Am I assessing things wrong, or are the Khmer super powerful?

[kaspergm]

I'm still very much new to Humankind, having only played a couple of games at relatively low difficulty and having not followed any youtube videos during beta etc., so maybe I'm just getting things wrong because I'm judging things with my "Civ" glasses on, but:

I feel the Khmer, or more specifically the Barray (sp?), are super powerful. I picked them in my first game because I love Khmer and they looked good, and I've picked them in my two other games as well because they feel so extremely powerful.

The combination of the Barray itself being super powerful - in most cases, I get numbers between 30 and 50 production each, sometimes even higher - and coming at a time where my cities are generally well established and each have 4-5 districts connected means my city production just seems to completely sky-rocket once I reach this part of the game.

Is there something I'm missing, or do others also feel the Khmer are extremely powerful?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Lots of the EQ are superpowerful in large cities.

 

[Siptah]

In principal, anything that scales by population or by number of territories is in a way broken. For example, I took the Khmer in my 30 territory 1 city challenge. So I have 150 Pop and 30 Barays... yeah...

That said, the Khmer are definitely among the best choices in the Medieval era, if not the best outright. Thus, I think they should be nerfed a bit eventually (as all per Pop/per Territory before Industrial or Contemporary Era at least). However, a lot of medieval choices are really good, and which one fits you the best depends on what you've done before and how your maps look. Many of them give a noticeable boost that makes you feel you've chosen really good. The English also offer a very nice package if you've got production going already. Since the English, Harappans, and Celts are gone so quick, I also take the Norsemen quite often if I have a lot of coast nearby. And then those Ghanaians, and those Teutons, even the Byzantines... Still, the Khmer are at least head over all of them, even if not also with their shoulders.

 

[kaspergm]

I agree that per-pop bonuses seem very, and probably too, strong in general. The Japanese culture trait that adds +1 influence per pop (I forget its name, but I think it's in early modern (which really confuses me as it comes before industrial, but that's a sidetrack)) also seems very strong, as does the french in industrial with +1 science per pop on the science district.

 

[Taefin]

Also medieval ranged EU are extremely powerful, especially the Khmer elephants. When everyone else needs to decide between archers (only get 5-25 damage) or crossbows (limited by LoS) you get a unit that deals good damage at range, and that can move after attack, so having one tile with higher ground you can move all your elephants to that tile to shoot. Even in Early Modern and Industrial, when they drop to dealing 5-25 damage, the move and shoot keeps them among the most useful units in my army, since their squishiness in the face of muskets doesn’t matter if you can always have them behind cover.

I would suggest LoS be revisited, it does seem to me that an elephant should be able to be shot at behind a line of infantry.

Regarding the EQ, I like that there are strong EQ that scale with various factors (pop, territories, follower) because of how it incentivized merging cities. Also I think Khmer need 50+ industry per Eq at medieval for their production focus to really shine through at that era. I would suggest other EQ without these bonuses be given them. Too many flat bonus EQ that directly compete with scaling bonuses.

 

[Siptah]

I agree that per-pop bonuses seem very, and probably too, strong in general. The Japanese culture trait that adds +1 influence per pop (I forget its name, but I think it's in early modern (which really confuses me as it comes before industrial, but that's a sidetrack)) also seems very strong, as does the french in industrial with +1 science per pop on the science district.

Luckily, that Japanese trait was bugged in the release version (fixed in the beta patch though). I think for the French, and industrial onward in general one could make an argument that these very fast growing yields have more sense to it. Not saying the balance is fine the way it is right now, but having per pop and territory and a late game yield explosion is a nice boost.

I would suggest LoS be revisited, it does seem to me that an elephant should be able to be shot at behind a line of infantry.

New unit trait: "easy target"

 

[kaspergm]

Luckily, that Japanese trait was bugged in the release version (fixed in the beta patch though). I think for the French, and industrial onward in general one could make an argument that these very fast growing yields have more sense to it. Not saying the balance is fine the way it is right now, but having per pop and territory and a late game yield explosion is a nice boost.

Yeah, I had the beta installed when I played the Japanese faction, and the influence boost was massive.

 

[fortydayweekend]

The Baray is fantastic especially if you have a lot of river territories, which you should have prioritised. Also it gives +10 stability to neighboring Commons Quarters, so with a bit of planning you can really save space and industry later by having CQs next to Barays (on adjacent non-river tiles).

Also it gives you the right yields for that stage of the game. You can always use more food and industry but can get away with just a few traders and researchers.

The unit comes late but is awesome, like all elephant units. It wipes the floor with other Medieval units if you're on the attack and can get the first shot in, which you usually can given the long range and you can shoot over things.

I keep wanting to try other cultures but it's so hard to not pick Khmer. If you're expanding a lot there could maybe be an argument to stay with them in early modern to be able to keep building Barays.

 

[PSG]

Barays are great, but the regular industrial zones are pretty close with some of the culture combinations. The Siamese following up the Khmer is even more powerful.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I agree that per-pop bonuses seem very, and probably too, strong in general. The Japanese culture trait that adds +1 influence per pop (I forget its name, but I think it's in early modern (which really confuses me as it comes before industrial, but that's a sidetrack)) also seems very strong, as does the french in industrial with +1 science per pop on the science district.

It’s not per pop bonuses, it’s repeatable per-pop/territory/district bonuses from EQ in multi territory cities. Japan’s Trait of +1 Inf/pop is nice, but not much more than the default. On the other hand a 20 territory city with 20 Ming Tea Houses (+1/District) has each producing a minimum of 40 each (20Tea houses+20 ACs…and then others) for an easy 800 inf/turn from the city…and more likely ~2000

 

[Taefin]

It’s not per pop bonuses, it’s repeatable per-pop/territory/district bonuses from EQ in multi territory cities. Japan’s Trait of +1 Inf/pop is nice, but not much more than the default. On the other hand a 20 territory city with 20 Ming Tea Houses (+1/District) has each producing a minimum of 40 each (20Tea houses+20 ACs…and then others) for an easy 800 inf/turn from the city…and more likely ~2000

But can you even get to a 30 territory city via influence without doing something like this? I like that there are ways of breaking certain resource yields, especially when those yields have situational uses. And compared to 20 of any district in one city that might not even be a more powerful choice.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Luckily, that Japanese trait was bugged in the release version (fixed in the beta patch though). I think for the French, and industrial onward in general one could make an argument that these very fast growing yields have more sense to it. Not saying the balance is fine the way it is right now, but having per pop and territory and a late game yield explosion is a nice boost.


New unit trait: "easy target"

The game has the trait "Elephant Platform" already, perhaps it needs to add "Looming Elephant" for this effect.

And the Baray is definitely powerful, but it's not alone:

The Mauryan's Stupa EU in the Classical Age gives you Influence and Science, plus Influence per adjacent District, an extra Researchers Slot and it counts as an 'extra' Research Quarter. Not too shabby that early in the game.

In the Medieval, my favorite Alternative to the Baray and Khmer are the Teutons. Their Legacy Trait gives you+1 Money AND +1 Science for every population point following your Religion - if you've got a well-established Religion, his can be a major boost, and it lasts for the rest of the game.

 

[agonistes]

I'm still very much new to Humankind, having only played a couple of games at relatively low difficulty and having not followed any youtube videos during beta etc., so maybe I'm just getting things wrong because I'm judging things with my "Civ" glasses on, but:

I feel the Khmer, or more specifically the Barray (sp?), are super powerful. I picked them in my first game because I love Khmer and they looked good, and I've picked them in my two other games as well because they feel so extremely powerful.

The combination of the Barray itself being super powerful - in most cases, I get numbers between 30 and 50 production each, sometimes even higher - and coming at a time where my cities are generally well established and each have 4-5 districts connected means my city production just seems to completely sky-rocket once I reach this part of the game.

Is there something I'm missing, or do others also feel the Khmer are extremely powerful?

No, they are indeed strong. I choose cultures for high influence/production uniques. Then you can quickly build the uniques in each territory before grabbing the next culture. The growth/expansion is insane.

My final run I chose Carthage just for flavor. Egypt and Khmer are two excellent choices. Influence and production rule this game.