Always Peace
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
Alright I checked the save... first settler will go North since Sumeria lies up there... and I'll *try* to grab the game (could already be too late). It looks like there exists quite a bit of territory not near us which might not get settled for sometime. Maybe we'll get some settlers out there after blocking Sumeria off in the North and the East, and founding a coastal town. Persia will give us The Wheel and 116 gold for Alphabet, so I'll do that. I might buy CB from someone else... I hate to say Sumeria, but they probably pose more a military threat I'd think, so probably them. No rush there, I suppose. I'll go for a max on Writing without any sort of deficit. I think we've got great commerce for the time of this game. We'll hold onto Math until some techs start popping up, even if someone already has Mysticism. I doubt anyone does since you haven't noticed an Oracle build yet. I suggest embassies as soon as possible to give the other leaders an attitude check.... especially with Sumeria and Persia.
Concerning Marseilles and Paris... I don't think a possible problem will actually arise. At size 4 Paris works the cow, the mined bonus grassland, and the wheat for sure. We have 5 shields there already. If it worked an unmined bonus grassland 6 shields at size 4... but since it grows that turn and we have emphasize production on... 7 shields on turn 1. We get 7 more on turn two. Then 8 on turn three as we grow from size 5 to 6. Then 8 on turn 4... 7+7+8+8=30... no extra or unders there. I could say that you overmined Paris and then compensated by building Marseilles close so it could use the extra mine... but that's all in hindsight now and yes... I'd be acting like an ass. And Marseilles doesn't seem all that close really.
I deleted something about workers here... I was wrong.
I'll play tommorow... I feel tired.
Concerning Marseilles and Paris... I don't think a possible problem will actually arise. At size 4 Paris works the cow, the mined bonus grassland, and the wheat for sure. We have 5 shields there already. If it worked an unmined bonus grassland 6 shields at size 4... but since it grows that turn and we have emphasize production on... 7 shields on turn 1. We get 7 more on turn two. Then 8 on turn three as we grow from size 5 to 6. Then 8 on turn 4... 7+7+8+8=30... no extra or unders there. I could say that you overmined Paris and then compensated by building Marseilles close so it could use the extra mine... but that's all in hindsight now and yes... I'd be acting like an ass. And Marseilles doesn't seem all that close really.
I deleted something about workers here... I was wrong.
I'll play tommorow... I feel tired.
I hardly ever read those things. The English start The Colossus (talk about a late start on The Colossus). Another worker moves to chop towards the temple of Lyons.Oh well. If that's the worst mistake we make all game we'll be in very good shape. 
There's some articles on here (war academy, maybe?) about the rotation of where the shields go. Not that I would have done better.
Where is England? I never actually saw borders, which may have been an oversight on my part.
Any chance of a few screen shots somehow? Pretty please? I haven't the laptop with me today, which means no play until tonight, but I'd like to plan a bit.
Re: Lyons, I'd say getting a temple there is okay, but definitely need to start a prebuild after that. Right now I'm thinking HG + Smiths as our wonders of choice. If we can actually get a good sized empire going, Smiths will be handy (and it will be a splendidly timed GA, I think).
I must say I like our neighbors--only Persia with a UU that is relevant as far as we're concerned (I don't count the Incan scout).
There's some articles on here (war academy, maybe?) about the rotation of where the shields go. Not that I would have done better.Where is England? I never actually saw borders, which may have been an oversight on my part.
Any chance of a few screen shots somehow? Pretty please? I haven't the laptop with me today, which means no play until tonight, but I'd like to plan a bit.
Re: Lyons, I'd say getting a temple there is okay, but definitely need to start a prebuild after that. Right now I'm thinking HG + Smiths as our wonders of choice. If we can actually get a good sized empire going, Smiths will be handy (and it will be a splendidly timed GA, I think).
I must say I like our neighbors--only Persia with a UU that is relevant as far as we're concerned (I don't count the Incan scout).
"Where is England? I never actually saw borders, which may have been an oversight on my part."
I just saw them on my turns in the far north. They seemed to have quite a bit of jungle there. I'll try on screen shots. I expect you'll found something like 3 to 5 towns on your turns... unless someone else wants in??? Sumeria seems to get powerful in any game I've had them (very, very few of mine so far), but they don't seem all that big of a deal in this one. I don't like Immortals, but I can't say the Persians make me all that scared. Although... that Incan scout... well... I'm simply shakin' in my boots just thinking about that thing.
No rush on playing. With the pre-build we probably won't have to add in workers in Lyons... at least not until we have extra workers laying around ready to add-in. If it's pre-build misses the Hanging Gardens and a bad wonder cascade happens (worst case scenario), I'd think we'd have the Forbidden Palace available by the time the pre-build comes close to finishing the Palace.
I just saw them on my turns in the far north. They seemed to have quite a bit of jungle there. I'll try on screen shots. I expect you'll found something like 3 to 5 towns on your turns... unless someone else wants in??? Sumeria seems to get powerful in any game I've had them (very, very few of mine so far), but they don't seem all that big of a deal in this one. I don't like Immortals, but I can't say the Persians make me all that scared. Although... that Incan scout... well... I'm simply shakin' in my boots just thinking about that thing.
No rush on playing. With the pre-build we probably won't have to add in workers in Lyons... at least not until we have extra workers laying around ready to add-in. If it's pre-build misses the Hanging Gardens and a bad wonder cascade happens (worst case scenario), I'd think we'd have the Forbidden Palace available by the time the pre-build comes close to finishing the Palace.
I'll have to work on posting screenies better in the future. Still, here's something... I don't know how I managed to save the same file under two different names.
Believe it or not there still exists quite a bit of territory not captured. It looks like we have a rather large continental land-mass... all the better for us. I didn't find any new towns on your town, but with the settler screenie you'll see their plan. The warriors around the settlers probably will go to those towns soon enough, so they can get started on workers and/or temples soon enough, I'd think. Due to the chops and another worker produced, we can have the incense hooked up to Paris in a few turns, no sweat. I think we'll want to settle more east next. It *looks* like there exist a rather large patch of open land northwest, which *might* not get settled even by the time we have all the other cities from Sumeria to the Inca to the Persians and down to the southern coast. Although, we might have another neighbor there... too early to tell... and too early to plan on that really. We can still chop one more forest (excluding the one I've already started chopping) for the temple of Lyons, although I can go either way on that (leaving it gives us an extra shield available... we won't need this though once we mine the hills).
Believe it or not there still exists quite a bit of territory not captured. It looks like we have a rather large continental land-mass... all the better for us. I didn't find any new towns on your town, but with the settler screenie you'll see their plan. The warriors around the settlers probably will go to those towns soon enough, so they can get started on workers and/or temples soon enough, I'd think. Due to the chops and another worker produced, we can have the incense hooked up to Paris in a few turns, no sweat. I think we'll want to settle more east next. It *looks* like there exist a rather large patch of open land northwest, which *might* not get settled even by the time we have all the other cities from Sumeria to the Inca to the Persians and down to the southern coast. Although, we might have another neighbor there... too early to tell... and too early to plan on that really. We can still chop one more forest (excluding the one I've already started chopping) for the temple of Lyons, although I can go either way on that (leaving it gives us an extra shield available... we won't need this though once we mine the hills).
What do you think about a gambit of sending a settler north to pile on to that incense there? That would give us 7 incense within our borders, and would make it awfully nice for trading purposes (or bribes). I want to get the AI hooked on those like crack. The obvious danger is that it decides to take it by other means.
I think I am going to be very aggressive with settler placement this turnset. After that I think we want to pull back a little bit (not stop settling, but I want to try to start to set up borders with Sumeria and Persia).
I think I am going to be very aggressive with settler placement this turnset. After that I think we want to pull back a little bit (not stop settling, but I want to try to start to set up borders with Sumeria and Persia).
With cultural expansion, we can have the horsie in screenshot #2 and the game in one city. We do have another horse northwest of Tours. I suppose we can try for those other 4 incense. I've actually thought we might possibly grab the northern coast, the two cows and the game... if you decide to send the currently most northern settler to the north, the next northern settler to two cow spot, and the other settler currently out there to the game/horse spot. That does seem a bit risky to me though. It might come as only 4 or 5 more turns... but it'll mean Sumeria has a bit more of a window to get the game.
If/when we merge in workers somewhere... we could probably get away with merging in slaves since we've got only an Emperor level game. But, in light a recent Deity game where I lost the GL city NOT on the border to the Celts almost surely since I merged in slaves, I'd rather not use slaves... only French workers.
If/when we merge in workers somewhere... we could probably get away with merging in slaves since we've got only an Emperor level game. But, in light a recent Deity game where I lost the GL city NOT on the border to the Celts almost surely since I merged in slaves, I'd rather not use slaves... only French workers.
darski
Regent in Training
Is there any connection between the pictures that overlap? I don't see any points that match but I am not sure???
Okay. Played eight turns. I think we have some talkin' to do.
(Muahaha.)
Anyway...
1525 preflight:
CA2, Notepad.
Lux, check.
Tech, check.
Builds... check, except that (and sorry if this is controversial) swap Tours to an archer. I want a couple of those guys around in case someone gets frisky, rather than have to rush one.
Diplomacy/trades: check.
Hit enter.
And I am stopping here because we have some things to talk about. There is one archer that still needs to move (in Marseilles); I say either move him to our iron town, or bring him to Lyons. Should get another archer (or maybe a spear?!) and put in Lyons for deterrent IMO.
There is an English warrior just north of the lake north of Avignon; I want to bring the warriors in to Avignon and Besancon.
The settler between the lakes is ready to found next turn.
The settler heading out of Paris is going to grab those dyes (recommend on river tundra-forest to get all three. It's not a great town, so just use it to grab resources.)
I think we need two more settlers to fill in between Avignon/Besancon and Tours/Rheims, three if we can pull it off (see dotmap thumbnail attached; 2 circles = secondary targets), then we can fill in south of Paris, which is good for at least one nice city spot. For now I have abandoned the idea of the far coast, not because I don't think it's a good idea but because I think there's more important stuff. If we can spit out a coastal spot there, great. I'd actually put more stock in expanding north of Persia and encircling them somehow. Or getting a coastal area in the far south. The east coast seems dangerous.
The slaves/worker combo near Orleans should be done next turn; they should exclusively work Lyons for shields--there is one BG that needs a mine, then two more that will need mine-road after the borders pop.
The other workers need to road up our farthest cities, and the spare worker (joined by one from Marseilles) can improve land & hook stuff up.
Tech, we need to discuss a lot as noted above.
Oh, I see no iron in Persia (which is not to say they don't have any).
We just got writing so can build embassies. Probably a good idea with our two neighbors, but I haven't yet.
Save also attached, just because I care.
(Muahaha.)
Anyway...
1525 preflight:
CA2, Notepad.
Lux, check.
Tech, check.
Builds... check, except that (and sorry if this is controversial) swap Tours to an archer. I want a couple of those guys around in case someone gets frisky, rather than have to rush one.
Diplomacy/trades: check.
Hit enter.
Spoiler :
And I am stopping here because we have some things to talk about. There is one archer that still needs to move (in Marseilles); I say either move him to our iron town, or bring him to Lyons. Should get another archer (or maybe a spear?!) and put in Lyons for deterrent IMO.
There is an English warrior just north of the lake north of Avignon; I want to bring the warriors in to Avignon and Besancon.
The settler between the lakes is ready to found next turn.
The settler heading out of Paris is going to grab those dyes (recommend on river tundra-forest to get all three. It's not a great town, so just use it to grab resources.)
I think we need two more settlers to fill in between Avignon/Besancon and Tours/Rheims, three if we can pull it off (see dotmap thumbnail attached; 2 circles = secondary targets), then we can fill in south of Paris, which is good for at least one nice city spot. For now I have abandoned the idea of the far coast, not because I don't think it's a good idea but because I think there's more important stuff. If we can spit out a coastal spot there, great. I'd actually put more stock in expanding north of Persia and encircling them somehow. Or getting a coastal area in the far south. The east coast seems dangerous.
The slaves/worker combo near Orleans should be done next turn; they should exclusively work Lyons for shields--there is one BG that needs a mine, then two more that will need mine-road after the borders pop.
The other workers need to road up our farthest cities, and the spare worker (joined by one from Marseilles) can improve land & hook stuff up.
Tech, we need to discuss a lot as noted above.
Oh, I see no iron in Persia (which is not to say they don't have any).
We just got writing so can build embassies. Probably a good idea with our two neighbors, but I haven't yet.
Save also attached, just because I care.
Attachments
"The Celts are destroyed."
Wow... on emperor in 1500? Who in the world did that? A Jaguar Warrior rush or something??? I know you don't know, but still.
"I forfeit the game also, but I can't have everything (at least, not safely)."
For a second there I thought you retired or reloaded or something... of course you meant the deer/buffalo/whatever.
"Lux to 20% for Paris--corruption starting to take effect?"
It can't take effect in the capital... ever.
"Oh, and that's two dyes down there."
Score!
"Did I say two dyes? I meant three."
Triple score!
"Start Walls."
I've rarely ever built these. I doubt we'll need them. I guess they don't cost much, but they won't help us *prevent* a war (better than strong defense, in my opinion).
"Marseilles archer-worker."
I looked at Marseilles and thought "soon enough it should have 4 shields." If that holds, then it can build an archer in 5 turns with no shields lost. Having it build a warrior instead would take 3 turns and "waste" 2 shields in the process. So, I actually thought archers might work out well there. I don't mind us building some archers elsewhere... it's a team game after all... but I think it much more important to first cover *all* our towns with a unit of some sort before building all that many of them.
"There is one archer that still needs to move (in Marseilles); I say either move him to our iron town, or bring him to Lyons."
Does the iron town have a unit? If not, move him there. If the iron town does, then the archer can move to Lyons, and then we use the warrior in Lyons to cover some other town. I think we become most vulnerable by leaving an unguarded town... the quality of the guard matters less. I've played an Emperor Pangea game with the Maya, max aggressive setting, where I basically had two warriors in my towns until Replaceable Parts and I didn't get attacked... at all. I know that might sound weird, but with the RoPs signed and maintained, it can work. The spear sounds like a good idea eventually, but that can wait a bit.
"There is an English warrior just north of the lake north of Avignon; I want to bring the warriors in to Avignon and Besancon."
I feel more concerned about that than Lyons... but it might still come as too early for the AI to sack such a town. Also, since the English have their cities so far north, I'll guess they'll ignore the open town for now.
"Tech, we need to discuss a lot as noted above. "
Well, I don't know about the other AIs in the game... but 10 turns on Philosophy sounds fast... almost like "are we playing on Chieftian or something?" fast... even if we got to it slower, I'd still say shoot for it. Now, I know the next question. Granted that we get a free tech, I say we take mapmaking. What? Yes... mampmaking... as soon as we have mapmaking we sign rights of passage with at least Sumeria and Persia, and probably the Inca also... if not everyone else we can. This will keep everyone's attitude in check, and I doubt that unless we have an open town badly placed, or one of them builds the Statue of Zeus (we haven't seen ivory), we'll get attacked. We could wait for them to get to mapmaking... but we have an emperor game *and* it costs quite a bit... so I'd rather not wait. After that we could do literature and hope to trade for the rest of the techs.. or if someone has polytheism we could take the long trek to the Monarchy tech. Or we could not research for a few turns and see if someone gets Poly... although I'd think going for Literature the better strategy. Paris has plenty of settlers still to crank... and The Republic, although surely our government soon enough (I wouldn't dream of doing this in Monarchy), will mean Paris doesn't pump settlers for a while. If we get a town other than Lyons or the granary-wheat town to size 4, we could probably whip a settler also.
The northeastern spot might work... although we'd need to get a settler there fast, probably want to at least push an escort behind it, and then it would need culture right away... o.k... maybe not on Emperor... but still we would want culture there right away. I wouldn't count on that spot, since Sumeria might grab it. The middle spot between Besancon and Rheims should go one square directly east on the corner of the fresh-lake. It'll grab the game through cultural expansion this way and not need an aqueduct. The lower Western spot at Tours can go at least one square northwest. The upper Western spot near Avignonhttp://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179990&d=1213317964 can go two turns northwest and one north, found itself on the freshwater and have the two northern sugars in its inital radius... if we can get it. The one nearest to Paris can go directly on the tundra... if I remember correctly it'll have two food in its center square still (check the "view city" for that city after we've founded it on the tundra). We can spread out more in the East. LATER, once we've basically maxed out reach we can come back and found towns in funny gaps. Rheims can go for a settler now.
The settler between the lakes can go north, and then northwest and found a town there. Then, we can put another town directly south of the middle lake and get the game through cultural expansion. That's 3 freshwater towns instead of two. We also have two towns on the corners, so we'll have a good spread there. I actually think you might have made the right choice in not grabbing both the horses and the game with one city... we have a better overall empire position now. The three towns on the lakes does seem to imply that we'd want Marseilles to build our FP if Lyons can wonder in on the Hanging Gardens. We can also go for the northern coast soon, and if we miss it, we'll found another town on the lake north of Besancon... or maybe both? We could also have Orleans pump a settler and perhaps even whip one there when it grows to size 5. We have two luxuries and we'll keep having it build workers/settlers for a while. Then again, maybe we should whip a temple there, since Pasagrade could expand here all too soon. Chopping the forrest near Tours for its temple also seems like a good idea soon. Chartres doesn't need one yet. It can take over some of the military duty.
"I think we need two more settlers to fill in between Avignon/Besancon and Tours/Rheims, three if we can pull it off (see dotmap thumbnail attached; 2 circles = secondary targets), then we can fill in south of Paris, which is good for at least one nice city spot."
South of Paris still seems far away in time.
"I'd actually put more stock in expanding north of Persia and encircling them somehow."
With all the deserts there? Let them take it and go thirsty.
If you can't tell already, even though I play as a builder... I *detest* building aqueducts. Seriously, why bother? They often take too long to build and slow down your towns growth. If I played as a warmonger, I'd probably even hate them more (given a choice, of course). Also, if you read the Demi-god pre-game discussion, and saw how I reacted to Paris's multiple BGs, you could well call me a "production whore." Give me all your shields... now. Feel free to join the game there... nice joke about finishing this by the end of the week. If we slow down here, I don't mind.
Alright, so you played 8 turns. Do you want another 10 or 7 or so? Anything more you want to talk about... or do you see a better strategy somewhere than my suggestions?
Wow... on emperor in 1500? Who in the world did that? A Jaguar Warrior rush or something??? I know you don't know, but still.
"I forfeit the game also, but I can't have everything (at least, not safely)."
For a second there I thought you retired or reloaded or something... of course you meant the deer/buffalo/whatever.
"Lux to 20% for Paris--corruption starting to take effect?"
It can't take effect in the capital... ever.
"Oh, and that's two dyes down there."
Score!
"Did I say two dyes? I meant three."
Triple score!
"Start Walls."
I've rarely ever built these. I doubt we'll need them. I guess they don't cost much, but they won't help us *prevent* a war (better than strong defense, in my opinion).
"Marseilles archer-worker."
I looked at Marseilles and thought "soon enough it should have 4 shields." If that holds, then it can build an archer in 5 turns with no shields lost. Having it build a warrior instead would take 3 turns and "waste" 2 shields in the process. So, I actually thought archers might work out well there. I don't mind us building some archers elsewhere... it's a team game after all... but I think it much more important to first cover *all* our towns with a unit of some sort before building all that many of them.
"There is one archer that still needs to move (in Marseilles); I say either move him to our iron town, or bring him to Lyons."
Does the iron town have a unit? If not, move him there. If the iron town does, then the archer can move to Lyons, and then we use the warrior in Lyons to cover some other town. I think we become most vulnerable by leaving an unguarded town... the quality of the guard matters less. I've played an Emperor Pangea game with the Maya, max aggressive setting, where I basically had two warriors in my towns until Replaceable Parts and I didn't get attacked... at all. I know that might sound weird, but with the RoPs signed and maintained, it can work. The spear sounds like a good idea eventually, but that can wait a bit.
"There is an English warrior just north of the lake north of Avignon; I want to bring the warriors in to Avignon and Besancon."
I feel more concerned about that than Lyons... but it might still come as too early for the AI to sack such a town. Also, since the English have their cities so far north, I'll guess they'll ignore the open town for now.
"Tech, we need to discuss a lot as noted above. "
Well, I don't know about the other AIs in the game... but 10 turns on Philosophy sounds fast... almost like "are we playing on Chieftian or something?" fast... even if we got to it slower, I'd still say shoot for it. Now, I know the next question. Granted that we get a free tech, I say we take mapmaking. What? Yes... mampmaking... as soon as we have mapmaking we sign rights of passage with at least Sumeria and Persia, and probably the Inca also... if not everyone else we can. This will keep everyone's attitude in check, and I doubt that unless we have an open town badly placed, or one of them builds the Statue of Zeus (we haven't seen ivory), we'll get attacked. We could wait for them to get to mapmaking... but we have an emperor game *and* it costs quite a bit... so I'd rather not wait. After that we could do literature and hope to trade for the rest of the techs.. or if someone has polytheism we could take the long trek to the Monarchy tech. Or we could not research for a few turns and see if someone gets Poly... although I'd think going for Literature the better strategy. Paris has plenty of settlers still to crank... and The Republic, although surely our government soon enough (I wouldn't dream of doing this in Monarchy), will mean Paris doesn't pump settlers for a while. If we get a town other than Lyons or the granary-wheat town to size 4, we could probably whip a settler also.
The northeastern spot might work... although we'd need to get a settler there fast, probably want to at least push an escort behind it, and then it would need culture right away... o.k... maybe not on Emperor... but still we would want culture there right away. I wouldn't count on that spot, since Sumeria might grab it. The middle spot between Besancon and Rheims should go one square directly east on the corner of the fresh-lake. It'll grab the game through cultural expansion this way and not need an aqueduct. The lower Western spot at Tours can go at least one square northwest. The upper Western spot near Avignonhttp://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179990&d=1213317964 can go two turns northwest and one north, found itself on the freshwater and have the two northern sugars in its inital radius... if we can get it. The one nearest to Paris can go directly on the tundra... if I remember correctly it'll have two food in its center square still (check the "view city" for that city after we've founded it on the tundra). We can spread out more in the East. LATER, once we've basically maxed out reach we can come back and found towns in funny gaps. Rheims can go for a settler now.
The settler between the lakes can go north, and then northwest and found a town there. Then, we can put another town directly south of the middle lake and get the game through cultural expansion. That's 3 freshwater towns instead of two. We also have two towns on the corners, so we'll have a good spread there. I actually think you might have made the right choice in not grabbing both the horses and the game with one city... we have a better overall empire position now. The three towns on the lakes does seem to imply that we'd want Marseilles to build our FP if Lyons can wonder in on the Hanging Gardens. We can also go for the northern coast soon, and if we miss it, we'll found another town on the lake north of Besancon... or maybe both? We could also have Orleans pump a settler and perhaps even whip one there when it grows to size 5. We have two luxuries and we'll keep having it build workers/settlers for a while. Then again, maybe we should whip a temple there, since Pasagrade could expand here all too soon. Chopping the forrest near Tours for its temple also seems like a good idea soon. Chartres doesn't need one yet. It can take over some of the military duty.
"I think we need two more settlers to fill in between Avignon/Besancon and Tours/Rheims, three if we can pull it off (see dotmap thumbnail attached; 2 circles = secondary targets), then we can fill in south of Paris, which is good for at least one nice city spot."
South of Paris still seems far away in time.
"I'd actually put more stock in expanding north of Persia and encircling them somehow."
With all the deserts there? Let them take it and go thirsty.
If you can't tell already, even though I play as a builder... I *detest* building aqueducts. Seriously, why bother? They often take too long to build and slow down your towns growth. If I played as a warmonger, I'd probably even hate them more (given a choice, of course). Also, if you read the Demi-god pre-game discussion, and saw how I reacted to Paris's multiple BGs, you could well call me a "production whore." Give me all your shields... now.
Feel free to join the game there... nice joke about finishing this by the end of the week. If we slow down here, I don't mind.Alright, so you played 8 turns. Do you want another 10 or 7 or so? Anything more you want to talk about... or do you see a better strategy somewhere than my suggestions?
Quickies first.
"Does the iron town have a unit?" Yes, that warrior that was exploring there popped back into the town. My thought in also having an archer there was that if we get attacked from the north, that would be THE spot, what with the resource there and all. I want an active detterent in place.
""Lux to 20% for Paris--corruption starting to take effect?"
It can't take effect in the capital... ever."
Right. More an expression of "I was surprised that 10% lux wasn't enough". Paris was 2/1/3 at 10%, and it had to be awfully close.
"The one nearest to Paris can go directly on the tundra... if I remember correctly it'll have two food in its center square still" Yes, it will. Which is the good reason to plop it on tundra.
Re: the builds, I'm ambivalent about most of them quite frankly. Which was another reason this was a good stopping point IMO--there are basically no builds that can't be switched comfortably with no problem right now.
On the tech choice, I can't agree with Mapmaking. My thought is as long as we keep a tech parity or advantage, we'll be trading with the AI, and that should keep them non-homicidal. To date there have been NO signs of anything from them.
I was vacillating between a couple of options:
1. Taking Philo now, and sucking up a good free tech (Construction is available if nothing else--it's not perfect but it is not a cheap tech, more beakers than Mapmaking). If we can get Monarchy from that via a trade for Polytheism, that is our best bet both for trade value and for getting to the HG quickly (which is nice for the wonder/GA situation). There is very little wrong with this plan in general. But we don't need Monarchy right now (though it's better than despotism, of course).
2. Going for CoL then Philo slingshot to Republic. If we can get it, we're in fine shape for everything trade wise, I'd think. If not, well, we slog along to Republic on our own I guess and try to trade for Monarchy with that. Risky but obviously a HUGE payoff.
Will type more later, at work and actually need to... work.
"Does the iron town have a unit?" Yes, that warrior that was exploring there popped back into the town. My thought in also having an archer there was that if we get attacked from the north, that would be THE spot, what with the resource there and all. I want an active detterent in place.
""Lux to 20% for Paris--corruption starting to take effect?"
It can't take effect in the capital... ever."
Right. More an expression of "I was surprised that 10% lux wasn't enough". Paris was 2/1/3 at 10%, and it had to be awfully close.
"The one nearest to Paris can go directly on the tundra... if I remember correctly it'll have two food in its center square still" Yes, it will. Which is the good reason to plop it on tundra.
Re: the builds, I'm ambivalent about most of them quite frankly. Which was another reason this was a good stopping point IMO--there are basically no builds that can't be switched comfortably with no problem right now.
On the tech choice, I can't agree with Mapmaking. My thought is as long as we keep a tech parity or advantage, we'll be trading with the AI, and that should keep them non-homicidal. To date there have been NO signs of anything from them.
I was vacillating between a couple of options:
1. Taking Philo now, and sucking up a good free tech (Construction is available if nothing else--it's not perfect but it is not a cheap tech, more beakers than Mapmaking). If we can get Monarchy from that via a trade for Polytheism, that is our best bet both for trade value and for getting to the HG quickly (which is nice for the wonder/GA situation). There is very little wrong with this plan in general. But we don't need Monarchy right now (though it's better than despotism, of course).
2. Going for CoL then Philo slingshot to Republic. If we can get it, we're in fine shape for everything trade wise, I'd think. If not, well, we slog along to Republic on our own I guess and try to trade for Monarchy with that. Risky but obviously a HUGE payoff.
Will type more later, at work and actually need to... work.
Sashie VII
Balance of Power
I may have missed something in the reports, but.. how about going for Philo and get CoL as free tech? Then slowly research Republic, accumulate gold etc...
Just a lurker's 2c
Just a lurker's 2c
Sashie VII
Balance of Power
Upside is that you won't let someone else deny you a free tech from Philo (though as I said, I may have missed some things in the reports such as AI tech positions). Downside, you'll have to research Republic yourselves slowly.
Of course, if AIs don't even have Writing, CoL->Philo with Republic as free tech sounds wonderful.
Of course, if AIs don't even have Writing, CoL->Philo with Republic as free tech sounds wonderful.
[On the tech choice, I can't agree with Mapmaking. ]
We could probably trade around mapmaking and philosophy. Although, perhaps I've gotten paranoid about getting attacked early. But, it's what 1525??? Yeah... we've got plenty of time before the AIs think about an attack... unless they see an undefended city. So, we can forego it. I can always say we played a team game j/k.
Anyways, I wouldn't want to take construction, since in my experience the AI tends to research that around here... except for the English who usually seem to research Currency before Construction. They'll almost surely go for Map Making and Philosophy before Code of Laws. And even though DaveMcW's list suggests otherwise, I see them going for Construction before Code of Laws. We have plenty of freshwater, so I don't foresee growth as a problem. I also see Polytheism before Code of Laws. Interestingly enough if you check in the Deity-Iroquois game I've put up here, you'll see I have all the required ancient techs except for Code of Laws... no one has researched it yet. Polytheism ranks low on their list, so I'll guess that if we get the philosophy shot they won't have Polytheism yet.
Consequently, I think we should take Polytheism as our tech, then reserach Monarchy and get a lock on the Hanging Gardens. Hopefully the AI will ignore that tech for a while, and either we finish the Hanging Gardens before the Temple of Artemis cascade happens... or the Temple of Artemis cascade will finish of the other wonders getting bulit. Also, if Monarchy takes a while and Lyons gets too close to the Palace we can use the Temple of Artemis as a pre-build.
Conceivably, if we could build the Temple of Artemis before anyone else has Monarchy we could kill the wonder cascade and have a lock on the Hanging Gardens. On the other hand, building the Temple of Artemis could mean someone then gets the Hanging Gardens on that same turn, which doesn't actually seem likely to me on this level... but I don't know if losing the Hanging Gardens worth even a small risk. Well... maybe... after all... if we miss it we could just wait for the GA until the Hoover Dam... which we'll almost surely have a lock on that. And a post-Hoover Dam golden age would work well for a spaceship launch. The Temple of Artemis could also solve our culture problems rather fast and allow us to focus on military/marketplaces.
Well, whatever we decide on wonder-wise, I say we go for Polytheism as our free tech, and then research Monarchy (unless we change our minds about the Hanging Gardens/Smith's and wait until the Smith's/Hoover Dam.. then I would say Literature... as then we can probably get both the Temple of Artemis... if we finish the Temple of Artemis before Literature, I'd think and the Great Library).
I don't want The Republic until we've either fully expanded or have gotten close to full expansion, AND we have RoPs with everyone. The Anarchy period comes as our weakest time, and better attitudes of the AIs will help most here. Also, we'll want NO towns without a warrior or something (we don't need much in my opinion... just not nothing) in the garrison during the revolt, as that seems asking for it. The AI will almost surely go there last also.
I don't think we want to trade Polytheism, unless we know we'll nail the Temple of Artemis or Hanging Gardens.
We could probably trade around mapmaking and philosophy. Although, perhaps I've gotten paranoid about getting attacked early. But, it's what 1525??? Yeah... we've got plenty of time before the AIs think about an attack... unless they see an undefended city. So, we can forego it. I can always say we played a team game j/k.
Anyways, I wouldn't want to take construction, since in my experience the AI tends to research that around here... except for the English who usually seem to research Currency before Construction. They'll almost surely go for Map Making and Philosophy before Code of Laws. And even though DaveMcW's list suggests otherwise, I see them going for Construction before Code of Laws. We have plenty of freshwater, so I don't foresee growth as a problem. I also see Polytheism before Code of Laws. Interestingly enough if you check in the Deity-Iroquois game I've put up here, you'll see I have all the required ancient techs except for Code of Laws... no one has researched it yet. Polytheism ranks low on their list, so I'll guess that if we get the philosophy shot they won't have Polytheism yet.
Consequently, I think we should take Polytheism as our tech, then reserach Monarchy and get a lock on the Hanging Gardens. Hopefully the AI will ignore that tech for a while, and either we finish the Hanging Gardens before the Temple of Artemis cascade happens... or the Temple of Artemis cascade will finish of the other wonders getting bulit. Also, if Monarchy takes a while and Lyons gets too close to the Palace we can use the Temple of Artemis as a pre-build.
Conceivably, if we could build the Temple of Artemis before anyone else has Monarchy we could kill the wonder cascade and have a lock on the Hanging Gardens. On the other hand, building the Temple of Artemis could mean someone then gets the Hanging Gardens on that same turn, which doesn't actually seem likely to me on this level... but I don't know if losing the Hanging Gardens worth even a small risk. Well... maybe... after all... if we miss it we could just wait for the GA until the Hoover Dam... which we'll almost surely have a lock on that. And a post-Hoover Dam golden age would work well for a spaceship launch. The Temple of Artemis could also solve our culture problems rather fast and allow us to focus on military/marketplaces.
Well, whatever we decide on wonder-wise, I say we go for Polytheism as our free tech, and then research Monarchy (unless we change our minds about the Hanging Gardens/Smith's and wait until the Smith's/Hoover Dam.. then I would say Literature... as then we can probably get both the Temple of Artemis... if we finish the Temple of Artemis before Literature, I'd think and the Great Library).
I don't want The Republic until we've either fully expanded or have gotten close to full expansion, AND we have RoPs with everyone. The Anarchy period comes as our weakest time, and better attitudes of the AIs will help most here. Also, we'll want NO towns without a warrior or something (we don't need much in my opinion... just not nothing) in the garrison during the revolt, as that seems asking for it. The AI will almost surely go there last also.
I don't think we want to trade Polytheism, unless we know we'll nail the Temple of Artemis or Hanging Gardens.
