perhaps I should allow to clean pollution earler?

I was wondering if you were trying to simulate the ecological damage of the Industrial Revolution with all that pollution and the inability to clean it up. Cleaning up pollution earlier would indeed be nice. I'm expecting to have some global warming by the time I get Ecology.

Rule: if you play as US, you should be able to build only US_ unit (except for the starting unit, generated leaders, etc).
If you see something else, then it's an error.

I forgot to mention. I can build two types of Pirates units. The US_ Pirates and the regular Pirate. And the US one is plural, unlike the regular one.

 

[Steph]

Ok then, but I personally don't like it. Leave it there for now I guess.

Well, you don't have to build the native units.

At this point, I don't think this is a good way to do things then. I think you should make separate civilopedia entries. For example, I can't tell if Garrison becomes obsolete.

I hate working on buildings...

I suppose they have been building troops all this time. I was thinking perhaps Rome was conquered by Hellas and then Italy retook it, but I don't think that's true because Rome has a Palace in it.

Perhaps, but I don't see why. Perhaps their population was damage by an intensive building of units, and they didn't grow enough to build improvment?
That's strange

I believe New York has both sewers. It has Multiple Stories Housing. It went up to 28 people. It had so much pollution outside the city that the population starved down to 18.

You are supposed to make settlers and relocate of your population is to big

I was wondering if you were trying to simulate the ecological damage of the Industrial Revolution with all that pollution and the inability to clean it up. Cleaning up pollution earlier would indeed be nice. I'm expecting to have some global warming by the time I get Ecology.

Actually yes. The question is, is it balanced? Was the large polution of New York normal, because it had a population to large for its own good?
I think at a point you should change your citizens, so they don't produce to much food and you can keep your city population under control. If you let a city grow to fast when you don't have the technology to control the pollution, you'll get problem.
Build an army to reduce population, use specialist... Create workers, get rid of some farms.
Actually, there are means to fight pollution already.
The real question is should it stay that way, and you'll have to balance things until you can clean pollution when you get to ecology? Or is it really not fun to play?

I would say it's an interesting simulation of real ecological problem.

I forgot to mention. I can build two types of Pirates units. The US_ Pirates and the regular Pirate. And the US one is plural, unlike the regular one.

Ok, will be corrected

I have a question. It seems obsolete buildings to no disappear from your city if they produce culture.
1) Can you confirm that? Did your building disappeared when obsolete if they had no culture? Stadium should have disappeared, but not the stadium.
2) If it's confirmed, then should I remove the culture bonus of some buildings, or it is better to get rid of the "obsolete" part?