Altar of Lu nerfed - why?
- Thread starter Rhaego
- Start date
TheBoatman
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Messages
- 298
Because it was way overpowered. With Elohim particularly you could finish it insanely early, with much less effort than any other victory condition.
It's a shame that due to 1 (or 2) civs being able to misuse a game feature it gets nerfed for everyone. It also really decreases the altar's usefulness if you just want it in the game but don't have the AoL victory condition. Now it's kind of a why bother?
BCalchet
Human, all too human.
It's still a great wonder for that cost.
Compared to the effects of a joined prophet (+2 hammers, +5 gold), I'd get/upgrade the altar almost every time.
Compared to the effects of a joined prophet (+2 hammers, +5 gold), I'd get/upgrade the altar almost every time.
Kael
Deity
It was so effective that no other builder strategy compared for any civ. I feel its still well worth the cost (even in games with the altar victory disabled) but its isnt the only viable builder strat.
katika
Warlord
It was more than just a few civs. Any civ using Agriculture, Religious Discipline, and possibly Aristocracy could get a lot of priests for production, farms for population/specialists (unlimited priests with Religious Discipline), and research with the combination of great prophets and aristocracy.
The +Happiness in all cities, increased production for priests, and free XP for disciple units still makes it incredibly useful, just not too powerful. The balance seems to be good to me right now.
I don't even know what the Altar of Luonnatar did till I checked the Civilopedia just now. And wow, that's a lot of experience bonuses for disciple units. As well as happiness, and hammers from priests.
Now, the reason I haven't known much about it is cause Evil civs can't build it. Which raises a question in me. What does the Evil civs have that the Neutral/Good dont to compensate for not being able to build the altar?
Now, the reason I haven't known much about it is cause Evil civs can't build it. Which raises a question in me. What does the Evil civs have that the Neutral/Good dont to compensate for not being able to build the altar?
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
I tend to use the Altar as the "way for the AI to win". I was playing with the aim of a Tower of Mastery win earlier, but had left all victory options open. Two of the AI's got Divine and one even got Exalted - but then I talked one of them into attacking the other and they crippled each other whilst I got on with grabbing mana-nodes.
Got to say though - I love the mass-declaration against you when you get close to finishing the Tower victory. It really is an all round challenging condition - Mana node collecting (which requires quick expansion/conquest to secure land and possibly researching for Rites of Oghma), efficient construction of the minor towers, then unexpectedly (the first time anyway) having four nations declare war on you as you reach the final stretch.
I did finally manage to beat back the AIs on my continent and dealt with landing parties using a combination of the Nexus, Kithra Kyriel with Orthus' axe and an Earth III/Crush Archmage (5 Blitzing attacks against weakened stacks deals with most invaders quite convincingly). Still - quite a struggle for the win and I did feel I'd earnt it by the time the game ended.
Got to say though - I love the mass-declaration against you when you get close to finishing the Tower victory. It really is an all round challenging condition - Mana node collecting (which requires quick expansion/conquest to secure land and possibly researching for Rites of Oghma), efficient construction of the minor towers, then unexpectedly (the first time anyway) having four nations declare war on you as you reach the final stretch.
I did finally manage to beat back the AIs on my continent and dealt with landing parties using a combination of the Nexus, Kithra Kyriel with Orthus' axe and an Earth III/Crush Archmage (5 Blitzing attacks against weakened stacks deals with most invaders quite convincingly). Still - quite a struggle for the win and I did feel I'd earnt it by the time the game ended.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Ah, that reminds me--building the ToM, and Altar of Luonnatar, should definatly be trophies.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Really? Whoops. I thought just for each civ and the barb heroes. Okay, thanks.
It's not quite the same, but Sacrifice the Weak is easily the strongest speciality religious civic, and blends nicely with Scholarship/Caste pure specialist/farm. The Amurite post I started contains some excellent info (none of it mine, unfortunately) on how to use Dain towards this end.
Chandrasekhar
Determined
Yeah, it'd definitely be broken if the AV could build the Altar.
vorshlumpf
Emperor
They get all the babes. You know, the ones with cute horns and forked tails.
![[NWO]_Valis](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/110/110973.jpg?1475248361){kind=avatar}
[NWO]_Valis
A bad kitty!
I still think the priest production bonus is still too much. Instead of production they should get i.e. +1 culture at one stage, +1 beaker in another. Priests should never be the labour of ones empire!
Also it is still to easy to build it. I just do not like such early and easy victories.
Also it is still to easy to build it. I just do not like such early and easy victories.
vorshlumpf
Emperor
I agree. I never liked it with the old Prophecy of Ragnorok wonder. Just seemed too much.[NWO]_Valis;5505353 said:
I think this change just shift balance strongly into favor of neitral/evil civs.
(If one can talk about ballance in FFH)
Where god civs should get there shields now?
Evil/neitral have slavery rushing options, good civs now very thin on shields early/middle game.
I need to check it more, but that is my thinking right now.
My personal opinion is that problem lying in Argeculture civic, not in altar.
(If one can talk about ballance in FFH)
Where god civs should get there shields now?
Evil/neitral have slavery rushing options, good civs now very thin on shields early/middle game.
I need to check it more, but that is my thinking right now.
My personal opinion is that problem lying in Argeculture civic, not in altar.
