Oh interesting and good to know - I got one last time I played Maya as my first great person to enhance my religion and it seemed to only increase the faith needed for the next Great Prophet, but admittedly I wasn't paying a lot of attention to it at the time.
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Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
An Unofficial Science Competition -- paying homage to Mesix
- Thread starter Hammer Rabbi
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Oh interesting and good to know - I got one last time I played Maya as my first great person to enhance my religion and it seemed to only increase the faith needed for the next Great Prophet, but admittedly I wasn't paying a lot of attention to it at the time.
I think I will give this a try though I have never played Babylon or Korea so those might be shaky. I guess I will start with Maya. Is it okay to play it through once to figure out map layout and other civs since the idea is to compare the 3 civs and it seems like it would mean that the first play through as Maya would be way worse than the later play throughs with knowledge of the map?
I want to make sure my semi favorite civ stands a fair chance against those silly Babylonians and Koreans!
I want to make sure my semi favorite civ stands a fair chance against those silly Babylonians and Koreans!
since map knowledge is guaranteed its okay to play thru as many times as you want. if you might give it a go with all 3, it would be necessary to ensure more accurate results anyway.
DGDobrev
Warlord
If you kill an entire civilization before they meet some other players you don't suffer from these penalties. Under 60 turns you have time to not let Denmark encounter too much civs. If you have a possibility to kill his scout(he will appear 2 turns north of our capital somewhere) that should be even better
I was done with Denmark on T50 (4 bowmen + 1 warrior is enough) - Harald even said he makes me a honorable Jarl or something - and when the denouncements starting coming one after the other. First, Caesar, followed by Hiawatha, then Wu Zetian, then Boudicca and finally Askia.
Dunno what I did wrong. I was also doing my best to antagonize him even from the start - demanding stuff, settling close to him, etc. He never DOW'ed me. I guess he met more civs than I thought. Have to try again then.
iggymnrr
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No. I've been on an "no RA" kick lately. Also, with Babs, using ye olde every city should produce a GS strategy. (GP counter on next city to produce doesn't have to start from scratch.) Getting to 6 cities by turn 60 is doable but FoY makes it easy. Couldn't believe map had it.
me either. it was naturally spawned on the original map and i didnt have the heart to get rid of it. its so rare to actually play with it that i left it in.
Any map is legit for this kind of competition. Each competitors can write their own conclusions. It's about civs, not the map itself. Excepted maybe with some faith Nt. wonders start where Mayans are a bit nerfed.
First time i play with FoY on a G&K map
Agent Cooper
Lynch's Creation
Thx, it didn't though. So I caved in and bought the last DLC and now the saves are available to play
I'm trying Babylon first, Maya next and Korea last. I've never played Korea before, so I don't expect much from that game - maybe I should do a Korea trial game first, to 'get' their UA mechanics etc...
OK - since this is Emperor, I figured it's completely viable to research archery before pottery and bowmen-rush the neighbour AI(s) as I usually do on Immortal landmaps as well. I took Rome with 4 bows and 1 warrior, then a couple of barb camps and then Copenhagen. Denmark walled up in Aarhus on a hill and I couldn't put a dent into it, so I let him live, as long as he expanded towards the north.
The capitol has gone wonder crazy, to the effect that it lacks a couple of basic buildings and the University got delayed. My exploration of the map is also way behind. But it has bagged me The GL, Stonehenge, The Oracle and The HG, combined with the Pantheon that grants a 15% bonus towards ancient/classical wonders and a full Tradition tree (another 15%). I lost out on Petra and Chichen Itza. Perhaps my 'luck' is also grounded in the new added wonders, Mausoleum, Zeus, ToA - it seems the AI is more hellbent on getting those instead of the usual suspects, giving me a break.
I've opted to go wide early instead of tall. I've bought all the settlers so far. I'll be settling 2-3 more cities in the middle and on the peninsula to the east and annex Copenhagen when happiness allows it. Notre Dame is next in the capitol. Research rate and culture/sp's are going to suffer in the next phase, where growth, production and happiness is key. I hope it pays off big time down the road. I'll be saving all future GSs for bulbing late era techs.
Religion wise, I've gone with papal and food bonus in the capitol. I'm protecting the nearby CSs and I'll spread my religion to them over and over to get in the friendzone with as little gold investment as possible. At some time, I'll be saving up gold so I can buy science/production buildings in the 'weaker' cities.
Spoiler :
Glad you joined us, Agent Cooper! sorry it provoked an unwanted purchase, though. interesting screencap too. i'd leave aarhus anyway just for the warmonger penalty if you wiped him out.
iggymnrr
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I tried out the Mayans and have a funny story. I was experimenting with 2 and 3 city tries mainly to keep culture low so as to see what the faith and culture CSes would do with patronage. Lo and behold Ragnar, that Viking guy, plants a coastal city midway between me and him. Okay, I was trying to be mainly peaceful but I puppet it so as to have a port city for the admiral. After the war he sends a spear/settler pair past the FoY, past 1 CS then another, past the Incas, Iroquois and Rome. Finally he plunks down a city on the other side of me, midway between me and Tyre.
DGDobrev
Warlord
Whoa. That was some trip....
I'm gonna try the Mayans these days, probably trying to REX and expand in the direction of the fountain of youth. Hopefully this will get Harald angry enough to dow me and let me take his capital.
I'm gonna try the Mayans these days, probably trying to REX and expand in the direction of the fountain of youth. Hopefully this will get Harald angry enough to dow me and let me take his capital.
Agent Cooper
Lynch's Creation
Oh, nevermind - Polynesia was sorta cheap anyway. I just really wanna try 3 different civs on the same map to measure them up against each other. In that regard, I've decided to start the other 2 games just like this one - rush Rome and Denmark with ranged units. With Mayas early UU that shouldn't be a problem. Korea and basic archers though - I might need an extra archer
Anyway - at turn 200 now, things are starting to shape up. 8 cities (I know 6 is ideal for this VC, but the map and early rushing two AI civs, invited to expand more), 6 factories, public schools almost done. 2SPs into Order to get the 25% beaker boost and I only lack the two rightside SPs in Rat now. The timing looks OK, but we'll see.
2 RAs in place, Babylon will complete the Louvre when the Lab is finished and with Taj being finished soon in Nippur, so hopefully I'll be in a constant GA when it all ends. 6 GS and 1 GE, at least 2 GS will join the party. I might have to throw some gold at a religious CS to secure a faith GS - I need 1000 fp. I have 4 allied/2 friendly city states along my borders, full of CS units, so I don't have to upgrade my own army unless someone DOWs me.
Spoiler :
Tabarnaks game (especially the midgame) was very impressive. No way I can play at that skill level. Well done, sir
This looks like a very interesting challenge:- count me in! I need to improve my G&K science performance and this seems to be the ideal way to do it. I am running the 3 games as 50-turn sessions in parallel, trying to keep them as similar as possible. The idea is to execute a 4-city Tradition start with GL and Oracle by turn 100 (preferably with NC and Petra close to completion), beelining for Education with a sideline to Construction if the AI gets aggressive. The results so far, given in the order Babylon/Maya/Korea:-
Turn 50:- Babylon a clear Science leader (22/15/13 beakers) due to settled GS from Writing. Otherwise all very similar (2 cities, 6/5/5 pop). Each popped a Technology from huts, Babylon also got an extra pop from hut. Capitals settled on hill 1W of start (river + mountain) and city 2 N on desert river hill adjacent to mountain (hoping to be Petra city).
Turn 100:- Babylon stretching the Science lead (73/47/30 beakers) with 2 settled GS and a bought University (Education turn 99:- Maya are 7 turns from Education and Korea a distant 28 turns away). I managed the GL/Oracle builds in all 3 cases. I used a different Tech strategy for Maya compared to the others, beelining Theology (for long-count UA) rather than Civil Service (which requires earlier Currency and thus a better chance of grabbing Petra). Babylon and Maya have 4 cities (19 pop each) with the 4th Korean settler 2 turns from designated city spot (Korea 16 pop). In all cases City 3 is on the hill adjacent mountain to E, covering dye, citrus and stone; city 4 is on E coast hill for pearls and 3 fish (a coastal city being important for comparative purposes). Lots of barbs in all games keeping armies on their toes, but also providing a couple of free workers. Each civ has been attacked by either Rome or Denmark. Babylon had the easiest time, bowman offer very strong defence (didn’t need to tech for CB) and I nabbed a speedy and highly favourable peace deal. In Mayan game, Rome dropped a city close to my N city (forcing me to buy silk and silver tiles), then DoW which I pushed back and am moving to capture and raze his border city. In Korea game, Denmark dropped a city NE of Seoul (grabbing the river wheat) and attacked with a strong force:- I pushed it back but grabbed a strong peace deal rather than attack because I needed forces to clear barbs from elsewhere (also they only had one city). Each Civ has founded a religion with similar beliefs (desert faith or gold/silver faith for Babylon when former unavailable). The Maya have already enhanced their religion (GP from second long count, after a GS):- I am hoping to adopt tithe, pagodas, cathedrals/mosques and 33/66% spread if available for all games. Completed Tradition in turns 72/82/81:- going Commerce before Rationalism opens.
To keep a level playing-field, I do not propose to attack AI or puppet any cities (although I may need to revisit this point later!). So far so good for Babylon:- the Korean advantage should click in later, but they are less effective in the critical early turns. Babylon turn 100 is attached for information (the captured settler I assume is from Denmark:- it isn't mine!).
Ooops:- Denmark not Norway!!
Turn 50:- Babylon a clear Science leader (22/15/13 beakers) due to settled GS from Writing. Otherwise all very similar (2 cities, 6/5/5 pop). Each popped a Technology from huts, Babylon also got an extra pop from hut. Capitals settled on hill 1W of start (river + mountain) and city 2 N on desert river hill adjacent to mountain (hoping to be Petra city).
Turn 100:- Babylon stretching the Science lead (73/47/30 beakers) with 2 settled GS and a bought University (Education turn 99:- Maya are 7 turns from Education and Korea a distant 28 turns away). I managed the GL/Oracle builds in all 3 cases. I used a different Tech strategy for Maya compared to the others, beelining Theology (for long-count UA) rather than Civil Service (which requires earlier Currency and thus a better chance of grabbing Petra). Babylon and Maya have 4 cities (19 pop each) with the 4th Korean settler 2 turns from designated city spot (Korea 16 pop). In all cases City 3 is on the hill adjacent mountain to E, covering dye, citrus and stone; city 4 is on E coast hill for pearls and 3 fish (a coastal city being important for comparative purposes). Lots of barbs in all games keeping armies on their toes, but also providing a couple of free workers. Each civ has been attacked by either Rome or Denmark. Babylon had the easiest time, bowman offer very strong defence (didn’t need to tech for CB) and I nabbed a speedy and highly favourable peace deal. In Mayan game, Rome dropped a city close to my N city (forcing me to buy silk and silver tiles), then DoW which I pushed back and am moving to capture and raze his border city. In Korea game, Denmark dropped a city NE of Seoul (grabbing the river wheat) and attacked with a strong force:- I pushed it back but grabbed a strong peace deal rather than attack because I needed forces to clear barbs from elsewhere (also they only had one city). Each Civ has founded a religion with similar beliefs (desert faith or gold/silver faith for Babylon when former unavailable). The Maya have already enhanced their religion (GP from second long count, after a GS):- I am hoping to adopt tithe, pagodas, cathedrals/mosques and 33/66% spread if available for all games. Completed Tradition in turns 72/82/81:- going Commerce before Rationalism opens.
To keep a level playing-field, I do not propose to attack AI or puppet any cities (although I may need to revisit this point later!). So far so good for Babylon:- the Korean advantage should click in later, but they are less effective in the critical early turns. Babylon turn 100 is attached for information (the captured settler I assume is from Denmark:- it isn't mine!).
Ooops:- Denmark not Norway!!
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iggymnrr
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I might have to do more with the Maya. I had some decent success countering the long count with the counter intuitive 2 or 3 city start. The ability to actually use tradition/patronage was pretty good. If only I could decide which 2 or 3 locations for cities. Perhaps a 4-city liberty/patronage might work too. I guess I like to pioneer different ideas.
iggymnrr
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Playing with 4 cities as the Maya seems to do rather well with liberty/patronage/rationalism. AIs don't explore much at the start so focusing on finding every quickly can be very good. Scouts/atlatists are cheap buys/whacks. 2nd city should be the mega-lux site where a person should buy a worker and whack a unit right away. Sell lux early and frequently. Momentary unhappiness should not deter exploration. Scholasticism isn't too bad and can easily be worth more than the rationalism opener. All CSes will become friendly and a person can probably finish liberty, most of patronage and rationalism. Policies fly by. Getting 4 cities and GL->theology by turn 55-60 is doable but GL can go pre-turn 40. (I don't like the Maya too much because the GL is so bad.)
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
@Iggy Whack = buy?
maybe whack-a-unit is an atlatlist? still trying to figure it out too.
DGDobrev
Warlord
I gotta say I have been underestimating the Mayans. With a REX to 4 cities they can perform really well, the Atlatlist doesn't need a tech and is cheaper than the Warrior. With groups of 2 you can clean out any encampment and get some much needed cs bonus. The UB is awesome, just needs time to shine. Sadly, the different GP's kinda spoil the picture, but I managed to get Architecture and burn a GE for PT on T155, which is a very decent achievement for Emperor. And no RA's either... everyone hates me for slapping Harald sideways...
I may try a new one with going full liberty this time for a quick second GS. With 4-5 connected cities, messenger of the gods, and 2 planted GS things will surely look great. Even without faster GS spawn like Babylon, by PT you can have 4 planted like this - Cycle, Liberty, Pisa and PT.
I may try a new one with going full liberty this time for a quick second GS. With 4-5 connected cities, messenger of the gods, and 2 planted GS things will surely look great. Even without faster GS spawn like Babylon, by PT you can have 4 planted like this - Cycle, Liberty, Pisa and PT.
What a nice challange! Quite a bit of work though. Here are my results after 3 runs:
1.Maya - 246 turns
2.Korea - 258 turns
3.Babylon - 281 turns
Propably not what you'd expect... Well, I am new player, still learning a lot.
I played Korea on my first run: was very late into Renaissance, when I build a way to large army to go after Harald, who was founding cities like crazy. Not caring about culture and having annected some of Denmarks cities, I didnt manage to get to the rationalism finisher. RAs were a huge disappointment, too...
So I thought I could do a lot better as the Babylonians in a OCC. I settled 6 turns nw from the starting spot in a quite nice location for petra next to a mountain and a river. My plan was to be extremly nice to everybody and to let them steal all the technology, so RA's dont get too expensive
Well, Cesar and Harald still thought, they had to go after me - now with better units (Harals even managad to build an airforce by 1800), Wu didnt want to be friends and Askia was a complete failure (I have no idea what he did. I dont think he was involved in much fighting, but he was at negatve gpt all the time, and didnt manage to found his second city before t250 or so, when Wu finally took him out of his misery ... was it barbarians that hindered him so much?)
So I was left with 3 more or less cooperative AIs. All in all it went better RA-wise, but by far not what I had hoped for. Got a ton of GSs, 3 alone from religion (desert folklore and faith per wonder), but in the end, I still had to sit and wait for some of the last techs. (Btw, how is calculated how many beakers you get per GS? Does it depend on the cost of the open techs, the era, your bpt...)
Still, it was the most fun game of the three. Babylon grew very nicely and I loved, how Cesar once asked for an unconditional surrender in the same turn he lost his capital to Hiawatha, witch he actually managed to take back later...
With the Maya I did what some had suggested in this thread and took out Harald early with a couple of atlantists. The once every 60 turns crazy all-in attacks from cesar aside the game went peacefully for me.
I chose an engineer first from the long count to build Petra in my second city - maybe a mistake... And I managed to run into serious happiness problems with only four cities and a puppeted Kopenhagen - even when having the fountain of youth in my borders. I think, I should have expanded faster, when I fianally resarched construction and everybody was content again.
Got some expensive RAs with Pachacuti and sometimes Askia and Hiawatha, who was taken out way too soon by Boudicca. Cesar didnt do very well this game. His attacks were even weirder than before (sending huge waves of trebuchets and legions on my infantry later in the game...)
I am going to give the Babylonians another try (not sure, if my last one was even by the rules) - this time with more cities.
1.Maya - 246 turns
2.Korea - 258 turns
3.Babylon - 281 turns
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Propably not what you'd expect... Well, I am new player, still learning a lot.
I played Korea on my first run: was very late into Renaissance, when I build a way to large army to go after Harald, who was founding cities like crazy. Not caring about culture and having annected some of Denmarks cities, I didnt manage to get to the rationalism finisher. RAs were a huge disappointment, too...
So I thought I could do a lot better as the Babylonians in a OCC. I settled 6 turns nw from the starting spot in a quite nice location for petra next to a mountain and a river. My plan was to be extremly nice to everybody and to let them steal all the technology, so RA's dont get too expensive
Well, Cesar and Harald still thought, they had to go after me - now with better units (Harals even managad to build an airforce by 1800), Wu didnt want to be friends and Askia was a complete failure (I have no idea what he did. I dont think he was involved in much fighting, but he was at negatve gpt all the time, and didnt manage to found his second city before t250 or so, when Wu finally took him out of his misery ... was it barbarians that hindered him so much?)
So I was left with 3 more or less cooperative AIs. All in all it went better RA-wise, but by far not what I had hoped for. Got a ton of GSs, 3 alone from religion (desert folklore and faith per wonder), but in the end, I still had to sit and wait for some of the last techs. (Btw, how is calculated how many beakers you get per GS? Does it depend on the cost of the open techs, the era, your bpt...)
Still, it was the most fun game of the three. Babylon grew very nicely and I loved, how Cesar once asked for an unconditional surrender in the same turn he lost his capital to Hiawatha, witch he actually managed to take back later...
With the Maya I did what some had suggested in this thread and took out Harald early with a couple of atlantists. The once every 60 turns crazy all-in attacks from cesar aside the game went peacefully for me.
I chose an engineer first from the long count to build Petra in my second city - maybe a mistake... And I managed to run into serious happiness problems with only four cities and a puppeted Kopenhagen - even when having the fountain of youth in my borders. I think, I should have expanded faster, when I fianally resarched construction and everybody was content again.
Got some expensive RAs with Pachacuti and sometimes Askia and Hiawatha, who was taken out way too soon by Boudicca. Cesar didnt do very well this game. His attacks were even weirder than before (sending huge waves of trebuchets and legions on my infantry later in the game...)
I am going to give the Babylonians another try (not sure, if my last one was even by the rules) - this time with more cities.
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