Americans

[ngin]

Ive been having this tought since the first civ i played:
why are the americans in it?..they feel so out of place between all those old civilizations.

the only reason they are in it that i can think of is that this game is made in america...and that a lot of american ppl would probably like to play with their own nationality.

 

[Harbringer]

If we put civilizations in there that are now extinct what is so wrong with putting civilizations in there that are brand new?Especially since America has had just about as much influence on the world as any of the older civilizations. Plus the reason you already stated, made by americans so they might as well throw them in there. Also seeing as how America is the products number one buyer they probably should be obligated to throw in a little red,white and blue in there.

 

[AsnoT]

hehe, just imagine the game were realistic....

in 1776, a new tribe appears, and goes on to win a space race victory by 1969 (that is, if the random seed doesn't do something nasty during the cuban missile crisis)

 

[EdCase]

My 2 cents...because they are one of, if not THE, movers and shakers of the modern world. So in a hypothetical game based loosely on human history its probably a good idea to include the "noteworthy" whether ancient or modern.

(Incidentally..though my location is Florida,I am British(moved here age 30),English by self definition. Stated to avoid accusations of bias)

 

[Harbringer]

Is he not also biased for one side or another?So go ahead I say, and let your Biasity control your toungue.

 

[EdCase]

Well I did neglect to mention my wife was born in New York and well...would not get on her bad side

 

[dh_epic]

There are two things that qualify a civilization in the game. One is being distinct from another civilization, and two is making a major contribution to world history, or the current landscape.

America's character is different from the British Colony it started as. One only has to look at the vast tapestry of immigrants that are responsible for America's culture, let alone the influence of emancipated slaves.

As for telling world history, if America were to crumble tomorrow, you would still have to talk about the past 300 years in terms of America's contributions. Those 300 years represent nearly 50% of the turns in the game, too. You'd have to mention their contributions to both world wars, the spread of American culture around the world, their economic dominance, and their influence over the entire world's political affairs.

Compare that to the mongolian empire, who really only lasted a hundred years, before the middle ages. Essentially 20 turns of game time.

On the whole, I can't take issue with too many new civs being added to the game. I only take issue with adding one civ when another civ deserves a higher priority. Ideally, there should be like 40 civilizations.

 

[Jonathan]

This subject has already been argued to death in this forum.

I think the answer is that different people view the game in different ways. I view it as a contest between ancient civs trying to survive to modern times, so in my view the Americans don't belong in the game, and neither do various other civs (such as the English, the Spanish, the Aztecs) that weren't around in ancient times.

However, other people don't see it this way, and Firaxis is trying to cater for everyone.

If you don't want any particular civ in the game, I believe you can easily exclude it from your own solo games. I don't know for sure because I'm in Spain and I haven't received my copy of the game yet...

 

[CrazyMrLeo]

One could argue this to death, but in the end Firaxis takes the unhistorical approach and puts in civilizations that weren't around in 4000 BC. That's just an element of the civ series that you either have to accept or mod out.

 

[Ace4nyC]

This subject has already been argued to death in this forum.

I think the answer is that different people view the game in different ways. I view it as a contest between ancient civs trying to survive to modern times, so in my view the Americans don't belong in the game, and neither do various other civs (such as the English, the Spanish, the Aztecs) that weren't around in ancient times.

However, other people don't see it this way, and Firaxis is trying to cater for everyone.

If you don't want any particular civ in the game, I believe you can easily exclude it from your own solo games. I don't know for sure because I'm in Spain and I haven't received my copy of the game yet...

not true rome colonzied british isles in the early years of AD so english have the same rights to be in the game as any other as for americans, its simple in polish version of civ there would be poland

 

[Shylock]

puts in civilizations that weren't around in 4000 BC.

The Romans and IIRC the Greek1 were a bunch of roving tribes back then too.

 

[Mercade]

Now that we have so much python knowledge on the forum, it shouldn't be too hard to make a small script that parses frequently created threads and automagically links to at least three other incarnations of the thread. The following topics come to mind:

• Why are the Americans in the game? They are so young.
• Why is my favourite nation not in the game?
• Why is this leader in the game?
• Why is my favourite leader not in the game?

 

[theim]

So what if Americans aren't very old? In a game where my Bhuddist Theocracy of the Roman Empire is stockpiling ICBMs to counter the threat of the mighty Malinese, exact history is not necessary. The fun of Civ is creating your own alternate history.

 

[zeeter]

Now that we have so much python knowledge on the forum, it shouldn't be too hard to make a small script that parses frequently created threads and automagically links to at least three other incarnations of the thread. The following topics come to mind:

• Why are the Americans in the game? They are so young.
• Why is my favourite nation not in the game?
• Why is this leader in the game?
• Why is my favourite leader not in the game?

A lot of us have never seen these threads. If you don't want to see them, then don't post to them and perpetuate them.
Plus, these topics are always good debates.

 

[zeeter]

There's three good reasons why Americans should be in the game.
1. The people to whom the game is marketed most heavily are Americans. So despite any arguments as to their virtue with culture, you're going to see the Americans in there. Besides, who can argue that as the world's only superpower both economically and militarily the Americans don't deserve consideration as the greatest civilization of this age?
2. Since the game is marketed to Americans, most NEW players in America are going to want to play as America. I know that with Civ1 and 2 I generally always played as the Americans because it didn't matter, and I got used to the American's color. Despite the leader traits, there is something to familiarity, especially to someone new to the game.
3. Players in other nations of the world will take special satisfaction in anihilating the Americans in the game. Or keeping them as their virtual slaves.

 

[Jonathan]

not true rome colonzied british isles in the early years of AD so english have the same rights to be in the game as any other

Before and during the Roman occupation, Britain was inhabited by the Ancient Britons. After the Romans left, the Angles moved in and the Ancient Britons were pushed out. The Angles became the English. Thus, the English date from the 5th century AD -- quite old, but whether you can call them ancient or not is a matter of definition.

My own arbitrary definition of "ancient" for this purpose is "before Christ". You're welcome to use a different definition.

as for americans, its simple in polish version of civ there would be poland

Obviously true.

 

[Jonathan]

One could argue this to death, but in the end Firaxis takes the unhistorical approach and puts in civilizations that weren't around in 4000 BC.

Unfortunately it's not possible to be literal about this. Only the Sumerians seem to be have been civilized in 4000 BC -- and they're not represented in the game!

 

[Tarascan_King]

Here we go again!!!

 

[The Apple]

Can't we just make a sticky about this already?

 

[mossmonster]

Ask yourself, how many of the included 18 civs existed in 4000 b.c.? The game is about an alternate reality you can create.