American Football: Who would you take in the first round of the Draft?

[wtiberon]

Draft is only a month and a half away guess its time to start projecting. The sorry azz Bengals get the first pick...if you were the Bengals who would you take?

Edit: Damn meant to put up a poll...well here are your choices

QB:
Brad Banks, Iowa
Carson Palmer, USC
Kyle Boller, Cal
Dave Ragone, Louisville
Brooks Bollinger, Wisconsin
Chris Simms, Texas
Rex Grossman, Florida
Seneca Wallace, Iowa St.
Byron Leftwich, Marshall
RB:
Chris Brown, Colorado
Musa Smith, Georgia
Justin Fargas, USC
Onterrio Smith, Oregon
Larry Johnson, Penn State
Lee Suggs, Virginia Tech
Willis McGahee, Miami
WR:
Anquan Boldin, Florida State
Andre Johnson, Miami
Tyrone Calico, Middle Tennessee State
Bryant Johnson, Penn State
Kevin Curtis, Utah State
Charles Rogers, Michigan State
Talman Gardner, Florida State
Kelley Washington, Tennessee
Taylor Jacobs, Florida
TE:
Dallas Clark, Iowa
Robert Johnson, Auburn
Mike Pinkard, Arizona State
Trent Smith, Oklahoma
Ben Joppru, Michigan
Jason Witten, Tennessee
George Wrighster, Oregon
OL:
Jordan Gross, Utah
Derrick Dockery, Texas
Jeff Faine, Notre Dame
Kwame Harris, Stanford
Vince Manuwai, Hawaii
Al Johnson, Wisconsin
Wayne Hunter, Hawaii
Torrin Tucker, So. Miss.
Bruce Nelson, Iowa
Brett Williams, FSU
Eric Steinbach, Iowa
DL:
Jerome McDougle, Miami
William Joseph, Miami
Dewayne Robertson, Kentucky
Jimmy Kennedy, Penn State
Terrell Suggs, Arizona State
Rien Long, Washington State
Kevin Williams, Oklahoma State
Johnathan Sullivan, Georgia
LB:
Boss Bailey, Georgia
Mario Haggan, Mississippi State
Gerald Hayes, Pittsburgh
E.J. Henderson, Maryland
Bradie James, LSU
Mike Nattiel, Florida
Terry Pierce, Kansas State
DB:
Terence Newman, Kansas St.
Mike Doss, Ohio St.
Marcus Trufant, Washington St.
Ken Hamlin, Arkansas
Dennis Weathersby, Oregon St.
Rashean Mathis, Bethune-Cookman
Andre Woolfolk, Oklahoma
Troy Polamalu, USC

Of course there are more up to be drafted but these are the top candidates so feel free to chose one not on the list.

 

[MrPresident]

You couldn't explain to me what the draft is, could you? (Serious question)

 

[tcjsavannah]

Byron Leftwich, hands down.

Of course, I'd personally hate it if the Bengals did pick him. That's a fate I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

 

[CamBot]

I hope the Lions pick up Charles Rogers - a tall receiver with phenomenal speed.

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by MrPresident
You couldn't explain to me what the draft is, could you? (Serious question)

Hey no problem be glad to return the favor:

In American football there are two major platforms College and N.F.L. (National Football League). College Football is acts as a kind of tryout for the NFL and how they perform during their college career dictates their worth to the NFL. At the beginning of the NFL season each team takes turns picking a college player in what is called the Draft. The order that a team picks the player is determined by the previous seasons standings with the worst team getting the first pick and the Best team getting the last. There are seven rounds (i think) with each team taking a player every round.

Of course there is a whole strategy of trading your picks for other players or whatever so it is concevable to have multiple picks in a round or none at all.

 

[MrPresident]

The order that a team picks the player is determined by the previous seasons standings with the worst team getting the first pick and the Best team getting the last.

Doesn't this encourage poor teams with no hope of winning anything to play really poorly in order to get the best players next season? And do the players have any say in who they join? Who decides how much a player is paid if they have no say in who they join?

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by MrPresident

Doesn't this encourage poor teams with no hope of winning anything to play really poorly in order to get the best players next season? And do the players have any say in who they join? Who decides how much a player is paid if they have no say in who they join?

No because a coach's job in the NFL is very fragile...the NFL is a very demanding league and if a coach doesn't provide results quickly (what is considered results vary from owner to owner) he is fired so such a strategy is probably never used...even second to last is better than last. Edit: Also having the first round pick is not always an advantage. You have to pay more for a first pick and the player your team needs may be able to be picked up in later draft picks. Also your doing an aweful lot of gambling in picking the first player because many players who are good in college do not pan out in the NFL. It isn't rare to see a 4th or 5th round pick who never did much in college become a superstar in the League.

The players do not have a choice in who drafts them however they can chose to not sign with the team...the problem with this is they still belong to the team and the player has to have permission from this team to sign with another team. Usually if this happens a team will trade that player for other players.

Ok here it might get tricky I'll explain this as best I can...
Price of a player has MANY determinants. Players are represented by agents who negotiate with teams for salary. A few things that affects an agents bargaining ability is:

1) which pick the player was with the first pick being the most expensive and last pick the cheapest (usually gets the league minimum)
2) The position of the player with Quarterback being the most expensive followed by Wide Reciever, Linebacker, Defensive line, etc)
3) The college career stats of the player (ie did he win any awards like the Hiesman? Did he set any records?)
4) Salary Cap of the team...each team is limited in its spending of its players by a Salary Cap. I would explain this to you but it is VERY complex. The gest is though that a team can only spend a certain amount of money each season on its players. This is used to control players salaries (which can get out of control) and to even the playing field for all teams (so teams can't spend ungodly amounts of money and field an all star team). So each team has a salary cap expert (its that complicated) that determines what price they can or cannot afford.

Hope this helps if you have anymore question feel free to ask

 

[MrPresident]

Thanks for answers so far but I have a few more questions. What happens if a College player isn't drafted? Is there no chance he will play in the NFL in the future? Is there some sort of lower league in American football? Do you have to go to College to play in the NFL? Why are teams allowed to move cities? Why do the fans allow it? Are players transferred for large sums of money? What happens when a players contract runs out? Can they move for free? Can any player from any College enter the draft? Who decides who is in the draft and who isn't?

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by MrPresident
Thanks for answers so far but I have a few more questions. What happens if a College player isn't drafted?

A college player can still be selected as an undrafted free agent. That means that he can tryout for the team after the draft and during the team training periods known as "mini camps".

Is there no chance he will play in the NFL in the future?

Assuming he does not get picked up as an undrafted free agent he can still tryout another year and every year he wants to so all hope is not lost

Is there some sort of lower league in American football?

Some players who cannot get into the NFL sharpen their skills in NFL Europe or the CFL (Canadian Football Players). Also an Arena Football League has started which is a different kind of Football with some different rules but mostly the same. So there are several leagues a football player can chose from but the coveted prize is that multi-million dollar NFL contract .

Do you have to go to College to play in the NFL?

Thats a good question I'm not really sure...I know you have to have a minimum of 2 years of college to enter the draft but I'm not sure about Free Agents. Players are always described by which college they attended and I have never seen a player without a college so I can say with reasonable confindence that they would have to but again I can't be 100 percent.

Why are teams allowed to move cities?

Hehe many fans ask this same question...there are two major factors that often play into this. One is revenue...is the city producing enough fans that come see the game. Two deals with the stadium...Often when a team is in a city for a long time the stadium can become run down and owners cannot afford the heafty price tag so they rely on the city and taxpayers to build a new one. If the owner thinks it is time to try another city than he can put a vote to the other league owners whether he can move his team or not. Or if your the owner of the Raiders you just move your team just because .

Why do the fans allow it?

They don't have much of a say...were not prone to start demostrations or anything silly for football since it is still just a game.

Are players transferred for large sums of money?

I assume you mean traded...there is some money in trades but the real money is the the Free Agent system. This system was created to allow a player once his contract was up to shop around to other teams and see where he can get the best price tag. Again money is negotiated between an agent and team and how that player preforms + position + how bad that team needs him determines his salary. Top players can make up to 12 million dollars a season.

What happens when a players contract runs out?

Very good question...some may think that you would simply renegotiate it or sign with another team but not in the NFL . Teams have taggers they can place on certain players to keep them from leaving their team. One is 'Franchise Player' which means that the player cannot under any circumstance sign with another team without the permission of the team (usually heavy compensation is needed for them to trade or release the player),
another is 'Restricted Free Agent' this mean the player can shop around but the team has the right to match any offer to retain the player, finally there is 'Unrestricted Free Agent' which means the player is free to go whereever they chose.

Can any player from any College enter the draft?

Yes

Who decides who is in the draft and who isn't?

All college players are considered in the draft it is up to the teams and who they pick.

If you have more keep em coming

 

[MrPresident]

Often when a team is in a city for a long time the stadium can become run down and owners cannot afford the heafty price tag so they rely on the city and taxpayers to build a new one.

The taxpayers pay for the new stadium? What if the taxpayers don't support that team? Doesn't this go against the "free market" principles of America? What if you have two teams in the same area?

were not prone to start demostrations or anything silly for football since it is still just a game.

Culture clash. You mean you don't hold demonstrations outside the ground calling for the sacking of the manager (coach) or the removal of the chairman?

I assume you mean traded...there is some money in trades but the real money is the the Free Agent system.

So there aren't any big money 'trades' between clubs? By that I mean one club pays a hell of a lot of money to another club to buy a player out of his contract? This happens all the time in football (soccer), the lower teams rely on this as a source of income.

Top players can make up to 12 million dollars a season.

If you have more keep em coming

Why is there just one division (I think this means something different in American football. By division I mean one level where all the teams are at the same level)? Wouldn't American Football be more competitive if there was relegation and promption? I know that if there is a draw the match goes into overtime but is there any time limit on the overtime? Could they, in theory, go on playing forever? Is there a limit to the number of players in each squad? Or does it just depend on how many you are afford? Do fans care about winning anything but the superbowl? Or do they care about winning the division or the league? Why the season so short? Why do they play only once a week? Why aren't there any other competitions such as a cup? During a game do the fans chant and sing? If so, are they any universal chants/songs that pretty much every fan does? How long does the average game last? Is there ever any kind of crowd trouble at the matches? Do the away fans have to separated from the home fans? Are there away fans? Is the NFL really competitive? Or do a few teams always dominate? Thanks, again.

 

[tcjsavannah]

Relegation is a concept that very few Americans understand, much less want to happen. When US cities acquire/are awarded a "Major League" franchise, they fully expect that franchise to remain a "Major League" franchise no matter what happens and no matter how badly they play.

Personally, I think it would be a fantastic concept to deal with the current inequities in several sports (baseball, football, NBA) but it'll never fly because owners of major sports franchises shelled out enough $$ to get these teams that they can stonewall any attempts to relegate their franchises to minor league status. Heck, Peter Angelos has the Washington DC area over a barrel right now in preventing them from getting the Montreal Expos (baseball) to move there just because it would be too close to his team's geographical area and fan base.

 

[Rhye]

Wow, MrPresident asked a lot of question which I'd like to know, too.
But I have the answer to one of them.
I brought an American to my city stadium. A thing that very few tourists do (and it is important instead, because you'll really "live" an afternoon in Europe).
Naturally he was shocked
He had never seen a football (soccer) match, and he didn't understand why all people stand up for 90 minutes and sing. He didn't undertand why there were so many police corps. He asked me why people here don't paint his face. And he thought we were all crazy, looking at our reaction when our team scored the 2:1 at 88'.
He said that people in America sit down (but they have flags) and usually don't sing. Basket and baseball spectators are very quiet; football spectator a little less, but nothing compared with soccer.


By the way, thanks wtiberon for having written "American football" in the thread title. It avoided a lot of discussion caused by misunderstandigs

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by MrPresident

The taxpayers pay for the new stadium? What if the taxpayers don't support that team? Doesn't this go against the "free market" principles of America? What if you have two teams in the same area?

There is a voting system that is involved. The City council holds a vote to see if stadiums or teams are approved or dissapproved. BTW much of American Industry are subsidized by the government. If two teams share the same city they share the stadium...the NFL will schedule their games so as they will play at different times.

Culture clash. You mean you don't hold demonstrations outside the ground calling for the sacking of the manager (coach) or the removal of the chairman?

lol nope we don't take our sports as seriously as the rest of the world.

So there aren't any big money 'trades' between clubs? By that I mean one club pays a hell of a lot of money to another club to buy a player out of his contract? This happens all the time in football (soccer), the lower teams rely on this as a source of income.

It's possible but rarely happens. Usually a team wants to hold on to its big money player since as I said before results are VERY important in the NFL. So it rarely happens that a superstar player EVER gets traded but it does happen. Usually this only happens when a team has two superstars in the same position and can't afford both. However the trading team gains a big advantage at the bargaining table (just because of how the rules are set up) and could walk away with a few draft picks and several other lesser players to boot (Monetary compensation is rare). We don't have teams that financially are weaker than other teams because of the massive popularity of the NFL and the Salary Cap keeps the playing field very level. However we do have teams that can't ever seem to put together a winning team year after year but its for other reasons.

Why is there just one division (I think this means something different in American football. By division I mean one level where all the teams are at the same level)?

There have been other leagues that have come and gone...the First major competitive league that rivaled the NFL was the AFL (American Football League) It gained major popularity in the 60s and early 70s until the two leagues merged. In the 80s another upstart was the USFL (United States Football League) but it couldn't compete with players salaries and revenue was anemic so it folded. Just recently there was another league the XFL (Xtreme Football League) which was such a miserable failure it folded after one season. The only league inside america that has had any sustainability is the Arena Football League which is a kind of minor league for the NFL.

Wouldn't American Football be more competitive if there was relegation and promption? I know that if there is a draw the match goes into overtime but is there any time limit on the overtime?

In overtime during the regular season there are two fifteen minute sudden death overtime. Sudden death means the first opponent to score wins. However during the postseason the number of overtime quarters is unlimited. So they could in theory play forever although overtime is rare because of the scoring system. In fact there have only been a hand ful of ties between teams in the regular season since the league began in the 1930s.

Is there a limit to the number of players in each squad? Or does it just depend on how many you are afford?

Yes I believe the limit is 52 players but don't quote me .

Do fans care about winning anything but the superbowl? Or do they care about winning the division or the league?

There is a saying in Football that second place is the first place loser...the goal in the NFL is to win the Superbowl little else really matters.

Why the season so short? Why do they play only once a week?

Europeans really have a hard time understanding the brutality involved in American Football. Many think that because Rugby players don't use pads that they are somehow tougher but American football is THE most brutal game. We could argue this if you want but it is doubtful I could convince you without actually playing the game. Players need a week or so to recuperate from the brutal hits they sustain during the game. The season is short because most of the team wouldn't be left...in american football player injury is part of the game. It is not uncommon for a team to lose 10 to 20 or so players in a season.

Why aren't there any other competitions such as a cup? During a game do the fans chant and sing? If so, are they any universal chants/songs that pretty much every fan does? How long does the average game last? Is there ever any kind of crowd trouble at the matches? Do the away fans have to separated from the home fans? Are there away fans?

Cup??? Yeah they sometimes do...such as if an away team is losing pretty bad they might sing "na na na na hey hey hey good bye"...stuff like that but not nearly as much as Europeans. Don't be fooled though Americans are hardcore sports fans we just are very conservative in our self expression. If the game is good you will see alot of shouting and jumping around...we have things like the 'wave'...stuff like that. Fans can get roudy...during a game between the Raiders and Patriots the refs made a controversial call (but correct) that cost the Raiders the game. Fans in Oakland began to riot setting cars on fire, vandalism, etc. So it happens just not as much as it does in Europe. There is no rivalry between fans...you almost never see fans fighting each other...in fact I have never seen it. Yes we have many dedicated fans that travel from city to city.

Is the NFL really competitive? Or do a few teams always dominate? Thanks, again.

It is VERY competitive...it wasn't always though. Up until the early nineties about 4 or 5 teams dominated the league...then the NFL created the Free Agent system and the Salary cap that leveled the field for all teams...now it is not uncommon for a team to finish last one season then win the superbowl the next.

No problem keep em coming if you want

 

[tcjsavannah]

An NFL roster consists of 52 players, of which only 45 may be active during a game day. These are broken down (usually) like this:

3 Quarterbacks (and the third stringer can only come in if something happens to the first two - if he does, that team MUST finish the game with the third string QB)
3-4 Running backs
6-7 Wide Receivers
3 Tight Ends
11-12 Offensive Linemen
8-9 Defensive Linemen
5-6 Linebackers
7-8 Defensive Backs
1 Kicker
1 Punter
1-2 "Special Teams" players (who play only on kickoffs, punts, extra points and field goals)

Different philosophies (offensive and defensive) determine how many of each position are carried on the roster. Some defensive-minded coaches may take a spot away from the offense in order to carry another player.

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by tcjsavannah
An NFL roster consists of 52 players, of which only 45 may be active during a game day. These are broken down (usually) like this:

3 Quarterbacks (and the third stringer can only come in if something happens to the first two - if he does, that team MUST finish the game with the third string QB)
3-4 Running backs
6-7 Wide Receivers
3 Tight Ends
11-12 Offensive Linemen
8-9 Defensive Linemen
5-6 Linebackers
7-8 Defensive Backs
1 Kicker
1 Punter
1-2 "Special Teams" players (who play only on kickoffs, punts, extra points and field goals)

Different philosophies (offensive and defensive) determine how many of each position are carried on the roster. Some defensive-minded coaches may take a spot away from the offense in order to carry another player.

oops 52 is what I meant your right though about active and reserve players

 

[wtiberon]

DP

 

[MrPresident]

If two teams share the same city they share the stadium...the NFL will schedule their games so as they will play at different times.

This happens in football (soccer) too. However usually it is only for a season or two as one of teams develops another stadium.

lol nope we don't take our sports as seriously as the rest of the world.

As Bill Shankly (former Liverpool football manager also known as God) once said, "Football isn't a game of life and death. It's more important than that."

We don't have teams that financially are weaker than other teams because of the massive popularity of the NFL and the Salary Cap keeps the playing field very level.

Don't some teams have more supporters than another? And therefore have more money?

In fact there have only been a hand ful of ties between teams in the regular season since the league began in the 1930s.

So that is why Americans don't get the beauty of a nil-nil draw between two struggling first division sides on a cold and rainy Saturday afternoon.

There is a saying in Football that second place is the first place loser...

Another culture clash. What about the gallant loser? The team who come from nowhere and then lose out against all the odds? They are heroes in Britain.

Many think that because Rugby players don't use pads that they are somehow tougher but American football is THE most brutal game.

Having just watched the England - Ireland rugby union match I have to respectfully disagree. Have a look at a maul and I think you will change your mind.

now it is not uncommon for a team to finish last one season then win the superbowl the next.

That's just unnatural.

It is not uncommon for a team to lose 10 to 20 or so players in a season.

That's not uncommon in football to lose 10 players in a season and we have much smaller squads. In fact it is surprisingly to find a player who hasn't had some kind of injury during a season. The most popular being the groin injury which I am sure covers a lot more than just the groin.

By the way, thanks wtiberon for having written "American football" in the thread title. It avoided a lot of discussion caused by misunderstandigs

Yes, that was a very good move indeed.

 

[CamBot]

Thats a good question I'm not really sure...I know you have to have a minimum of 2 years of college to enter the draft but I'm not sure about Free Agents. Players are always described by which college they attended and I have never seen a player without a college so I can say with reasonable confindence that they would have to but again I can't be 100 percent.

It's VERY rare for even a college player to leave early, and it's usually at an offensive skill position. They just don't have the size and strength to compete with the big boys.

 

[wtiberon]

Originally posted by MrPresident

This happens in football (soccer) too. However usually it is only for a season or two as one of teams develops another stadium.

American Football stadiums are HUGE and very expensive so having two stadiums in the same city would not be acceptable

Don't some teams have more supporters than another? And therefore have more money?

Not really its pretty even thats how popular NFL Football is. Also Teams share revenue when they play. So for example if New York is playing Cincinnati even though most of the fans are from Cincinnati they split the revenue in half.

Another culture clash. What about the gallant loser? The team who come from nowhere and then lose out against all the odds? They are heroes in Britain.

No either your a winner or a loser...its the American way

Having just watched the England - Ireland rugby union match I have to respectfully disagree. Have a look at a maul and I think you will change your mind.

I have watched rugby my dad used to play so I'm pretty familiar with it (even though I don't understand the rules too well). I don't disagree that Ruby is brutal but it is less brutal than Football. If you ever saw American Football players stacked next to Rugby players I think you would understand....these guys are HUGE and hit very, very, hard. But I doubt we can convince each other so we'll leave it at that.

That's not uncommon in football to lose 10 players in a season and we have much smaller squads. In fact it is surprisingly to find a player who hasn't had some kind of injury during a season. The most popular being the groin injury which I am sure covers a lot more than just the groin.

Definitly alot of Football players play with one injury or another. Some can even play with broken arms (depeding on there positions). One famous player named Ronnie Lott was playing in a superbowl game. He had his finger get severly broke at the tip and the doctor told him "either I cut it off or you leave the game"...he paused and said cut it off. That's the kind of mentality these Football players have.

 

[Zamphyr]

Great Thread here..

Thats a good question I'm not really sure...I know you have to have a minimum of 2 years of college to enter the draft but I'm not sure about Free Agents. Players are always described by which college they attended and I have never seen a player without a college so I can say with reasonable confindence that they would have to but again I can't be 100 percent.

The only player I can think of in recent years is Eric Swann(DE, Cardinals) I believe he did 1 year at a Technical Community College, then played semi-pro for 2 yrs. He was in the draft in '91.

American Football stadiums are HUGE and very expensive so having two stadiums in the same city would not be acceptable

The public financing is the prohibitive factor. I live 5 minutes from the Meadowlands. It's amusing growing up in New Jersey having 2 New York teams here.

What about the gallant loser? The team who come from nowhere and then lose out against all the odds?

We call these the "Cinderella" teams, the ugly teams that come out of nowhere to have one beautiful season, only to disappear at the stroke of midnight

Don't some teams have more supporters than another? And therefore have more money?

wtiberon explained it well. With the salary cap, there is a set limit on the amount you can spend on your players. Teams with more supporters (Cowboys and Raiders) DO make more money. It is spent on training facilities or just goes into the owners pockets. Ah, the American way.

I agree that its unnatural to have a team go from worst to first in a season and IMHO the NFL has gone too far in its efforts for parity. 'Course, I'm a Cowboy fan who would have loved to see the '90's dynasty go further, but with free agency and the cap

To get OT, which no one has done yet, Cincy should trade down. If they think one of the QB's(Palmer/Leftwich) is the answer, there will be trouble in camp with Kitna and Akili Smith. Someone will have to be moved. They seem to pick offense every year and it usually backfires. Despite having a great RB, they never score much. With a new defensive-minded coach, they should probably see if they can move to the 3 or 4 spot and pick Terrell Suggs.

Personally, I hope they botch it again. Just as there are dominant teams, Cincy is a perrenial doormat. Plus, I want the Cowboys to have a shot at Suggs. Parcells would be beside himself.