An upper class ?

[holy king]

Far from it. For instance, I know of some very humble local poets and artists who are free to navigate through the upper crust of Charleston society, and they are dirt poor. At the same time I am friends with a local concrete contractor who is swimming in cash who would not be welcome in the same circles (and could care less about it).

They are two completely distinct measurments, it is the insecurity of class warriors that insists they be linked.

Another measurement beyond culture or wealth to measure who gets to be within what circles is power. A police chief does not have wealth and may be crude as hell, but he moves through the upper social circles all the same. Even in my case to a limited degree, if I throw on my SDBs I am more than welcome to be included inside circles I otherwise wouldn't be.

being invited to a cocktail party doesnt define whether you are part of a certain class or not.

 

[Patroklos]

being invited to a cocktail party doesnt define whether you are part of a certain class or not.

You are absolutely correct. Note that is not at all what I said.

 

[holy king]

note that "being invited to a cocktail party" was my way of putting "being welcome in upper class circles"

 

[really]

I was watching the family history program "who do you think you are" for Rosanna Davison last night (a former miss world and daughter of Chris De Burgh)

She was able to see a direct ancestor (on the De Burgh / fathers's mother's side) on the Bayeux tapestry sitting next to his half brother William the Conquerer.

The other side had been illiterate factory workers that emigrated to Argentina.

 

[Cutlass]

This is an area (one of many) where common uses of the English language cause confusion instead of remove it. Behavioral class and economic class are unrelated. High social class always starts out with wealth, but sometimes remains in the class long after the wealth is frittered away.

 

[holy king]

acting within a certain set of social rules and behaviourisms can not define class. this is not a language issue but an ideological one.

 

[Cutlass]

Linsey Lohan and Paris Hilton were born into an upper social and economic class. Yet they have none. How is that not an issue of the language causing confusion?

 

[holy king]

because the definition of "having class" in this case is one imposed by upper class snobs. therefore it is an ideologival issue.

i dont think worse about paris hilton than about her father.

 

[really]

We are one country that certainly does not have an upper class, and I would say the same would apply to the Aussies, unless there is a bogan upper class ?

I find that hard to believe. Are you saying that there aren't families that own large tracts of inherited land that don't have to be up at 5.30 in the morning to milk cows because they have people to do that or that there aren't descendants of property developers that live off the rents earned from their inheritance?

I know that it is said countries like NZ, Australia, Ireland and Sweden have relatively classless societies but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I did a quick google for land ownership statistics in NZ but couldn't find anything.

 

[Patroklos]

acting within a certain set of social rules and behaviourisms can not define class. this is not a language issue but an ideological one.

No, this is you falsely equating social class with wealth. This has never been the case, and is not the case now. Again, you have fallen prey to your own class warrior mentality.

 

[trader/warrior]

Why would you need culture to be upper-class? In my experience the upper-class tends to be high income people who buy all the most expensive brand clothes, hang around in yachts and generally throw themselves over all the newest fashions.

In other words they are High income victims of peer-pressure. In my opinion these people are the least cultured.

One can have a high income and not be upper class mind you. The upper class are those rich people that tend to band together in fancy neighborhoods.

 

[Newbunkle]

The upper class is the boogeyman.

 

[Elta]

You have a very, VERY strange idea of how rich people act Elta. Probably born of envy.

I honestly don't think my boxing analogy is inaccurate.


It could be envy, but it is subconscious, because I don't see it.


I will say this though, My ex-step dad (who had/has 11 kids not including ex step children like me whom he still give money too) used to make 500k a year (he is retired now) so it is not like I have that inaccurate of a view of wealthy people. The fact of the matter is though that my step dad was/is culturally a lower middle class guy.

In fact that boxing analogy actually happened. My brothers and me would box other kids from the private school in our backyard for fun (as well as play football and all that). A kid went home with a swollen cheek and my dad was sued.

The fact of the matter is that would never happen in the neighborhood I am in now.

 

[Patroklos]

In fact that boxing analogy actually happened. My brothers and me would box other kids from the private school in our backyard for fun (as well as play football and all that). A kid went home with a swollen cheek and my dad was sued.

The fact of the matter is that would never happen in the neighborhood I am in now.

Do you know what a caustation fallacy is?

Overprotective parents, and ones that sue, have nothing to do with wealth. Plenty of rich people let their kids go forewheeling/boating/even flying with little to no supervision. And since when have the rich had an aversion to physical sports? In most wealthy families it is a right of passage.

 

[Elta]

Do you know what a *caustation fallacy is?

Overprotective parents, and ones that sue, have nothing to do with wealth. Plenty of rich people let their kids go forewheeling/boating/even flying with little to no supervision. And since when have the rich had an aversion to physical sports? In most wealthy families it is a right of passage.

Rich parents are much much more likely to be over protective and poor people are much more likely to be negligent parents.

I think a majority of this forum would agree, shall I start a poll on it?

* I didn't claim to be using empirical data M8, it is just bit of first hand experience.

You first-world people don't know the first thing about the upper class because you people don't have real lower classes.

What?!

We have crackheads and meth addicts. ...... Close enough.

 

[Ecofarm]

We have crackheads and meth addicts. ...... Close enough.

Not close enough.

First world crack/meth heads have...


Sometimes AC, computers, internet and even jobs.
Welfare.
A first-world prison/jail to go relax in for free shelter, food and security.
Civil rights.
Human rights.
Enough food (if they wanted).
More consumption than one dollar per day.


No, not close at all to third world lower class.

Flyingchicken is correct, but we wouldn't know it for all the bellyaching about oppression and lack of opportunity coming from our lazy class which, in the US, transcends economic class because we have lazy poor people who don't starve. And they're (rich or poor) oh so lazy.

In the third world, if one is born poor they die poor - period, end of story. It's not like that in the first world. We're talking lower class in a very non-voluntary, real, deadly and permanent sense. The kind of lower class that watches their children starve to death as a matter of daily routine and who have no hope of the future being different... you know... about a third of the world. It's too many and their silence drowns the cacophony of first world complainers who expect too much.

We need an exodus from the first to the third world to change politics, economic distribution and education (brain drain). Money will not fix it alone. It cannot be researchers and businessmen only; we must send citizens. Then we can be the change, but until we own it with our hearts, minds and souls (and not merely our Foreign Aid spreedsheet)... it will remain a fleeting illusion.

 

[otago]

I find that hard to believe. Are you saying that there aren't families that own large tracts of inherited land that don't have to be up at 5.30 in the morning to milk cows because they have people to do that or that there aren't descendants of property developers that live off the rents earned from their inheritance?

I know that it is said countries like NZ, Australia, Ireland and Sweden have relatively classless societies but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I did a quick google for land ownership statistics in NZ but couldn't find anything.

Inherited land and income, yes we have those, my cousin is one with the same farm being in his family for five generations.
Upper class, nope he is not.
But I must suggest he has the farm staff pulling their forelocks as he goes past seated in the back of his scruffy 4WD

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

There's a term used by fellow homies and sistas in my neck of the woods yo. Called "old money". They dirtay stinkin rich, and can be traced by their inheritance from all the way back from their grandparents or great grandparents (whether it be maternal, paternal, or damn it -both!).

 

[Ecofarm]

I wish I could work so long, hard and smart that my family was set to explore their interests for generations, but I'm in the oh so lazy class. People who do that for their family are great.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

I wish I could work so long, hard and smart that my family was set to explore their interests for generations, but I'm in the oh so lazy class. People who do that for their family are great.

You want a hug? Feel free to imagine I am right next to you by your computer chair with my arm open for your deep needed comfort.

Lazy class? Good one dude. Ha ha ...

Mine is the working poor. Not enough to have time being lazy, nor the time to find out the way to get out of being poor by working less.