An atheist's choice

[ChiefSparkY]

Hello!
This post is a little tongue-in-cheek so don't get too uptight or start a big debate about religion - m'kay? I think religion is a fine thing to add to Civ IV, I have no problem with it. But as an atheist, I'd like to be able to have the choice for my state to encourage atheism - it's not a religion, it's the absence of religion and that should have associated benefits in-game. I think that's fair. Okay, so later in the game we can choose the Free Religion civic which is fine too but anyway, my question to fellow atheists: is there a "religion" you lean towards when playing Civ IV? Perhaps the more philosophical ones? Just curious!

 

[NintendoTogepi]

I'd imagine Confucianism, as it in it's purest form does not have a God or gods. (although in actual practice it is often given a God or gods from other East Asian religions)

Try running Theocracy with no state religion

But I do think there should be an atheism option.

It would be in the religious choice area after say, Scientific Method, and once you selected it the religious civic column in the civics era would gray out.

Bonus for being Atheist would be something like 25% science, 25% productivity, University gives 2+ hammers, removes all religions from your cities, and the ability to build missionaries (it'd be come back if you switched back to a religion though) and 3+ relations with other Atheist leaders. An automatic 3- relations or -4 relations with leaders running a religion.

It might seem a bit overpowered, but keep in mind they're losing out on the benefit of running any religious civics and they're getting bad relations with most leaders. They'd also have a really hard time doing a culture victory. (the religious buildings would lose their effect as well, although they would still be in the city)

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Soviet Union had atheism as the state religion.

 

[Balderstrom]

I'm not quite an aetheist as such - and I do like the enhancement cultural borders and religion have brought to the game. Aside from some balance issues towards late game and taking over longstanding cities its not bad.
My only gripe is so much of the cultural basis requires you to emphasize religion. There should be other artsyfartsy and scientific options that would provide similiar cultural advancements that religion fills.

 

[ChiefSparkY]

Soviet Union had atheism as the state religion.

Atheism is not a religion. It's the absence of religion (or theism, hence a-theism). Religion of any kind was greatly discouraged in communist Soviet Union but to say atheism was the 'state religion' just isn't true

 

[ChiefSparkY]

My only gripe is so much of the cultural basis requires you to emphasize religion. There should be other artsyfartsy and scientific options that would provide similiar cultural advancements that religion fills.

Precisely - I've no problem with religion being included in Civ because it really has had such a big impact on the world (for better or worse is an entirely different debate). But it seems kind of difficult to play the game without emphasising some sort of religious policy - I think there should be a choice as you said. But in the absence of that, I'm curious as to what people choose. Of course, it's quite likely that most atheists just don't care and choose whatever works - Civ is just a game. [Did I just say that?!]

 

[Oatse]

I think you're letting your lack of belief run your life a little to much if you seriously have to ask stuff like this, but then again I'm just an agnostic so there could be a really good reason for it that I'm not aware of.

 

[ramatheson]

As an atheist I don't have a preference for a certain mythology. I do find myself going for free religion though. I do wish there was a no religion option with associated benefits.

 

[ChiefSparkY]

I think you're letting your lack of belief run your life a little to much if you seriously have to ask stuff like this, but then again I'm just an agnostic so there could be a really good reason for it that I'm not aware of.

Did you read my original post? It's not an overly serious question, my freedom from religion is an awesome thing, I was just curious about how other atheists play the game, that's all.

 

[Oatse]

I'm so used to that "Hurr, hurr, Xtians and Mooslems" stuff that it gave a false positive.

 

[amazingorange]

I dont really let my beliefs in real life affect my decision of a state religion in a game, I just pick whichever one has the best benefit, since they are all the same.

But atheism should be a choice as a state religion, probably promoting science over culture. I dont know, just as long as its balanced.

 

[eewallace]

As an athest with an aesthetic appreciation for religion (how's that for alliteration) I have to say Taoism is my favorite. Unfortunately, it comes along too late in the game to be of much use. As a practical matter, I generally like confucianism for the courthouses. Also, I am quite cynically appreciative of the money-making aspect of religion in BTS--with a state religion I've founded, plus a shrine, the AP, and the Spiral Minaret, I can pretty much go the whole game on a religion-based economy.

 

[Balderstrom]

@eewallace : Taoism is my preferred, and I can get it most times, by using the "Choose Religion" option, so long as the AI's haven't it snagged it within the first 2 or 3 founders.

 

[Copywriter]

Well, I'm not an atheist in RL. In the game, I don't lean toward anything. It's all about what's best for my game at the time.

In my first complete game, I founded Confucianism and spread it all over the place.

 

[Joshua368]

I just go with whichever I reach before the AIs.

 

[The Frisian]

I'm an atheist and I would have appreciated an atheistic civic function. The free religion civic actually encourages you to spread more religion around as every religion gives a happiness bonus to a city. If you hold off scientific method (which obsoletes monasteries) you can spam missionaries to increase your cities' happiness. Especially effective in BtS if you build Shwedagon Paya that unlocks every religious civic early on.

This doesn't sound anything like how I would rule my atheistic empire. I like the idea that was mentioned by NintendoTogepi about the religious civic column graying out. There should be some way to get back to a religious state, but it would require anarchy for switching to a religion and more anarchy for adopting a specific religious civic. (The same as adopting a state religion -anarchy- and then changing civics to make use of that religion -more anarchy- which you also get in the early stages of the game.) Perhaps this anarchy should ALSO apply to spiritual leaders - as a sort of penalty for choosing atheism (I mean an atheistic Isabella? That should be rare).
Furthermore, that Christ Redeemer statue (BtS) should lose its function if you're running Atheism as it would conflict with the anarchy/switch state religion things I just mentioned.

I think the scientific bonuses mentioned in previous posts makes sense. Personally, I would turn all religious buildings into libraries, but that would probably be too powerful to implement in Civ for game play reasons.

When I play Civ IV (and I've finally got BtS) I exploit the religious civics to their fullest. I wouldn't want to live in the empires I create in Civ, but I'm getting high scores by slaughtering the heathens with my theocratic armies. I don't think there was ever a game were I said "Yes, this is my utopia!". It's more of a "Yes, this genocide has brought me 10% closer to a conquest victory. It appears my pantheon of gods/single god/dead Eastern philosopher is more powerful that yours, mwhuhahahaha."

 

[mystikmind2005]

You cannot escape religion in the older eras no matter what.

There are no nations i know of in history that were not dramatically touched by religion. Even communist Russia was still a very religious country despite the best efforts of its leaders. the only thing that can reduce the significance of religion is western wealth and entertainment - Although where that trend will lead is yet to be seen.

 

[DarkFyre99]

As an atheist and a Buddhist, I'd have to say that there is a world of difference between non-theism and being non-religious. There are non-theistic religions after all, which don't focus upon gods, but a wise man, an approach to existence, or a belief about the nature of reality. Confucionism, Buddhism, and Taoism are at their very heart agnostic.

The funny thing is that some atheists do approach their atheism more like a religion than the lack of anything. I have been told I'm not a real atheist because I am a Buddhist, I believe in rebirth, and I don't go to a psychologist for counseling, but a monk. I have been told that non-theistic new-agers aren't real atheists, because they believe in the power of crystals, astrology, and channeling spirits. I have been told that non-theistic believers in alien visitation or abduction aren't real atheists, because they believe in alien visitation or abduction. They call themselves Atheists and Skeptics, but what they really are Metaphysical Materialists.

Most of what I see being requested as an "atheist civic" is what I would call theocracy, but rather than oppressing all non-believers, all believers are oppressed. It's the same refrain, though: "Believe as I do, or you'll be sorry." I also don't see why an "atheist civic," would give bonuses to science. Science depends upon the open exchange of ideas, and the "atheist civic" is anything but.

One thing I do miss in regards to religion in CIV is the ability to suppress religions. It seems to me that under Theocracy, we should be able to remove non-state religions from our cities... at the cost of unhappy faces of course, similar to the effects of drafting or slavery. Perhaps to model the effects of an a-religious state, religious civics plus no state religion would only have an effect if a city had no religion at all.

 

[Tibur753]

My suggestion is that you mod Atheism in as a religion that is founded by the first to scientific method. (I have no idea how to do this, but someone else probably does)

 

[foobarred]

I agree with DarkFrye. In fact, I will go further and say that there has been no successful Atheist civilizations in the history of the world. Even though many Communist societies officially are Atheist, either their citizens practice in secret, or they indoctrinate them in Marxism, which, in my opinion, has many of the same attributes as religion.

A +25% science boost for Atheism does not hold up to reality. Religion brought us Art, astronomy, mathematics... all in the name of furthering our understanding of God. Eastern religions & philosophies have done much to advance the same.

I actually think that State Property run with Theology with No State Religion is the equivalent of modern day Communist Atheism. Of course, you are deprived of the bonuses of having a state religion, but I think that mirrors reality pretty well.