Am I doing something wrong? (noble diff.)

[Wizardhawk]

So i'm not the best civ player in the world, not even close. I can't win a game on noble difficulty for the life of me.

I usually play custom continents, huge map, 18 civs (don't have any mods so that's the max I can do) and 2 or 3 continents, although sometimes I random the continents.

The problem I run in to, is no matter what I do, by the time someone gets to optics and everyone finds each other, my continent (regardless of how many ai it has) is always atleast 15 techs behind. Is there some secret malice in place that makes it so the continent with the player has gimped AI's? Am I just that horrible at the game?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Sounds like you aren't trading techs with the AI, and the other continent is.

Huge maps, 18 civs makes things difficult though, especially diplomacy. Play smaller maps first...

 

[Farm Boy]

To shamelessly rip off Ghpstage from another post....

"Need a lot more information to even begin helping! Your best off posting a few saves and screenshots, or better yet starting a new game and playing it with guidance from these forums.
Are you playing vanilla civ 4 or one of the expansions?

The most comon problem people have at those levels is working unimproved tiles, usually caused by not having enough workers."

Also if you do start an online game(do it!) it is usually best to start with pretty much the default settings. Standard size/normal speed/random leader/continents.

 

[Wizardhawk]

I'll start a game up and make sure I get a few different saves and screenshots from it to post up here. I probably don't get as many workers as a lot of people do, but I get a fairly large amount of them (gotta get them cottages going so i'm not broke!)

I think part of my problem might be expanding too much too fast, cause the maintenance costs always cripple me for a little while, but if that was the only problem then everyone who conquers their continent early should run into the same thing.

It might be a day or two until I have some saves and pics, no point in taking them of one of the games that I do really bad in

Also, I am playing BTS, no mods or anything, should be on whatever the newest patch is.

 

[Wizardhawk]

Alright well it happened faster than I thought it would. First game I started up seemed like it'd be worth trying to use as the example game.

This is a basic summary of the timeline up until 25 AD where I've taken a break until tomorrow. List of techs in the order I get them, a few reasons, and a few years thrown in sometimes when more important stuff happens than passing the time.

Agriculture
Masonry - close stone
Hunting
Archery - for city defense archers
3000 BC - I have 3 warriors exploring, and a scout that I got from a hut.
Mining
Animal Husbandry - hoping for close horses.
Writing
2325 BC - Settle Medina, start monument first to get border pop asap
2225 BC - Archer finishes in Mecca, fortify him to stop anger, start settler number 2.
Pottery - So I can start setting up cottages
Begrudgingly sign open borders with Isabella (I hate having open borders, but I want to explore past her border)
1875 BC - start research on bronze working, 2nd settler complete, third settler begins.
Iron working
1550 BC - 3rd settler done, start 2nd worker to help speed up tiles.
Settle Baghdad, not where i'd ideally like my fourth city, but I do it to block the chokepoint. Hopefully I don't get a DoW until I can get some troops down there to keep it safe, but it gives me temporary time to fill in the good area around my base. The mongols and the carthiginians are both stuck on that bottom strip (unless they galley a settler across), stuck with horrible terrain.
1340 BC - Second worker done, begin 4th settler. Used up all my gold, research set to 50% now to compensate.
1150 BC - Greed! quest, first time i've ever seen this one, and i'm not going to end up completing it considering it's right next to mongolia and I am nowhere near ready to invade someone >_<
1050 BC - 4th settler done, start barracks in capitol so that I can use it to pump military if a war starts.
950 BC - Settle Najran. Chose the spot to finish blocking off my section so I can fill it in.
500 BC - Found Kufah
380 BC - Alphabet finishes, start currency as it seems like the best option.
25 AD - Place a couple more cities, still have a few to fill in, pumping workers and a few axemen, swordsman too once the mine on iron finishes.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Open borders with Isabella is great - she'll send missionaries to give you religion. If you change to her religion (preferably when she asks), you'l be best friends forever.

 

[Wizardhawk]

I got rid of the open borders as soon as it would let me. Should I re-open it and then maybe try and make her my partner in destruction to take over the continent? She's got the highest score out of us which worries me a little, but we are seperated by another civ.

I mostly dislike open borders because I hate watching 45000 ai units run through my territory every turn, does it give any real benefits once the landgrab is over with, aside from missionaries?

 

[God-Emperor]

Foreign trade routes. That alone is enough reason to open borders with some of the AIs. It might let you raise your research slider a notch from the extra commerce since foreign trade routes can be worth more than double what domestic trade routes are worth (and even if the research slider can't be bumped up, the total research and money being produced will still be higher).

Trade routes to cities that are farther away is better (but distant domestic cities suffer from higher maintenance which can completely cancel the trade route benefits, and then some). Foreign cities are better than domestic. Overseas (different continent or even just on islands) foreign cities are even better.

Open borders for foreign trade routes (and better diplomatic relations, since you get a bonus if they are open long enough) plus tech trading are probably two of the main reason the AIs are pulling ahead of you. Another is that vassals trade techs with their masters as if they were friendly even when they aren't, which can allow a conquering civ to get some techs at very favorable trade rates - and then vassals often neglect their military leading to better economies and faster tech rates. Those AIs on distant continents have often consolidated into one or two bocks with a master with a bunch of cities and vassals by the time they are discovered.

 

[insaneweasel]

I found that on noble, all you need to do is utilize specialists and great people, and cottage spam. Cottages are great at that level-it's so forgiving, and the AI doesn't attack with large numbers to pillage. Settle quicker, and you should do fine.

 

[vicawoo]

Go worker first and your gameplay will improve vastly

 

[Ghpstage]

Right now there is one main thing bottlenecking your empire, the lack of workers. With all that jungle you want at least 12 Workers, just for the cities you have. Once you get enough workers and a few granaries up your quickly going to run into the cap too so getting Monarchy is something to look at in the near future.

Opening borders with your friends (Spain and Egypt in this case) is a good move most of the time, it makes them like you a little more and gives you good trade routes as mentioend.
To get these trade routes however you need a valid trade connection, which as of that save you don't have. Without it they will benefit from trade routes to you but you won't get any benefit. Luckily it can easily be solved, both Izzie and Ramsses have Sailing and as they are Pleased with you they will gladly give you Sailing for free if you ask nicely and the other one will probably give you Polytheism too.

I would look to move those Axes from Medina to the Mongol border, Ramesses won't attack you but Kublai probably is going to at some point.

Overall, getting more workers is priority number 1. Also, to get growth going your going to want to get some Granaries built, they are a core building that goes in just about every city soon after its setled.

 

[Wizardhawk]

Thanks for all the tips! I've considered doing worker first before when I get an especially nice capital area but always stop myself until it gets to pop 3 or 4 usually.

I never knew that AI would actually give you things for free, i've never even bothered asking one of them for a tech!

Also didn't know that about the open borders, I guess i'm going to have to deal with the ai units in that case.

 

[xenex]

I've considered doing worker first before when I get an especially nice capital area

In 95% of the cases worker first is the best choice, the only times you could consider something else is if you have fish and you start with fishing.If that is not the case you go worker first.The turns you shave off from waiting for the capitol to grow to 3 is not good enough compared to the extra yield your worker can give you.


Yeah, if your are pleased or better with an AI you should ask for free techs every now and then, also once you tech currency you could ask for gold every 20 turns or so.

 

[Ghpstage]

Trade routes to cities that are farther away is better (but distant domestic cities suffer from higher maintenance which can completely cancel the trade route benefits, and then some). Foreign cities are better than domestic. Overseas (different continent or even just on islands) foreign cities are even better.

Distance only determines what the maximum base value of a trade route is, it does not cause that value to increase nor does it give bonuses.

Yeah, if your are pleased or better with an AI you should ask for free techs every now and then, also once you tech currency you could ask for gold every 20 turns or so.

To expand a little on this, AIs typically give into a beg valued around 200 every 25-30 turns. The 200 value limits it to cheaper, early techs like Priesthood, Sailing and Polythesm.
After Curency getting 200 per Pleased/Friendly civ every 30 turns or so turns is great for raising your slider.