ExpiredReign
Deity
If it gets more people trying different civs, I'm all for it. This was the first time I actually played America because, you know... America
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America
- Thread starter Funak
- Start date
If it gets more people trying different civs, I'm all for it. This was the first time I actually played America because, you know... America
If it gets more people trying different civs, I'm all for it. This was the first time I actually played America because, you know... America
I guess I'll do something like this I'll put a thread up and do weekly civ-rotations, either randomized or I guess people can come with suggestions that fit with the date.
Anyways what were your thoughts on America?
You're right, I was somehow mixing Archaeology and Scientific Theory's positions together in my head, probably because there's a lot of incentive try to get Archaeology immediately after Sci. Theory, so I was comparing a beginning-of-industrial tech with one prerequisite to an end-of renaissance with two. Yeah, in that case the minuteman comes appreciably earlier than the Smithsonian.
Definitely an interesting event. I know there's a lot of civs I just haven't bothered trying out because I can't remember what the UB and UU did and the UA sounded unexciting.
ExpiredReign
Deity
I'm currently gearing up for a major war against Japan with possibly China, who occupies the same landmass. I suffered from an isolated start for the first stage of the game with just 3 CS sharing the landmass I was on, so when I finally found these two they were a couple of techs ahead of me.
Went Progress and built a few Wonders in my production heavy cities so I'm not sure yet which victory to go for, wanted to try for scientific for a change but conquest or cultural look viable alternatives.
At this stage I haven't built minutemen or the Smithsonian so I can't speak as to those uniques but the buying owned land is an odd beast. I settled close to CSes with major resources and just bought the land. Win-win. Close to CSes to keep'em safe from barbarian hordes and still get the resources if another AI takes them as ally, though that ain't gonna happen.
Don't know whether I'd choose them again as the initial play was sort of... meh.
Went Progress and built a few Wonders in my production heavy cities so I'm not sure yet which victory to go for, wanted to try for scientific for a change but conquest or cultural look viable alternatives.
At this stage I haven't built minutemen or the Smithsonian so I can't speak as to those uniques but the buying owned land is an odd beast. I settled close to CSes with major resources and just bought the land. Win-win. Close to CSes to keep'em safe from barbarian hordes and still get the resources if another AI takes them as ally, though that ain't gonna happen.
Don't know whether I'd choose them again as the initial play was sort of... meh.
Seems like a good plan. Next week's could be Mongolia in honor of Naadam (basically the Mongolian Olympics, Jul 11-14) or France for Bastille Day (Jul 14), and the week after that could be Korea for the founding of the Joseon Dynasty and modern Constitution Day (Jul 17), Ethiopia for the birthday of Haile Selassie (Jul 23), or Greece for the birthday of Alexander the Great (Jul 20).
This is going off topic, but thank you a lot.
mikes61293
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2015
- Messages
- 107
I'm in the middle of an America game right now. So far both parts of the UA are great. The ability to buy tiles from other players changes how you settle. The extra sight helps pick up more ruins in the early game. I haven't gotten to the UU or UB but on paper the UB doesn't seem that great. I'll have to see how it preforms in game.
I'd definitely like to have a civ of the week though. It should give us better balance discussions.
I'd definitely like to have a civ of the week though. It should give us better balance discussions.
Stangle Khan
Warlord
I played an America game recently.
I agree that the +1 sight is utterly fantastic. It's not only good for scouting but also good for war. It lets you move your units better and it's hard to get ambushed as America.
The ability to buy owned tiles might as well not exist. It's so rarely worth it that I bought maybe 5 tiles during the whole game.
Minuteman is a spot on perfect UU. No need to complain.
The Smithsonian is one of my absolute least favorite UBs in the game. I don't like any of the National Wonder style UBs in the first place but this one has a special hatred in my heart. It comes so late in the game that the chances of it actually doing anything by that point are essentially zero. It will either help you win a little faster or make you lose a little slower. Unless you're playing on a really high difficulty setting, I don't see it ever making a difference. And the fact that it synergizes so freaking well with Order bothers me on some fundamental level despite the fact that Order is my favorite ideology.
Overall:
America has a good UU and the +1 sight is nice. The rest is pretty bad. America is definitely one of the weakest Civs at the moment. I really can't think of any other civ with such a mediocre UA and an okay UB that doesn't unlock until so late in the game.
I agree that the +1 sight is utterly fantastic. It's not only good for scouting but also good for war. It lets you move your units better and it's hard to get ambushed as America.
The ability to buy owned tiles might as well not exist. It's so rarely worth it that I bought maybe 5 tiles during the whole game.
Minuteman is a spot on perfect UU. No need to complain.
The Smithsonian is one of my absolute least favorite UBs in the game. I don't like any of the National Wonder style UBs in the first place but this one has a special hatred in my heart. It comes so late in the game that the chances of it actually doing anything by that point are essentially zero. It will either help you win a little faster or make you lose a little slower. Unless you're playing on a really high difficulty setting, I don't see it ever making a difference. And the fact that it synergizes so freaking well with Order bothers me on some fundamental level despite the fact that Order is my favorite ideology.
Overall:
America has a good UU and the +1 sight is nice. The rest is pretty bad. America is definitely one of the weakest Civs at the moment. I really can't think of any other civ with such a mediocre UA and an okay UB that doesn't unlock until so late in the game.
Dawnbringer
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2016
- Messages
- 102
I disagree with America being one of the weakest civs. I think they are one of the more consistent civilizations being able to get off the ground. The CSD based civs are overall weaker because the stars need to align usually before they can even get a chance to win. America is at least more flexible and can generate advantages via forward settling and taking away key strategic resources from city states and other players.
Yeah, Austria is by far the weakest civ in the game. Everything is lategame and even when they finally get active they are underwhelming. Siam probably fall into this category as well but I haven't studied them enough to say for sure. Greece is surviving only on their early uniques (and their leader's awesome flavors)
Other than that I'm not sure if there are many civs worse than America, probably some, but America is definitely on the lower end of the spectrum.
Yeah I'll move on with this plan. It will be fun at least.
EDIT: Turns out I won't do that, as apparently Gazebo doesn't like fun, or me.
JungleBucks
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2015
- Messages
- 187
I know that feeling. Anyways, I've played America quite a bit myself, and from my most recent experience, I ended up stomping out my peers in a war I never wanted to start, but inevitably finished. I was going for a cultural victory, my only real threat was China, who was just as big of a cultural powerhouse as myself, and I thought to myself, "Once I get the Smithsonian, I'll surely be able to Influence her by the end of the game." The short story is that I won a diplomacy victory a few turns before she would've pulled off a Scientific Victory, and even so, I just barely made it.
In this playthrough however, I remember my tourism taking a pretty big leap from 80-something to 110, after the Smithsonian came into play. I already had my museums set up and I was ridiculously wide, so it was a pretty great buff in my book, but I can't really tell how great that is compared to a normal Hermitage. If the Smithsonian should have a buff, as you and Funak suggested, perhaps something involving gaining scientific specialist, or a buff to the specialist in the city where it's built would do the trick, or since the Smitsonian contains quite a few buildings dedicated to Native American and African history along with quite a few other regions in the world, a bonus based on OTHER civilizations. Particularly, a small bonus from allied City-States. Then, at least one could justify going Freedom for your maximum melting pot of nations, America fix.
Finally, I like the UA. If feels good having that vision, and tactically buying tiles for my Great Generals to build Citadels in is INCREDIBLY satisfying. (Though I'll admit it makes me less than pleased when I'm on the receiving end. If you're buying my tiles, how come I'm not getting some money out of it?
) I also love the Minuetmen, though I'm just a fan of highly mobile uniques in general.
Aldebaran1997
Prince
One day I played as Washington, some ideas suddenly across my mind. Why America has +1 sight UA? It does not go with others(decrease cost of buying land, enable buying non-neutral land) and America even doesn't have a 3+ range UU. Therefore, I suggest its replacement in spite of its usefulness.
How about corporation UA for America? These are profits when my idea becomes true :
First, even though Vox Populi has unique corporation feature, there is no UA interacting with it.
If American UA had corporation benefits, it should be more interesting than the former while playing as Washington.(at my point of view)
Second, the existing UAs assist founding coporation by buying neutral or not lux tile.
It means that corporation related UA is more harmonious than the former.(I think)
Third, it fits well with American late-game-friendly concept.
Forth, it is historically more correct.(very subjective view)
How about corporation UA for America? These are profits when my idea becomes true :
First, even though Vox Populi has unique corporation feature, there is no UA interacting with it.
If American UA had corporation benefits, it should be more interesting than the former while playing as Washington.(at my point of view)
Second, the existing UAs assist founding coporation by buying neutral or not lux tile.
It means that corporation related UA is more harmonious than the former.(I think)
Third, it fits well with American late-game-friendly concept.
Forth, it is historically more correct.(very subjective view)
JungleBucks
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2015
- Messages
- 187
No need to change a perfectly working UA (I tried in the Russia thread, and trust me, they never go anywhere). Also, Gazebo's mentioned this before, but we're basically pass the point of no return for making new/heavily modified UAs. Now, we tweak and adjust.
The problem is that America already have 2 late-game uniques, making their third unique late-game based as well is going to make them useless.
Aldebaran1997
Prince
I see, thanks. I was just unsatisfied because there is no UA for fantastic corporation feature.
Hey, guy who told Funak about the 4th of July tradition in Twitch chat here 
Unfortunately I play civ pretty slowly, over the course of about a week, so I only just hit the Renaissance. I'm doing Standard Continents on King. Haven't gotten to minutemen or the Smithsonian yet, and I've found the UA pretty underwhelming so far. Maybe it's just cause I got unlucky with AIs finding ruins really fast despite my first build Scout, but I feel like the extra sight got me maybe 1 ruin I wouldn't have already gotten. In wars I find that I can usually set up a unit in a cheesy location where he can give me vision I need then pop back, so I don't find that much value in the vision there either. I went Progress and put out 6 cities pretty quick, which hit me pretty hard in terms of happiness and gold, and the cheaper tile buying did help me grab a few key luxury and high yield tiles. But that's just a little bit of gold saved. I settled next to a city state that has Cerro de Potosi, but by the time I could afford to buy the tile from them, it will hardly even be worth working.
I'm enjoying the game just cause it's fun to do wide Progress for the first time with the mod, and I'm looking forward to buying up Austria and Spain's land (Austria already declared war on me but it was like 3 units vs 3 so it went nowhere for either of us.) But it can't help but feel like an underwhelming version of the Shoshone's strengths towards ruins and land grabbing. I wonder if increasing their strength and fun factor would be as simple as upping the tile cost reduction to 60%-75% ?
I'll post more when I actually finish this game. Also just wanted to say that I prefer Funak's version of the weekly challenge/event/whatever. I prefer it being freeform with people reporting back with their different playstyles and outcomes with the civ. But I know Gazebo didn't mean any harm in starting his own thread and just wanted to take initiative on a cool idea. And finally, thanks for bringing my lame tradition over here
Unfortunately I play civ pretty slowly, over the course of about a week, so I only just hit the Renaissance. I'm doing Standard Continents on King. Haven't gotten to minutemen or the Smithsonian yet, and I've found the UA pretty underwhelming so far. Maybe it's just cause I got unlucky with AIs finding ruins really fast despite my first build Scout, but I feel like the extra sight got me maybe 1 ruin I wouldn't have already gotten. In wars I find that I can usually set up a unit in a cheesy location where he can give me vision I need then pop back, so I don't find that much value in the vision there either. I went Progress and put out 6 cities pretty quick, which hit me pretty hard in terms of happiness and gold, and the cheaper tile buying did help me grab a few key luxury and high yield tiles. But that's just a little bit of gold saved. I settled next to a city state that has Cerro de Potosi, but by the time I could afford to buy the tile from them, it will hardly even be worth working.
I'm enjoying the game just cause it's fun to do wide Progress for the first time with the mod, and I'm looking forward to buying up Austria and Spain's land (Austria already declared war on me but it was like 3 units vs 3 so it went nowhere for either of us.) But it can't help but feel like an underwhelming version of the Shoshone's strengths towards ruins and land grabbing. I wonder if increasing their strength and fun factor would be as simple as upping the tile cost reduction to 60%-75% ?
I'll post more when I actually finish this game. Also just wanted to say that I prefer Funak's version of the weekly challenge/event/whatever. I prefer it being freeform with people reporting back with their different playstyles and outcomes with the civ. But I know Gazebo didn't mean any harm in starting his own thread and just wanted to take initiative on a cool idea. And finally, thanks for bringing my lame tradition over here
Playing a game in v. 7-30 as Poland and I have America as a neighbor. In many ways I feel that manifest destiny is way overpowered, as there is NO way to combat against it and it seems to have no cool down period. America keeps buying up my territory and as we have been declared friends for a very long time and they are great trading partners I don't really want to wipe them off the map. Plus they have defensive pacts with my other BFFs the Celts and Babylon. Seems unfair that I just have to allow them to steal my territory as I don't want to get involved in a three front war with my best friends due to a weird special power that I can't defend against.
How does the mechanic for Manifest Destiny work? Does the cost go up for each foreign tile bought? Is there a cool down period?
How does the mechanic for Manifest Destiny work? Does the cost go up for each foreign tile bought? Is there a cool down period?
This is America's thing, really there only thing. It looks like they are fully utilizing their ability, sucked you in to trading with them, have good defensive pacts to keep you at bay. They are playing how they are supposed to play, you can always DOW if it gets too bad.
Ultimately the ability is powerful, but this is the one tool America has up their sleeve, they don't really have any thing that helps them get any win conditions
