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Amending the Code of Laws - Designated Players

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by Sigma, May 23, 2006.

  1. Sigma

    Sigma Censor

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    I've been thinking about this lately and I'd like to make some amendments to Section 4 of our Code of Laws, the section that deals with Designated Players. The current section is listed below:

    The new version, with additions in blue and removals in red and strikethrough:

     
  2. Sigma

    Sigma Censor

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    I know this is a long post but please read it all the way through if you have the time - I'd appreciate your input!

    There are several reasons and ways that I'd like to amend this section. Please read this and let me know what you think. I am open to suggestions so post them here.

    I'd like to create a new position, the Head Designated Player. The Head Designated Player will be the candidate for Designated Player that received the most votes. The Head DP will maintain the DP Pool thread and has some powers with regards to skipping DP's and other things. Besides this, the Head DP plays the save in order just like any other DP.

    After a TC has completed, I'd like to have a time limit (maybe 2 days) for the next DP to post acknowledging that he knows he is next, then maybe a time limit (another day or two) for him to schedule the TC and post an instruction thread, and finally a maximum amount of time away (4 days?) that the instruction thread can be posted. That's a lot of deadlines and time limits, so maybe we can combine the first two. But the purpose of this is to get things moving, and have TC's at a steady rate.

    If the next DP knows that he cannot run a TC within the specified amount of time, he should be able to voluntarily ask to be skipped and allow the DP that would be after him to go next. I'd be willing to go as far as to ask all DP's to notify the Head DP as early as possible (at the beginning of the term) if they will be gone for any extended periods of time, so they can be skipped without waiting.

    Now there is the situation where a DP goes missing and his turn comes up. This is where the Head DP comes in. The Head DP can authorize a skip of a DP in the rotation if he does not acknowledge and/or post his TCIT in the specified amount of time. Or in the event of the Head DP being missing, the other DP's can hold a vote to skip the Head DP. Also somehow there needs to be a way to remove the Head DP from his "Head" status, upon which a new one could be appointed/voted on. (I'm not sure how to do this yet)

    The Head DP is also integral in the appointment of additional DP's. The Head DP can appoint a new DP, if confirmed by the president and/or half of the current DP's (Not sure which to do).

    Now the reason for all of this is quite simple. Right now there's no organization in the Designated Players. Everyone's on the same footing, and no one can make a decision for anyone else. The last few months we've averaged a measly 3-4 turnchats a month. What happened to holding one every 3-4 days? With this amendment I'd like to bring some order to the DP Pool, and try to speed things up. I think the slow speed of gameplay we've been on for the last few months is one of the reasons we've been losing members, and if we get it back on a regular track we may pick some back up.

    Of course, speeding everything up can cause problems sometimes. The Head DP, along with the members of the Triumvirate, can ask the current DP to reschedule his TC for no later than 3 days after its current scheduled date. This request can only be made if there is significant time needed to make an important decision, such as the declaration of war. This can only be done up to two times in succession for a single TC (so as not to delay the game indefinitely). There should also be a way to override this decision (maybe a vote of the DPs of some sort?). If the current DP cannot play the save at the later time for any reason, then he must acknowledge this and ask to be skipped.

    Should unforseen personal circumstances force a DP to have to reschedule his TC, he may do so, but he may only reschedule for no later than 3 days after the current scheduled date. The DP must give advance notice of at least 1 hour to do so, and may only reschedule for personal reasons once for the same TC. If he needs to reschedule a second time, he must ask to be skipped so the next DP can play. If the DP does not give at least 1 hour notice, or misses the TC completely, the TC will be cancelled and the DP will be skipped automatically and may be considered for removal from the DP Pool.

    Wow, this post is turning out to be pretty long. ;) A few more small changes:

    I don't like Line 4.A.V. First of all it's very confusing. If we're going to keep it, we should reformat it to make it clearer. But I'd just assume we cancel the TC if the DP is not there to run it, instead of having a complex order of succession.

    Also, on line 4.B.IA.1, it says "If no instructions from a given office are posted for a game session the Designated Player assumes the powers of that office for the game session." I'd like to add a clause that says, "the Designated Player should review previous instructions from that office, and all polls and discussions pertaining to that office, in an attempt to follow what instructions would have been given and act in accordance with the wishes of the Citizens." I don't like the idea of DP's getting to do what they want if an official doesn't post instructions. This clause doesn't bind them, but it should encourage them to do what would have been done.

    Please discuss these changes here and let me know what you think of them! I am certainly open to suggestions and can change things so we get a version that suits the most people. Nothing is set in stone here.

    Thanks in advance for your contributions.
     
  3. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    I agree that these powers and duties are a good start, but would prefer the President to keep this as has been traditionally done, instead of creating a new office. As it is right now, the President has very few day to day responsibilities.

    We'll need to discuss the details like how many days etc.
     
  4. Sigma

    Sigma Censor

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    Dave,

    You must keep in mind that this is my first demogame, so I'm not well-versed with what's traditionally been done. ;)

    Regardless, I did think quite a bit on whether we should just assign these powers to the President or to make a separate position. I think the main reason I wrote it up with a Head DP was so that the amendment could all be self-contained within the Designated Players section, and thus would be easier to write and propose.

    Honestly, I have no preference either way. I'll go along with whichever one gets more support - I just want someone to have these powers and duties.
     
  5. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    The only problem with 3-4 days is our poll everything attitude that we have been forced in. IF we let officials make some decisions without a poll we can then have a 3-4 day cycle.
     
  6. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Remember my new motto and you'll be fine.

    Just do it, and ask forgiveness if someone complains. Much easier than asking for permission first. :crazyeye:

    All you need is evidence that more citizens support an idea than disagree with it. For the rare instances which must be polled, just look more closely at how the law is defined. For example, the law requires the assembly to approve declaring war and making peace. It says absolutely nothing about conduct of a war.

    How many times has a science rate change been polled? Never to my knowledge. All the Presidents have been acting like they have a mandate to just do it.
     
  7. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    That fine with me Dave..thats what I believe and wanted to do but I have been slammed by some since term 2 for it when I posted an opinion poll. I believe the comment was..."I dont trust Robboo to follow the opinions of the citizens...this needs to be binding".

    Godo enough for me. Next term..lets try not to have any polls :)
     
  8. Sigma

    Sigma Censor

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    Technically an Opinion Poll is higher than Mandate anyway, so even though it's not "binding", it still would've been the highest form of decision at that time. So you'd still be "bound" by it. ;)
     
  9. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    YEP....but that was not what was said at the time....by a judiciary member.

    Hope you have a boring term next term Sigma :)...no polls in June
     
  10. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    I'd like to maybe see a DP council. I agree the pace of the game has to be sped up. It feels like TC come around as often as elections.
     
  11. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    I agree with Daveshack about keeping the power with the President. It seems to fit with how I see the President's role: keeping an overview of how we're playing the game and encouraging us all to get on with it and keep it moving.

    I think the idea about specifying a time for the next DP to post is good, though I'd recommend keeping it as simple as possible. If I'm elected to DP next term, I won't be offended if I'm unavoidably away from a PC with Civ and my turn is skipped. This stuff happens occasionally and I wouldn't want it to stop everyone else. I'm sure others will feel the same.

    One thing we might do is ask the DP at the end of the TC (when they have posted the save/log/screenshots etc) is to post who is next and PM that person. This decreases the chance that someone will simply forget they are next. If a mandatory poll (or a poll about a crucial issue where opinion is divided and unclear) will not finish before the TC, then the relevant official, Censor or President should post a TC instruction saying "Don't play until this poll closes". If this is inconvenient for the designated DP, then they should pass the turn on.

    As for possible holdups due to polls etc, I don't think this is a big problem. I'd rather see the game keep moving if possible. As DaveShack says, in general keep playing providing the will of the people seems to be with you. If there is a problem, then someone may refer it to the Judiciary, but that is what they are supposed to be there for (i.e. clearing up a problem, not threatening people before things happen).

    I think we need to be a bit stricter on making sure officials post instructions. I think it is acceptable for a DP to look at the previous TC, but the job looks hard enough without having to go back through older threads. If an official fails to post or posts really vague/unhelpful instructions, then the DP should name and shame as part of their report of the TC. If someone is consistently very bad, then a citizen could choose to recall the official, or more likely not vote for that person at the next elections.
     
  12. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    I've finally read it :sleep:
    It sounds good, but maybe there should be a DP council instead of a DP-Head to keep it democratic.
    I think it would be good to add the first two time limits together so there's some margain left for the DP (together they could be 3 days).
     
  13. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    We need a minimum time between TC to allow officials and citizens to actually plan the next turns, but there should also be a maximum time. We've done well enough in the past with 48 hours to post instructions and a maximum of 7 days gap between TC.
     
  14. Sigma

    Sigma Censor

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    I've taken all input into consideration, and decided that it would be best to make the President fill the role of Head DP. This option received the most support and I've been leaning towards it the more I've thought about it the last few days.

    With that said, I've drafted up a new section so we can start looking at the details, line by line. I'll need some help fixing some of the "wordy" things. I never was good at writing. ;) Additions are in BLUE, removals are in RED and strikethrough.

    I'm not sure if I like the removal process, but I didn't really get any input on it so I had to come up with something. Please let me know what you think on it, and the rest of the amendment. Of course, everything is up for negotiation, especially numbers.

    Section 4 The Designated Player

    A) The Designated Player
    I. The Designated Player is the person who is tasked to perform the instructions of the officials in the game.

    II. The President shall choose on a session by session basis on whether he shall be the Designated Player of that session or if the session will be played by a member of the Designated Player Pool.

    III. Nominations and elections for the Designated Player shall occur at the time as the other nominations and elections.
    IIIA. Elections for Designated player shall be a multiple choice poll with any and all nominees gathering over 50.00% being elected to the Designated Player Pool.
    IIIB. The Designated Players will play in the order of those who did not play in the last term in order of votes from highest to lowest followed by those who did play last term in order of votes from highest to lowest. Ties in the number of votes will be broken by the first accepted nomination. Once the Designated Player pool is used up, the rotation starts again at the top of the list.​

    IV. A Designated Player shall choose whether his Play Session will be online or offline.

    V. The President may appoint any Citizen as Designated Player at any point in his term. If any Citizen objects to this appointment, he may post a confirmation poll as described in section 8.C.VIA.

    VI. Removal of Designated Players
    VIA. If any Designated Player misses his Turnchat, he will be put up for removal. The President may put any Designated Player up for removal for not following instructions as required of a Designated Player. In addition, the Citizens may petition the President to put a Designated Player up for removal, provided they gather at least five signatures.
    VIB. When put up for removal, the Designated Player has one day to plead his case, after which a recall poll will be posted by the president. The poll will have the question, "Should <name> be removed from the Designated Players?", the answers "Yes", "No", and "Abstain", and will be open for no less than four days. It must be a private poll that all citizens can vote on. If a majority of votes are Yes, excluding Abstain, then the Designated Player is removed.
    VIC. While a Designated Player is up for removal, he is automatically skipped from running any Turnchats.​


    V. If the Designated Player is unavailable to play at the designated time, the highest ranking member of the Triumvirate, or if no Triumvirate members are present, or those present decline to play the highest ranking Cabinet member, or if no Cabinet members are present, or those present decline to play a member of the Designated Player pool at the chat can choose to play the session in place of the Designated Player who is absent or the session can be canceled. (Cancelled instead of going through succession)
    VA. In this instance the absent Designated Player loses his slot until the next run through.

    VI. If the results of an Offline Session are not posted within 48 hours of the designated starting time that game session is declared void and canceled and that Designated Player is skipped and the next Designated Player takes over. (Moved to part B)

    B) Actions of the Designated Player
    I. Instructions of Elected and appointed officials:
    IA. The Designated Player shall follow all instructions from elected and appointed officials regarding their respective areas.
    1. If no instructions from a given office are posted for a game session the Designated Player assumes the powers of that office for the game session.
    2. The Designated Player must refuse all illegal instructions. The Designated Player may request a Judicial Review to determine the validity of an instruction and delay play until the Judicial Review has been completed.​
    IB. Legal Exploits
    1. Any Legal Exploits pertaining to Article E section 4 of the Constitution will go here.​

    II. Scheduling the Turnchat:
    IIA. The Designated Player must acknowledge that it is his turn, schedule his Turnchat, and post the corresponding Instruction Thread no later than 3 days after the start of the term, the end of the previous Turnchat, or the notice that the previous Designated Player has been skipped.
    IIB. The Turnchat must be scheduled for between 2 and 5 days after the date and time the Instruction Thread is posted.
    IIC. If the Designated Player does not post his Instruction Thread within 3 days of his turn, the President may order that the current Designated Player be skipped, and it will become the next Designated Player's turn.
    IID. The Designated Player can at any time voluntarily ask to be skipped. If he has already scheduled a Turnchat, it will be cancelled and the Instruction Thread will be considered void. Upon voluntarily asking to be skipped, the action takes place immediately, and it is the next Designated Player's turn.
    IIE. The Designated Player should notify the President well in advance of any extended periods of absence. This notification should be posted in a public place, and preauthorizes the President to skip that Designated Player without waiting the 3 days if it becomes his turn during a period of absence.​

    III. Rescheduling the Turnchat:
    IIIA. Any member of the Triumvirate or the Censor may ask the current Designated Player to reschedule his turnchat, due to an important decision that needs more time to be made, such as the declaration of war. The Turnchat may be rescheduled for no later than 3 days after than the original Turnchat. A Turnchat may not be rescheduled more than two times in this way.
    IIIB. The Designated Player may reschedule his own Turnchat for any personal reason, provided he gives notice at least one hour in advance. The Turnchat may be rescheduled for no later than 3 days after than the original Turnchat. A Turnchat may not be rescheduled more than once in this way.
    IIIC. If a Designated Player must reschedule his Turnchat for any reason but cannot run it at the new date and time, he may ask to be skipped, and the Turnchat will be deferred to the next Designated Player.​

    IV. Cancelling the Turnchat:
    IVA. The Designated Player may cancel a Turnchat at any time up to 1 hour before its start by asking to be skipped.
    IVB. If the Designated Player does not give notice at least one hour in advance, or misses an online Turnchat completely, it will automatically be cancelled and the Designated Player will be skipped and considered for removal.
    IVC. If the results of an Offline Session are not posted within 48 hours of the designated starting time that game session is declared void and cancelled and that Designated Player will be skipped and considered for removal.​
     
  15. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    seems OK..just quickly read it.

    Wonder if we can get this apporved before next term. It would be good to have the rules in place to start the term...
     
  16. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    :rotfl:

    Any bets on which Justice would shoot it down? My money is on Cyc, though on what grounds it could be rejected I won't make any bets. Just don't make any reference to me and maybe you'll get it by them.
     
  17. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    ...it looks like a more reasonable judiciary next term.... :)
     
  18. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    Did any notice how many DPs there are? Lets try and get everypone that makes it to play at least once :)
     
  19. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    What are we going to do about DP's not following instructions?
    (Seeing the last few turnchats)
     
  20. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    The same thing you do when you disagree with what any other elected official does, not vote them into power again.
     

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