Alpha testers needed for Steph's mod 2

Steph, I recommend these changes to your mod, if you don't mind:

Readding the population cost for units.

Increase the number of civilizations for the Standard map to at least 14. You have only 20 civilizations so maybe you can have something like this: Standard=14, Large=17, Huge=20. 8 is way too few for a standard size map.

By the way, units with the bombard ability are a pain when having to deal with them when they're in a city. I have accidentally added Bowman units to my cities when I wanted to bombard by pressing "B". Can you change the keystroke to add a unit to a city, or the keystroke to bombard?

Cheats which I have constantly taken advantage of: Sacrificing newly captured slaves to give an instant 40 culture.
 
I don't mind at all, on the opposite.

The units don't upgrade properly because I broke the upgrade chain when making America, France and Britain.
I don't want to waste time correcting it at the moment, as it's long and boring to do, and I'll correct it later when making each new civ.

A400m: Corrected
Jaguar: Corrected
Nb of civ: modified.

The Bowman should have the artillery flag in fact if he can bombard. But I did not finish this part, I wanted some feedback first, to see if I continue in this direction, or rollback. So, from your guerilla warfare attempt, it seems you think the Bowmen with bombard can be fun?

Readding the population cost for units.
So, you prefer with population cost after all?
What about using it for the main units and ships, and no cost for smaller units, like archer, small ships?

By the way, units with the bombard ability are a pain when having to deal with them when they're in a city. I have accidentally added Bowman units to my cities when I wanted to bombard by pressing "B". Can you change the keystroke to add a unit to a city, or the keystroke to bombard?
I don't think so, but I can remove the join city ability to the bombarding units, especially if they cost no population.
 
The Bowman should have the artillery flag in fact if he can bombard. But I did not finish this part, I wanted some feedback first, to see if I continue in this direction, or rollback. So, from your guerilla warfare attempt, it seems you think the Bowmen with bombard can be fun?
So far, I find the bombarding using these weak little units to be fun. (Note that I can easily build a large army of them which greatly increases their power.) The original American Bowmen were also very good (with the 2 atk). So far, I have been attacked by no bombarding units from the enemy. Either way, they're fun.

So, you prefer with population cost after all?
I simply wanted to try them again. When I played my last few games, my opponents (and me) all had huge colossal armies. The reason the armies got so large was due:

1. Mines are fantastic on hills and forests. Mined forests are pure gold. In fact, I'm thinking this would be better for the resources: Mine on a forest gives +1 resource. Mine on a hill gives +3 resources. Mine on a mountain gives +3 resources. Or you can also make forests unmineable.
2. With Slaves Market, Forge, Wind Mill, and Worker Housing, that's +200% resources. This coupled with mines allows for fantastic resource numbers even at population size 12.
3. Given the resources that are easily attainable, the unit costs are all relatively low. This means that many cities can produce a cost=40 unit in 1 turn, easily.

I remembered when I played the Americans early on, the population cost for the units was a pain at first, but it seems unique and interesting now.

What about using it for the main units and ships, and no cost for smaller units, like archer, small ships?
If that's what you want, that's fine with me. Your early ships didn't require population in the first place. I've wondered why the costs for ships was so low, though.

I don't think so, but I can remove the join city ability to the bombarding units, especially if they cost no population.

Really. I thought it was possible to change the keystroke.
 
So far, I find the bombarding using these weak little units to be fun. (Note that I can easily build a large army of them which greatly increases their power.) The original American Bowmen were also very good (with the 2 atk). So far, I have been attacked by no bombarding units from the enemy. Either way, they're fun.
I think it's more interesting with weak bombarding units, as I can play with ROF to make more difference between the units.

I simply wanted to try them again.
Ok, but don't forget every change has to be made to hundreds of units, so it's a huge work.

When I played my last few games, my opponents (and me) all had huge colossal armies. The reason the armies got so large was due:

1. Mines are fantastic on hills and forests. Mined forests are pure gold. In fact, I'm thinking this would be better for the resources: Mine on a forest gives +1 resource. Mine on a hill gives +3 resources. Mine on a mountain gives +3 resources. Or you can also make forests unmineable.
The idea was that if you exploit the forest, it can yield good profit. So perhaps it would be better to have forest = 1 resource, +2 if mined, than 2 resources, +1 if mined. Consider mine as lumberjack then.
Or simply 1 resource, +1 if mined. So you could see interest in cutting the forest down...
I could also make it 1 resource, no bonus with mine, but increase the resource boost when a forest is cut down. To simulate what many countries did: cut their trees down.

3. Given the resources that are easily attainable, the unit costs are all relatively low. This means that many cities can produce a cost=40 unit in 1 turn, easily.
I think I need to explain the idea behind the original concept.
I don't see why you need 5 turns, i.e. 100 years, to create a spearman unit.
I always found it ridiculous.
So what I wanted to do was to allow creating an army quickly, with units buildable in 1-2 turns, but using population, and with a high maintenance.
So you would need to prepare for war when your population allows it, create an "average" army that you can afford. Then, when you go to war, if you create a bigger army:
1- The population cost drains your economy
2- You may have to switch to wealth production to pay for your maintenance

When the war is over, you send your soldiers back to home (ie join city), or occupy the ennemy city (join city again, but with population of your civ).

However, it seems the AI doesn't handle the concept properly, and build a big army regardless of the maintenance cost or the effect on population.

So... I think I should increase the cost a bit. +50%? +100%?

If that's what you want, that's fine with me. Your early ships didn't require population in the first place. I've wondered why the costs for ships was so low, though.
Aircraft carrier crew: thousand
Galley crew: dozen
And see above about building units quickly

Really. I thought it was possible to change the keystroke.
Perhaps, but I don't know how, I never did that.
 
Ok, but don't forget every change has to be made to hundreds of units, so it's a huge work.
Now I feel guilty for giving you more work. :(

The idea was that if you exploit the forest, it can yield good profit. So perhaps it would be better to have forest = 1 resource, +2 if mined, than 2 resources, +1 if mined. Consider mine as lumberjack then.
Or simply 1 resource, +1 if mined. So you could see interest in cutting the forest down...
I could also make it 1 resource, no bonus with mine, but increase the resource boost when a forest is cut down. To simulate what many countries did: cut their trees down.
I think your first idea is good. 1 resource + 2 if mined.

I think I need to explain the idea behind the original concept.
I don't see why you need 5 turns, i.e. 100 years, to create a spearman unit.
I always found it ridiculous.
So what I wanted to do was to allow creating an army quickly, with units buildable in 1-2 turns, but using population, and with a high maintenance.
So you would need to prepare for war when your population allows it, create an "average" army that you can afford. Then, when you go to war, if you create a bigger army:
1- The population cost drains your economy
2- You may have to switch to wealth production to pay for your maintenance

When the war is over, you send your soldiers back to home (ie join city), or occupy the ennemy city (join city again, but with population of your civ).

However, it seems the AI doesn't handle the concept properly, and build a big army regardless of the maintenance cost or the effect on population.

So... I think I should increase the cost a bit. +50%? +100%?
I've realized a while back that many things in Civilization model real history incredibly poorly. Such as 100 years to build a spearman, or 20 years to move from one tile to another. An eternal ruler. Citizens who don't improve anything around them on their own. Anyway, I think it's best to look at Civilization as a strategy game first, rather than a history simulator.

I'm not sure what is the best solution to the huge army. Didn't another mod someplace make use of units that require 1 pop point per unit? I'd like to see how that one turned out.
 
Now I feel guilty for giving you more work. :(
Don't feel bad, it's part of the job. But perhaps in the future I may change only a few cir for such tests, and instead of using all random, you could select only the correct civ.

I suspect the B for join city is hardcoded in the executable.
Hardcoded? In Civ? Impossible!
 
By the way, while making the Germans, I've decided to remove the Knight / Heavy Knight. Now there's only the knight (stronger than the former knight, but weaker than the heavy one).
Is this the case for all civilizations or just Germany?

By the way, did you ever see the movie Braveheart? The English had "heavy horsemen" soldiers which were basically like heavily armored knights, riding warhorses, with big lances.

Another by the way, in the book "Claudius the God", the Romans used camels against the Britons. So camel riders for the Romans wouldn't be unreasonable.
 
Is this the case for all civilizations or just Germany?

By the way, did you ever see the movie Braveheart? The English had "heavy horsemen" soldiers which were basically like heavily armored knights, riding warhorses, with big lances.

Another by the way, in the book "Claudius the God", the Romans used camels against the Britons. So camel riders for the Romans wouldn't be unreasonable.

I think you should keep two types of Knights. One earlier perhaps at the time of Hastings or at least around 1100-1200. They had mostly mail armour then,
later (the last of the Knights) used those cumbersome "funny" looking plate armour suits. Guess in time of 100 year war, just before the first musket appears. They was the end of "armour" protection armsrace I believe. Then came the famous Reiters and such, when a bullit couldn´t be stopped by hugely armour "uniforms".
I believe BeBro made several fine units for both the early and late knights that could be used...

Those Braveheart boys should then be the early types that wasn´t incased in total armour....
 
Yes, BeBro made units, but they were only two or three techs away, so you upgraded fast from one to the other.

To keep them, I'd need to add techs to the middleage period, and it would be to much I think.

Perhaps they'll come back later if I'm in the mood :)
 
16. The sound effect is out of sync with the motion of the US_04I # Archer. Also, this unit has a range of 2. It probably should be 1.

17. I picked a fight with the French. At this time, my techs are at the beginning of the 2nd age. The French troops are late 1st age. And our troops are roughly equal! Yikes.

18. I've witnessed a few soldiers of enemy nations simply disappear. What I think is happening is that the enemy nation runs out of money to maintain its military so it has no choice but to disband. And then they continue to build more troops. :shake:

19. At the time that I get the US_06S # Explorer, he's a better defender than my US_04I # Spearman. Also, his civilopedia entry calls him a trapper, but his name is clearly "Explorer".

20. It worries me that the computer player is incapable of building roads to reach formerly unreachable terrain to build cities. Also, will the AI clear jungles to reach some formerly unreachable terrain?
 
18. I've witnessed a few soldiers of enemy nations simply disappear. What I think is happening is that the enemy nation runs out of money to maintain its military so it has no choice but to disband. And then they continue to build more troops. :shake:

Well thats one way of AI clearing out obsolete units then I guess :)

20. It worries me that the computer player is incapable of building roads to reach formerly unreachable terrain to build cities. Also, will the AI clear jungles to reach some formerly unreachable terrain?

Ive still got that picture from Stephs 1 that shows some AI behavioural patterns on maps stacked with jungle [wet/huge(190x190)/mid climate/continents]
Here it is
Spoiler :
JAWSO.JPG
I was impressed with how they spread out into the deep jungles!
 
When I said jungles before, I should have said swamps. Will the AI clear swamps to reach unreachable terrain?

Also, I can build cities on the tundra by building forests + roads. Will the AI do this? It definitely seems like it doesn't.

Unfortunately, this mod seems to really hurt the AI in many ways.


Another thing: I added the Artillery AI attribute to the bombarding archer units in the editor. I started my current game to try these bombarding units. The AI has never built one, that I can see.
 
After Germany (almost finished, just the workers, settlers, spys and armies to add, I'll do that tomorrow), I planned to do Russia, the last big civilization (with many ships, tanks and aircraft).

I could to Andes after that, so I can have a different civ for a change.

Or perhaps I could do it earlier... It won't have as many units, so it should be faster to do.
 
Back
Top Bottom