American UU

[Colonel]

<cough>

I beg to disagree, friend!
There is absolutely no comparison between the United States Marine and various other first line infantry outfits. The USMC is the Standard by which all others are set, and the bar which none other can reach. Only the British Royal Marines come close. It is not simply because they receive more training than any other organization, nor that their ranks are formed from the elite of the elite. It is because each United States Marine knows that they are upholding the honor of their Country and a 229 year tradition of preserving same. Their uniform is instantly recognizable world wide as it is the one worn by the men and women chosen to defend those tiny parcels of land the US retains in every country: the US embasssy. They are the first to enter combat and engage the enemy, they are the last to leave. They are asked time and time again to perform the impossible against unthinkable odds with inadequate support in the most unreasonable conditions. And they succeed.

Before you start categorizing the United States Marine as just another generic amphibious attack unit, research some facts. There are numerous accounts of the unflinching courage and steadfast resolution exhibited by the Marine Corps. Here is one:

When the Japanese initiated the attack on Pearl Harbor on 7, December 1941, they did not neglect the tiny island of Wake which served as an outpost for Hawaii. Their plans had been for a speedy seizure of this objective; however, the Marine garrison thwarted their initial attempts. Late in December, the enemy returned with an even more powerful armada. Attack after attack was mounted against the heroic defenders. All Marine planes were shot down, casualties mounted, the situation was becoming desperate. However, communications were still maintained with Pearl Harbor. A relief expedition was mounted but the remnants of the Navy were so pitifully weak that the mission was cancelled at the last minute. Finally, Pearl Harbor queried Wake, "Is there anything that we can provide?" In one of the last messages from the doomed island came back the reply, "Send us more Japs!"

"Semper Fidelis"
<Always Faithful>

-Elgalad

I didnt mean to down play the role the US marines have played and the fact there arent to many othergroups like the, however when you talk about US power world round it is not the Marines that you will hear about you will hear that the US air power is not matched by any group, it will also show that when and wherever the US engages in battle of any kind the main group fighting are the Air Force\air unit(there are alot of navy pilots to) the last few wars the US has been involved with were conculsively air wars.

 

[LostKnight]

UU are not suppose to represent the peak of the civ. They are supposed to represent the army, what we are thinking when we think about a particular civ's army. When I think about German army, I think panzer that smash infantry. When I think England army, I think about fleet of ships, when I think Us army I think US Marines.

For mw, the best UU for USA would be an improved marine.

 

[Colonel]

Ok, i give up i have the best soultion to make everyone happy (hopefully)

Give each civ 3 UU one for air, sea, and land

For the US-Marines-Air United undecided between B-29 B-52 F-15-Super Carrier

 

[Blackbird_SR-71]

I like the idea but what about all the ancient civs that aren't around today to have an air UU. Its not like Firaxis can make up a UU for them or they could possibly use an aircraft from a modern nation that is like the ancient civs.

 

[Colonel]

Simple just give them a UU from the civ that now occupies that area of the world so for example Persia look up Iran and find a good air UU

 

[Blackbird_SR-71]

yeah you could do that

 

[Elgalad]

I do like your idea for multiple UU's Colonel. My suggestion in another post though, was to give each civ one per Age. I think it would greatly increase each civ's flavor and help define them against each other. This would unbalance Golden Age of course, but then I've never been all that fond of Golden economic Ages beginning when a civ's unique military unit wins a battle in the first place. Particularly when the civ's unit is something like an artillery piece (Korea), an overpowered scout (Spain), or a city defender (France). As for the F-15 as it currently is in Civ 3, by the time your game reaches the modern era, the outcome has already been decided anyway; Golden Age or no. Maybe a system could be incorporated to reflect a mini Golden Age (call it an Iron Age, ha!) started by UU victory, something like a Period of Conquest or Colonialism. These wouldn't last as long as the true Golden Ages, and would only give bonuses to military production (buildings and units) as the country shifts into total war mode.

-E

 

[Colonel]

The problem with the One per era is. its alot harder to give say the US a knight type unit then it is to give persia an aircraft, So you would run into the problem of UUs haveing absoultely no connection with the civ they are suppose to be

 

[Elgalad]

Some examples of different civ Unique Units by age:

England: Pictish Warrior, Longbowman, Spitfire, Harrier Jumpjet
Germany: Vandal, Doppelsoldner, Storm Trooper, Leopard Tank
America: *Ranger, Minuteman, US Marine, Nimitz Class
Rome: Legionary, Carrack, *Maiale, *Incursori
Japan: Ashigaru Spearman, Bushi/Samurai, Zero Fighter, Kongo Destroyer
China: Raider, Rider, Boxer, Silkworm Missile
Nordland: Viking, Mobile Artillery, Ski Troops, Visby Corvette
Russia: Nomad, Cossack, IL-2, Typhoon Submarine

*America's ancient UU is a hypothetical superscout with no terrain penalty. I know it doesn't really represent Lewis and Clark, but hey..
*The Italian Maiale was a two man mini-sub/torpedo that devastated Allied shipping in the Mediterranean during WW2, including the battleships HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Valiant which would have both been sunk had the harbor been deeper.
*the Italian Incursori are the Italian Navy's equivalent of the S.E.A.L. unit.

It was pretty difficult to narrow that list down in some cases, particularly in the industrial/ww 2 era and the modern era. Here's to the hope that they expand out the timeline into 6 or 8 ages instead of 4!

-Elgalad

 

[rhialto]

If we have a single UU for a civ, it shouldnt be a late modern age unit as america has now. Simply because by that stage it wont make any difference to whetehr you win or lose. the minute men may not have been americas greatest unit, dont represent americas military greatest moment, but did historically predate a golden period in us history, and they do come at a point where they can make a meanibgful difference to whetehr you win or lose.

 

[bkwrm79]

Carriers best represent the area where America truly stands out... but carriers haven't been very useful in previous Civ games, except occasionally in special circumstances (like when I was the Americans kicking Russia out of Australia in a Civ I game). A carrier UU would be ideal, if carriers can be made useful, but they probably can't.

I love the idea of giving America a better Marine unit.

My third choice would be airpower, but airpower has to be made more effective. To make up for America's UU coming so late and being airpower, maybe give the US both a better fighter and a better bomber?

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Hmm, I can think of 2 eras which might qualify as America's Golden Age, first the period of expansion into the West from 1800-1900; second, the rise of the US as a superpower due to the outcome of WW2. If you wanted a Golden Age UU for the 1st period, maybe a special Cavalry unit called Rifle Cavalry available at Mil. Tradition would be appropriate. For WW2 Golden Age UU, Sherman Tank as suggested would work, or perhaps a special Infantry, called G.I would be good, same stats as Infantry but with attack value of 8.

I think the F-15 is a bit late for a truly accurate GA inducing unit, America was well into its actual GA when the F-15 was introduced.

I would like to see UU in general revamped for GA, civs with Air, Sea or Bombardment UU are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to getting a GA, any civ with an offensive or defensive land unit has a much better chance or triggering a Golden Age. Korea in particular is crippled by this, they would be much better served with a Middle Age land unit.

 

[Lennon]

UU are not suppose to represent the peak of the civ. They are supposed to represent the army, what we are thinking when we think about a particular civ's army. When I think about German army, I think panzer that smash infantry. When I think England army, I think about fleet of ships, when I think Us army I think US Marines.

For mw, the best UU for USA would be an improved marine.

Not entirely true. I believe the UU's perhaps don't represent the peak of a civ, but they are not connected to the peak of a civ by chance, since it is designed to coincide with the GA of a civ.

 

[frekk]

I think a B-52 Bomber should be the American UU. Seems obvious.

 

[rhialto]

B52 would be nice, but as a late moern age unit, it comes at a point where it makes no difference to whwther you win or lose the game. At that point, you should barely have time to trigger your GA before the game ends.

 

[frekk]

They had B52's in Korea ... so you would get it at the very beginning of the Modern Age or so, before you had even researched a single Modern tech ... that's plenty of time for a GA, and is very representative of the real life GA of America.

Of course it wouldn't win you the game, the winner is usually already pretty clear by the time the Modern Age starts, but if you wanted a true-to-life American golden age, it would have to be in the modern era, since its only really in the postwar years that America surged ahead of the pack to become a superpower.

Also don't forget, not all GA's are equal. The Aztecs and Sumerians, for instance, get their GA's at a time when you can just about throw it away, for all its worth. Also, the UU's are not the only means of triggering a GA, and the American player can often get a GA long before it is triggered by the UU.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Hmm, what is perhaps needed is a way for the AI to get it's GA once it is fairly useful for it to do so, but still in the era in which the civ was traditionally powerful. Some new code would be needed for this, as well as making sure all UU are the type of units that will be frequently used with success by the AI.

The human player does not suffer so much from this problem, if they have a UU that comes in an earlier age, as they can hold off attacking with the UU until a GA is desired. For example, in my last game I played as the Aztecs, held off on war as much as possible in the early eras, except to conquer much needed territory, and using conventional units. I then triggered my GA in the early industrial ages by using a few Jaguar Warriors to attack and destroy an Iroquois Mounted Warrior out in the open with only 2 HP remaining. Of course, if you are playing the English, or Americans, this strategy is not going to do you much good. Hard to get naval battles and US UU comes way late.

 

[mRhapPy]

But the UU kicks off the GA, so I stand by my Sherman Tank

that is a great idea because if you think about it ww2 was the beginning of our golden age.

 

[mRhapPy]

or we could have a speacial forces troop (green beret, navy seal, etc..)

 

[Chazbagel]

I dont know if anyone has said this... but USMC (United States Marine Corps) Offense +2 Defense +2 ... cost alot more though.

USMC-Saw these in WW2 everywhere, Japan, Europe, u name it
Navy Seal-Biggest Modern ifantry threat there is
F-15-One of the best fighter planes ever.
B-52 (Flying Fortress) ... i think thats what its called-Bombed the hell out of Europe during ww2
Minuteman-Thats how we got our independance.
Sherman Tank-WW2, one of the most dominant tanks
US Paratroopers-WW2 AGAIN!