Same here, more interesting choices are almost always good.Nice. I look forward to actually having options when capturing cities, rather than totally destroy or completely occupy.
An option to SACK a city instead of raze or capture.
- Thread starter wilson6907
- Start date
Are you adding new xml tag to civics like. <bCanEnslaveCity>? That way the feature isn't just limited to slavery civic... in case modmodders want to use it in some other civics as well.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Are you adding new xml tag to civics like. <bCanEnslaveCity>? That way the feature isn't just limited to slavery civic... in case modmodders want to use it in some other civics as well.
Yeah, I added bAllowSlaves. Also added bSlave to Specialist Slave too.
Mm, by the time the UN is built, no one uses slavery anymore. Anyway, sacking and enslaving cities all have new diplomatic effects, so it will tick off the other civilizations.
Slammer64
Warlord
And as for repeated sackings, how about a decreasing gold count to help represent the damage done to city infrastructure, populace morale, etc. by the repeated sackings? Another thing, how about only allowing mercs to sack a city, as that was a historical way to reward troops and/or keep them loyal to you?
Afforess
The White Wizard
I figured you guys would appreciate a detailed breakdown of how these two new options work.
Sacking a City:
If the cities population is larger than 4 (adjustable in the GlobalAltDefines), and has less than 50% of your culture, you can sack the city. Sacking the city ticks off the original owner, and if it is a holy city, it angers everyone with that religion. Sacking a city yield 1/2 the gold you would have received from razing it, and kills between 1/4 and 3/4 of the cities population. Sacking a city still makes you the owner, you keep it afterwards.*
Enslaving a City:
If a cities population is larger than 5 (adjustable), and you using the slavery civic, you can enslave the city. Enslaving the cities removes all of the foreign culture from the city, and removes the foreign population. (So if you had 20% culture, 20% of the population would survive. A minimum of 1 population will always survive). For each time you enslave a city, all of your cities receive a free slave specialist. Any nation who had culture in that city will be angry at your for enslaving their citizens, proportional to the amount of citizens enslaved. Enslaving cities is very useful, very powerful; but pretty much destroys the city and ticks off everyone. Oh, and the city will become rebellious, proportional to the enslaved population. Switching out of slavery will lose you your free slaves, switching back, you will regain them. You can only have slaves in the slavery civic now.
*Okay, I know this is going to be controversial, but giving it back to the previous owner is simply too exploitable. If I give them the city back, it's just a loophole to be exploited, no matter how many free defenders I give. I also expect I could never get the AI to handle Sacking this way either.
One last thing; does anyone have a good name for the buttons? Currently, they just read "Enslave the City" and "Sack the City", but they look boring compared to "Burn Baby Burn!!!".
Sacking a City:
If the cities population is larger than 4 (adjustable in the GlobalAltDefines), and has less than 50% of your culture, you can sack the city. Sacking the city ticks off the original owner, and if it is a holy city, it angers everyone with that religion. Sacking a city yield 1/2 the gold you would have received from razing it, and kills between 1/4 and 3/4 of the cities population. Sacking a city still makes you the owner, you keep it afterwards.*
Enslaving a City:
If a cities population is larger than 5 (adjustable), and you using the slavery civic, you can enslave the city. Enslaving the cities removes all of the foreign culture from the city, and removes the foreign population. (So if you had 20% culture, 20% of the population would survive. A minimum of 1 population will always survive). For each time you enslave a city, all of your cities receive a free slave specialist. Any nation who had culture in that city will be angry at your for enslaving their citizens, proportional to the amount of citizens enslaved. Enslaving cities is very useful, very powerful; but pretty much destroys the city and ticks off everyone. Oh, and the city will become rebellious, proportional to the enslaved population. Switching out of slavery will lose you your free slaves, switching back, you will regain them. You can only have slaves in the slavery civic now.
*Okay, I know this is going to be controversial, but giving it back to the previous owner is simply too exploitable. If I give them the city back, it's just a loophole to be exploited, no matter how many free defenders I give. I also expect I could never get the AI to handle Sacking this way either.
One last thing; does anyone have a good name for the buttons? Currently, they just read "Enslave the City" and "Sack the City", but they look boring compared to "Burn Baby Burn!!!".
Supercheese
Zeppelin Commander
One last thing; does anyone have a good name for the buttons? Currently, they just read "Enslave the City" and "Sack the City", but they look boring compared to "Burn Baby Burn!!!".
Well, "Enslave the city's denizens!" and "Let your soldiers plunder the city!" sound good to me. But those are just my suggestions.
Afforess
The White Wizard
If you need fast money, or have rebellion issues. Small cities are easier to hold against rebels, and capturing a large city may take 8-10 turns before they begin working again. Better than Razing it, especially if its on a strategic site.
I should also mention, I scaled both Razing and Sacking gold to inflation; which means late game plunder should be in realistic amounts.
This sounds really cool system. One minor suggestion for the cities that gain slaves: shouldn't these cities' culture amounts also change accordingly - the slaves bring their own culture to this city so if you enslave cities from many different nations, your cities culture should show this because your citizens are now living in very mixed culture.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Good point. How about the culture is made up of the cultures removed from the old city, and it is proportional to the population; so the slave specialist in a small city will change the culture considerable, but make barely a dent in larger ones. Great thinking!
little_cyclone
Loyal Civ4 & C2C mod player
Maybe I'm misunderstanding... If I need the money or have rebellion issues, why would I want another city, and therefore another drain on my economy/stability? Why wouldn't I just raze it and get the full gold amount, and not have to worry about garrisoning/maintaining the new city? Also, if I did want another city, why would I sack it and reduce pop/buildings instead of capturing it hopefully relatively intact?
The enslave options looks great tho. I personally haven't found a use for that civic yet, but with all these options that excuse is rapidly fading
Overall, I think the idea is very interesting, but I think myself and others were lookng more along the lines of raiding, wherein you destroy defenders, take some treasure, and destroy some buildings (and maybe gain more treasure)
Afforess
The White Wizard
I know, I know. Initially, that is what I was going to do. The problem is this:
By the time you see the popup, you have already captured the city. The options either let you look at the city, keep it (do nothing) or raze it (Surprisingly, razing is coded so you can only raze cities you already own; counter-intuitive, but the way Firaxis designed it). So I can only make post-capture decisions.
If you have any ideas on how to improve sacking; let me know.
little_cyclone
Loyal Civ4 & C2C mod player
Hmmm.. Well thats a bit of a pickle, isn't it? I know in the past I've liberated cities back to their initial owners after hostilities have ceased. Can it be programmed to "liberate" cities back to a native civ while hostilities are still ongoing?
My thinking being, would it be possible to program a Raid option, where in you've technically speaking captured the city, but immediately 1) reduce the population a certain amount 2) plunder gold 3)sell a certain percentage of buildings present [thereby generating more gold] & 3)liberating the city back to its original owners.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Yes it is. But liberation, IIRC, requires two things:
- Peacetime
- The other player to have the highest amount of culture in that city
Both clash with the concept of raiding...
little_cyclone
Loyal Civ4 & C2C mod player
Thats what I thought.. Never hurt to ask tho
Back to the proverbial drawing board then 
szemek77
Prince
I believe there is one more option (sometimes): return back to original owner.
Anyway, this obstacle spoil the whole idea of sacking a city. Why would you sack your own city then? At this moment, either you keep it (means you need it, so why make it weaker), or you raze it (bad placement, high distance to you empire, or any other reason).
Is it possible to make the city, you choose to sack, barbarian? I mean, you destroy the defenders, plunder the city, then your troops leave and it will wallow in chaos. The original owner would need to send troops to restore order. Would it make any sense, BTW?
Or turn it to autonomic city state (ie. form new colony)? Though that's already possible if the city is on another continent...
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