America

[Shind]

I'm curious why america didn't receive any bonus to city states. If anything america is quite adept at manipulating other countries through trade, economic invasion and loans from the world bank/imf. It doesn't always work out as was the case with cuba but it is effective regardless.

 

[m4gill4]

yeah their UA's should be "Finance a coup" and "recruit death squad".

 

[MadRat]

yeah their UA's should be "Finance a coup" and "recruit death squad".

Which are both balanced by the "internet troll" UU and the "victimization QQ" UA.

Rat

 

[snapple232]

They could've done any number of different unique traits for each leader, but I think people in general seem too focused on trying to make Civ 5 a simulation of modern geopolitics (such as suggestions about global warming, tourism, etc.) The last 50-100 years may encompass our entire lives, but it's only a miniscule fraction of the history that the series covers.

 

[Licinia Eudoxia]

I'm curious why america didn't receive any bonus to city states. If anything america is quite adept at manipulating other countries through trade, economic invasion and loans from the world bank/imf. It doesn't always work out as was the case with cuba but it is effective regardless.

It's not especially unique to America, and doesn't necessarily coincide with the general 'simple' image of America (i.e. the caricature you see in a kid's book, France having Napoleon and Musketeers is not ENTIRELY indicative of France, but it's a simple general image that everyone can recognize as 'French.' Same for Washington.) Besides, if you want to look at it that way, then using money to buy tiles and having more sight can also be a way of expressing "expansionist."

Besides, as someone else said, there's no reason to focus so much on modern geopolitics.

 

[Bandit17]

I'm curious why america didn't receive any bonus to city states. If anything america is quite adept at manipulating other countries through trade, economic invasion and loans from the world bank/imf. It doesn't always work out as was the case with cuba but it is effective regardless.

You also need to look at the leader selected. Washington should have 18th century expansionist related abilities and the extra sight, tile purchase and extra rough terrain movement incorparates this rather well as stated above. What you are wanting would be more akin to a more modern leader.

If you want to argue about something we should argue for an added UA (in addition to the so so sight) that allows for a bonus in diplomacy with Native Countries like the Aztecs and Iroquois and others when/if added later. This would simulate America's ability to manipulate the Natives.

 

[Sofar Sogood]

I'm curious why america didn't receive any bonus to city states. If anything america is quite adept at manipulating other countries through trade, economic invasion and loans from the world bank/imf. It doesn't always work out as was the case with cuba but it is effective regardless.

We're clearly not half as adept as we could be.

Anyhoooow... yeah. Not seeing it. I'm fine with America's UA as is. It's nice. Not particularly offensive to Americans (a lot of whom compose the sales base), y'know?

If you want to argue about something we should argue for an added UA (in addition to the so so sight) that allows for a bonus in diplomacy with Native Countries like the Aztecs and Iroquois and others when/if added later. This would simulate America's ability to manipulate the Natives.

Eeeeh. It's a little targeted.

 

[Bandit17]

Eeeeh. It's a little targeted.

Your right, my idea was and does need some rethinking
but my point was that the American UA is underwhelming and a little more meat on those ribs would be nice. Not to mention I thought this would be a stronger argument for changing America's UA's than the OP's.

 

[Licinia Eudoxia]

Eeeeh. It's a little targeted.

And not really compelling or fun. I've seen people with suggestions for UA that is stuff like "10% production bonus" or "+25% great person rate." Most of the UA need to be stuff that is more interesting than this. Something that, in general, adds a different dynamic to playing that Civ. The most borderline case I would see is the Egyptian UA, but I really like wonders a lot, so I think it's pretty great.

I do agree though that Washington's UA is very lackluster from a gameplay standpoint, mostly because buying tiles is very rarely that big of a deal (the only time I've bought tiles was when I needed a resource quickly, or I needed to block an opponent from getting that tile quickly. That doesn't happen very often), and +1 Sight to Military Units can be nice, but simply doesn't really effect the way you play the Civ.

Thematically, I think the UA is very nicely suited to America. From a gameplay standpoint, I think it needs improvement to make America more interesting.


This also isn't helped by the fact that the fast technology rate in Civ 5 also makes the Flying Fortress sort of negligible, since the Stealth Bomber is so absolutely, billions of times better than it.

Also, musketmen are not a unit I get much use out of, (especially since you can't promote to them, you have to go Longswordsmen/Pike men -> Riflemen), so while the Minutemen have a nice bonus ability, the only reason they're not mostly worthless is that you can promote Minutemen and keep the promotion.

 

[Bandit17]

Licinia: I do agree though that Washington's UA is very lackluster from a gameplay standpoint, mostly because buying tiles is very rarely that big of a deal (the only time I've bought tiles was when I needed a resource quickly, or I needed to block an opponent from getting that tile quickly. That doesn't happen very often), and +1 Sight to Military Units can be nice, but simply doesn't really effect the way you play the Civ.

I totally agree with this statement. What would be cool is if all American melee units got the terrain movement bonus. Warriors would be more fun for sure! Maybe too poweful? Not sure. It would eliminate the American Musket UU but maybe replace it with a Liberty Frigate of sorts with extra vs ship damage or one free promotion.

 

[Licinia Eudoxia]

I totally agree with this statement. What would be cool is if all American melee units got the terrain movement bonus. Warriors would be more fun for sure! Maybe too poweful? Not sure. It would eliminate the American Musket UU but maybe replace it with a Liberty Frigate of sorts with extra vs ship damage or one free promotion.

I think give it to all melee units would be too powerful, although it might be more balanced if other Civs got that too (All Aztec Melee units get the Jaguar abilities, etc.). I think that would be a little crazy though. Not sure of the balance.

Also, rather than a Liberty Frigate, I think special Aircraft Carriers might be nice. Not sure what the bonus would be, but having special Aircraft Carriers would make sense for America.

I would say a special Ironclad, since the Monitor v. Merrimac from the American Civil War, while an unspectacular battle (they fought to a draw after like eight hours, I think?), basically changed naval warfare around the world, but Ironclads are another unit, like Musketmen, that are almost useless because of where they sit in the tech tree and the role they play.

 

[Reginleif]

Why do people call people from the US Americans? Arn't they technically called Yankees?

 

[Guardian_PL]

yeah their UA's should be "Finance a coup" and "recruit death squad".

Which are both balanced by the "internet troll" UU and the "victimization QQ" UA.

Rat

Yeah right, check out how US has treated indigenous people over the years and then come back, mmk?

Land of the free my arse.
Moderator Action: Don't troll here.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[DalekDavros]

yeah their UA's should be "Finance a coup" and "recruit death squad".

That sounds too passive. I'd rather have a UU like "CIA provocateur" (replaces Spy, if espionage is ever added back in) or a UB like "Voice of America" (replaces Broadcast Tower).

 

[MadRat]

Land of the free my arse.

Roughage helps with that.
Moderator Action: And don't troll back.

Rat

 

[Putmalk]

I don't understand why America's UA doesn't have something to do with their extreme productive capabilities? Like, +20% production when building units and buildings when Replaceable Parts is researched.

 

[smellymummy]

seems to me the american UA represents the manifest destiny. westward expansion, louis and clark, that kind of stuff, although the cheaper tiles i'd associate it more with earlier periods, like the manhattan island purchase (yes not bought by americans)

then again you could put in there the louisiana and alaska purchase as examples

 

[Licinia Eudoxia]

I don't understand why America's UA doesn't have something to do with their extreme productive capabilities? Like, +20% production when building units and buildings when Replaceable Parts is researched.

Because while America was a major producer and manufacturer for a long time, it's not really unique to America, and also, simple production bonuses are really boring UAs (in my opinion). They can be good. Just boring. It doesn't change much the way you play, although I guess you could slingshot for Replaceable Parts or something.

Although I do like the idea of linking it to Replaceable Parts, that might be too late in the game for it to be good, unless you increased the % a lot, and at that point, it might be too overpowering once you DO get Replaceable Parts.


Manifest Destiny is a very good thematic power for America, it's just that buying tiles is never really that critical, and you can go an entire game without ever wanting to buy a tile, and the Sight isn't terrifically effective.

Joke Idea: Make the UA give 1 Culture per city owned by another player once Globalization is researched. It would fit, and maybe help counter ICS.

 

[wurstburst]

I don't mind the UA. They are weak compared to other civs, but at least interesting. The problem is that along with that, both UU are non-upgradable from earlier units (with meh abilities), making them much much less useful.

It would be in character to make their UU a rifleman replacement, since America's military really came into it's power in the 20th century. I wouldn't make them more powerful necessarily, but perhaps cheaper to build (and upgrade!) and one free promotion if built might make sense to simulate the American war production and training capabilities in that era. The bomber is a complete waste. Instead a UB with gold implications would make a lot more sense and actually have some use. Perhaps a stock exchange replacement. Something with decent power to propel their gold economy in the late game.

Even with these changes, America would still be a second tier civ in this game since the top civs are those with early game units and powers. But there should at least be some good rewards for surviving the early game without the early bonuses of other civs.

On topic, city state manipulation seems a bit out of character, to me. You could argue that with their impact on global politics and strong influence on the founding of the UN and the earlier league of nations that a diplomacy related UA makes sense. But city state influence doesn't really tie in historically to the US. It's the game's mechanic for diplomatic victory, but that's not the way the US dealt with diplomacy, since city states weren't really around in this timeframe. A possible UA that would fit better might be: one extra vote in the UN vote. You can't really tie in a UA that affects intra-civ deals, since in multi-player that would be untenable.

Another possibility: able to move through other civs as if you have open borders with them. This could simulated America's intelligence gathering arms, or their global diplomatic reach. That would be a nice little UA for scouting without being overpowering (I think).

Anyway, just some random thoughts.

 

[Licinia Eudoxia]

I think it's better to just not consider espionage related abilities unless they add Espionage to the game, really.

I do like the Stock Exchange idea though.

Hah, maybe make their UA cause oil tiles to produce more gold and more production, but give 1 less Oil as a Strategic Resource.