Ananse's BFG Modpack 4.11

[Prime.]

OK, I think we have this figured out. The problem has to do with mod load order. I'm looking atw ays to address it and will have a fix up soon.

It's not the specific change you made that matters, it's the fact you made a change at all, which apparently reset its place in the mod load stack. Or something stupid like that. But I should be able to fix it all with specific load order commands, which I'm looking at now.

Interesting, appreciate the quick response! The game is unplayable for me without the modpack now that I've used it

I'll be checking in periodically for any updates etc

 

[Rich Santillan]

Loving the MOD since the last update (I was having loading issues with previous version). I was wondering if Minutemen not having the option to upgrade to the next unit was by design? I checked the units file but I'm not knowledgeable enough to determine if this is the case.

 

[anansethespider]

Loving the MOD since the last update (I was having loading issues with previous version). I was wondering if Minutemen not having the option to upgrade to the next unit was by design? I checked the units file but I'm not knowledgeable enough to determine if this is the case.

Nope, not intentional. All units should have upgrade paths. Thanks for the report and the kind words.

 

[Rich Santillan]

And I promise I'm not trying to spam...

Still playing with America, building/buying the "Military Academy" breaks the city/production screen. Every option after "Pioneer" on the production list disappears. Production will not even display unless you use the city advance arrows to move to and back from another city and there only a portion of the list as described appears.

 

[Maous]

Nope, not intentional. All units should have upgrade paths. Thanks for the report and the kind words.

Is there a reason auxiliary archers have 2 range and auxiliary musketmen (their direct upgrade) only has a range of 1? I really wish i wouldn't have upgraded them all so they could keep the range lol.

Also Sausage, Bread, and Can resources are bugged out on the resource menu Showing as their xml strings with no icons. Loc_resource_Sausage for example (not exact but you get the gist)

I frequently find that buildings that are added in under your version are not being built by AI even on deity tier difficultly (They are building the districts even the added unique ones but for example they seem to have trouble with cafe's, fishmongers, water mills etc.)

If it is at all possible i would really like to see AI infrastructure building greatly improved and less 6-7 civs declaring war at the same time on the player for doing no warmongering whatsoever lol. I even tried to liberate several city states and return cities to their owners instead of taking the over and still by turn 60 the entire 24 civ's on the map had denounced me. I understand this is asking a lot without access to the creation kit, but perhaps turn down their crazy unit cranking/simultaneous warring and have them build up their cities/ territories slightly more. Anything that will keep the AI relevant past the first 60 turns in this game without needing to gang bang the only human player with cheated in military would be a serious service to the entire civ6 community.

Seriously Love the mod and its already leagues beyond what vanilla civ6 is your awesome for throwing this pack together!!!

(PS. I modified civics and tech xml files so slow down the rate at which you can research to make the ai's relevant longer (well at least i don't have tanks already while they have composite bowman)
I find that playing on a quicker speed like quick or online with research and civics costs bumped up by 3-4 times makes the ai much more difficult to deal with as they can expand and really pose a threat to me before i can bee-line military units strong enough to oppress them completely.) I tried that once and while my tech really was like half an era ahead of them i also was getting really messed over by 3 ai's (especially Scythia with about 13 times more military units then me because i bee-lined and focused on growth.

The reasoning behind doing it this way and not just playing on Marathon speed is because on Marathon building units/wonders/buildings takes much much longer which gives the player way to much time to grow. Try playing against a deity tier Scythia neighbor on quick (pumping out crazy amounts of units) while you cant just take your sweet time and get composite bowman because by the time you make it there Scythia has pretty much dominated you with military numbers because you focused solely on growth.

*Edit*
Also after extensive play testing throughout the week on several different games (i tend to quit once i am a full era ahead of any other civilization in tech/civics) I've noticed one thing that really really gimps the AI's in the long run and that is city founding locations.

Is there any possible way within the current limitations of what you mod content creators have access to to prevent them from settling cities every 4th tile? A large player made city can have up to 36 buildable/workable plots where as the average AI based city is right about 18-23 tiles. This is not really evident early on but as you progress you really start to destroy the AI in city size production science culture gold faith etc. My highest population city in my current game is a 30 pop and the next highest AI city pop is 16 and that's with tech/civics slowed way way down.

With your mod i even notice a stronger falloff right around the commercial hub tech because there are so many more districts the player can build to get benefits on higher population 36 tile cities absolutely destroy a 18-23 tile city. This abuse is so strong that i usually take the AI's civilization and raze it completely to the ground because rebuilding a few 36 tile monster cities is so brokenly overpowered that its not worth keeping the already built up 16 population AI city that is tile limited. Add in trade route spam (seriously comercial hub culinary quarter etc etc along with encampment adds trade routes wonder and gov/holy site adds trade route wonder) Im seriously sitting at about 8-12 cities with around 60-70 trade routes which i transfer to my newly founded cities and make them have absolutely broken amount of production/food to grow quickly.

 

[anansethespider]

And I promise I'm not trying to spam...

Still playing with America, building/buying the "Military Academy" breaks the city/production screen. Every option after "Pioneer" on the production list disappears. Production will not even display unless you use the city advance arrows to move to and back from another city and there only a portion of the list as described appears.

Don't worry about spam

That's so bizarre! I will have to look at this and try to reproduce it later. If you could produce a database log it would be helpful!

 

[anansethespider]

Is there a reason auxiliary archers have 2 range and auxiliary musketmen (their direct upgrade) only has a range of 1? I really wish i wouldn't have upgraded them all so they could keep the range lol.

Ok, this one is actually really interesting. The Renaissance era is unique in that it has no ranged unit. When you think about it, this sort of makes sense as, at the dawn of gunpowder, guns were only really any good as short range weapons. Which is why musketmen are melee units in this game. So I made auxiliary muskets have range 1 to account for this fact, otherwise it would seem too weird that musketmen were melee but auxiliary muskets had range 2? I don't know. Still on the fence here.

Also Sausage, Bread, and Can resources are bugged out on the resource menu Showing as their xml strings with no icons. Loc_resource_Sausage for example (not exact but you get the gist)

Should be fixed in next update, sometime early this week I hope. Waiting for some new icons which I'm super psyched about

I frequently find that buildings that are added in under your version are not being built by AI even on deity tier difficultly (They are building the districts even the added unique ones but for example they seem to have trouble with cafe's, fishmongers, water mills etc.)

If you're ever bored, download the Civ V FireTuner and make the AIs play against each other and you can see exactly what they build. In my testing, they build the buildings for their districts as consistently as they build the districts themselves. If you're playing on a way earlier version then there's a problem with interdependent buildings (ie, cafe required market) but the AI couldn't figure that out at all, so I did away with it. In present versions, AI should be building all buildings.

If it is at all possible i would really like to see AI infrastructure building greatly improved and less 6-7 civs declaring war at the same time on the player for doing no warmongering whatsoever lol. I even tried to liberate several city states and return cities to their owners instead of taking the over and still by turn 60 the entire 24 civ's on the map had denounced me. I understand this is asking a lot without access to the creation kit, but perhaps turn down their crazy unit cranking/simultaneous warring and have them build up their cities/ territories slightly more. Anything that will keep the AI relevant past the first 60 turns in this game without needing to gang bang the only human player with cheated in military would be a serious service to the entire civ6 community.

What difficulty are you playing on? If you're on deity (which is where I spend most my balance time) then I have no sympathy for you! It's supposed to be hard The AI agendas could use some work so they aren't as angry/******ed, but my plan is to wait for someone else to fix that.

Broadly speaking, questions of AI are hard, for all the reasons you point out. That said, if you play on deity (or deity++ in the next version , in my testing a civ like Germany will consistently hit 200 science/turn by turn 100, online speed. Or a France will hit 200 culture and hopefully some amount of tourism too. The AI is just so awful, and it takes so long to test out a tweak...it's like trying to adjust a rocket by throwing a baseball at the control panel. Again, I'm just hoping someone else fixes it.

Seriously Love the mod and its already leagues beyond what vanilla civ6 is your awesome for throwing this pack together!!!

(PS. I modified civics and tech xml files so slow down the rate at which you can research to make the ai's relevant longer (well at least i don't have tanks already while they have composite bowman)
I find that playing on a quicker speed like quick or online with research and civics costs bumped up by 3-4 times makes the ai much more difficult to deal with as they can expand and really pose a threat to me before i can bee-line military units strong enough to oppress them completely.) I tried that once and while my tech really was like half an era ahead of them i also was getting really messed over by 3 ai's (especially Scythia with about 13 times more military units then me because i bee-lined and focused on growth.

The reasoning behind doing it this way and not just playing on Marathon speed is because on Marathon building units/wonders/buildings takes much much longer which gives the player way to much time to grow. Try playing against a deity tier Scythia neighbor on quick (pumping out crazy amounts of units) while you cant just take your sweet time and get composite bowman because by the time you make it there Scythia has pretty much dominated you with military numbers because you focused solely on growth.

Yea that makes sense. I'm actually multiplying all the civic and tech costs by 1.6 in the next version and starting from there. Curious what value you chose (and I hope you used sql, didn't edit every line of xml code!). For what it's worth I do almost all my testing on Deity, Online Speed.

*Edit*
Also after extensive play testing throughout the week on several different games (i tend to quit once i am a full era ahead of any other civilization in tech/civics) I've noticed one thing that really really gimps the AI's in the long run and that is city founding locations.

Is there any possible way within the current limitations of what you mod content creators have access to to prevent them from settling cities every 4th tile? A large player made city can have up to 36 buildable/workable plots where as the average AI based city is right about 18-23 tiles. This is not really evident early on but as you progress you really start to destroy the AI in city size production science culture gold faith etc. My highest population city in my current game is a 30 pop and the next highest AI city pop is 16 and that's with tech/civics slowed way way down.

With your mod i even notice a stronger falloff right around the commercial hub tech because there are so many more districts the player can build to get benefits on higher population 36 tile cities absolutely destroy a 18-23 tile city. This abuse is so strong that i usually take the AI's civilization and raze it completely to the ground because rebuilding a few 36 tile monster cities is so brokenly overpowered that its not worth keeping the already built up 16 population AI city that is tile limited. Add in trade route spam (seriously comercial hub culinary quarter etc etc along with encampment adds trade routes wonder and gov/holy site adds trade route wonder) Im seriously sitting at about 8-12 cities with around 60-70 trade routes which i transfer to my newly founded cities and make them have absolutely broken amount of production/food to grow quickly.

You know, as a player I tend to build cities every 3 tiles too! And I consider myself pretty alright at the game.The thing you're not taking into account is that each district can have up to 4 workers working it, which means as cities move into the lategame, their single tiles become triple or quadruple tiles in a sense.

The fact of the matter is, a smart human player is always going to be much more efficient than the AI at this stage in Civ. Civ Vi has literally the worst AI of any civ game I have ever played, and perhaps, PERHAPS, of any game I have ever played. And the sad truth is that, as more capabilities are added to the game, more synergies become possible, the AI will be at an even worse competitive disadvantage relative to the player. Because the AI cannot take advantage of any of these new toys. The AI stumbles blindly through the game without any clue how to win even against other AIs, let alone a human player.

Truth be told, my endgame is creating an awesome multiplayer environment, and an interesting/replayable single player game. It is beyond my capabilities to make single player competitive.

 

[Rich Santillan]

Don't worry about spam

That's so bizarre! I will have to look at this and try to reproduce it later. If you could produce a database log it would be helpful!

I'd be happy to generate a log I will just need some instruction. Is there a guide? I can't seem to find one.

 

[anansethespider]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-to-enable-logging.487482/

 

[Maous]

Ok, this one is actually really interesting. The Renaissance era is unique in that it has no ranged unit. When you think about it, this sort of makes sense as, at the dawn of gunpowder, guns were only really any good as short range weapons. Which is why musketmen are melee units in this game. So I made auxiliary muskets have range 1 to account for this fact, otherwise it would seem too weird that musketmen were melee but auxiliary muskets had range 2? I don't know. Still on the fence here.

There were long range musket like guns of that era called long rifles (seriously their barrels were really freaking long and had one of the earliest systems of rifled boring for improved accuracy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_rifle currently it feels really clunky to have auxiliary archers at range 2 going to auxiliary muskets at range 1 then straight to sniper at range 3. In comparison to a 6ft longbow with 110lbs draw (280m-320m) it's range was slightly shorter (250m-300m experienced users) but definitely not shorter ranged than most regular bows especially on flat terrain. In fact some of the long barrel rifled muskets later in that same century reached up to 500m effective range firing a special ammunition type called the miniball. In fact early in the following century british guns were equipped with sights up to 900m (though hitting anything beyond 500m was more luck accuracy wise but it could still go pretty far)

To reflect the fact that the long rifle was put into widespread use a little later you could attach the auxilary musket (perhaps rename to Rifled Musket? or Long Barrel Musket?) to a slightly later technology in the tree but this would be far more historically accurate anyway because archers were still very widely used at the onset of musket tech. Perhaps to compensate we could get a 4th unit Heavy Crossbowmen support unit that can't defend? you know heavy crossbows and bolts long reload time = good offense terrible defense.

So like Auxillary archer ----> Heavy Crossbow-----> Long Barrel Musket ---> Sniper

And i had almost forgotten i would LOVE to see the AI use any of these newly added units seriously that'd make the game loads loads more enjoyable.

What difficulty are you playing on? If you're on deity (which is where I spend most my balance time) then I have no sympathy for you! It's supposed to be hard

Deity, however there is hard and then there's blatantly broken mechanics such as literally not 1 civilization in a 24 player map being friendly regardless of gifts/bribes/liberation/coinciding policys/etc. I like difficulty, but its totally immersion breaking i love wars, but the amount of denouncing/wars/hate is seriously tuned way way to high. I understand it is supposed to compensate for terrible AI algorithms, but too much is too much makes playing anything but a domination victory pretty irrelevant.

Again, I'm just hoping someone else fixes it.

Can't blame you one bit there haha

Yea that makes sense. I'm actually multiplying all the civic and tech costs by 1.6 in the next version and starting from there. Curious what value you chose (and I hope you used sql, didn't edit every line of xml code!). For what it's worth I do almost all my testing on Deity, Online Speed.

Nope i literally used notepad++ to edit the base costs way higher i started at double (ended up around musketmen by turn 100) and made my way to x3 (turn 160ish) and x4 (turn 230ish)
by turn 100 at double length of civics/tech i was reaching about 300+ of each per turn in comparison to AI at 100+ at turn 100.

You know, as a player I tend to build cities every 3 tiles too! And I consider myself pretty alright at the game.The thing you're not taking into account is that each district can have up to 4 workers working it, which means as cities move into the late-game, their single tiles become triple or quadruple tiles in a sense.

I never said you were terrible at the game i just said a 36 tile city blows away 2 smaller tile cites especially late game at higher populations (and especially as germany + great engineer + wonder = more districts) I'm reaching 30 population super cities by turn 160 Where the AI is at pop 16 as their absolute biggest my avg is right around 23pop while theirs are avg around 8-9 pop. For absolute maximum super cities 7 tiles between city centers are needed. currently you can settle every 4th tile i suggest bumping it up slightly to 5 and perhaps even running a test or 2 at 6th tile minimum purely to see if it makes the AI more competitive. I have a distinct feeling they might be having trouble assigning multiple workers to the same tile in the specialty districts and this would alleviate this considerably by giving them more tiles per city to work/develop possibly making the AI relevant longer into the game (I don't play multiplayer with more that 1-2 friends so we like having AI's in to give us things to do before we start our super wars)

 

[Maous]

So i found out how to change the xml code to make min city distance further apart i tried various different combinations, but changing city min distance to 4 and incursion distance to 5 feels the best compromise between the 2 on huge map setting. I play with large map sizes mod so having 12 civs on a double the size immense map i like min city distance at 5 and incursion at 6. Really depends on the map size you play as even 4//5 setting on small map with maximum amount of civs feels a little stifling. but anywhere middle of the pack map size and upwards feels good. Anything bigger than huge i feel really requires minimum tiles between cities to be at 5. This could change depending on map style as islands this will probably not work very well. As far as testing the first 40 turns goes i have done it on fractal, continents, and pangaea with great success i find that it is much less worth it to raze 2-3 AI's cities just to rebuild a slightly better one where as before very rarely did i keep any cities from AI due to poor positioning. Still testing long term viability in terms of AI i will let you know when i have more time to play.

 

[anansethespider]

anansethespider updated Ananse's BFG Modpack with a new update entry:

Valentine's Day Update

Happy February! This update addresses a bunch of crashes with new LoadOrder commands that stack mods in a particular order. They make me happy in a real nerdy way.

Consequently, this modpack now contains the LATEST version of Moar Units by Deliverator, STACKED WITH THE LATEST VERSION of RED by Gedemon, STACKED with the Poland and Aztec Moar Units, etc. etc. etc.

It's honestly really fudging cool.

Also included in this update are NEW DISTRICT ICONS by Proclo, who has stepped up to do some...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[anansethespider]

anansethespider updated Ananse's BFG Modpack with a new update entry:

minor cosmetic change

fixed title

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[anansethespider]

anansethespider updated Ananse's BFG Modpack with a new update entry:

tiny change

added cost.sql, allows adjusting tech/civics cost.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[gnosisQ]

Cannot wait to try this new version, thank you so much!

Do we know if the YnAMP and CQUI incompatibility is only due to the Giant Earth map? I don't remember seeing these issues with BFG 3.1 while using the Greatest Earth map.

Really ****ing cool, is right!

 

[esoba]

Absolutely loving this mod so far, and all it brings to the table. After going through the various mod files I wanted to see if it was possible for you to add GDG's Adjustable Warmongering, Raze Penalty, War Weariness? I couldn't really find any place with your current mod to adjust those settings to the extent that I like to in order to have an experience I feel is a bit more realistic. I would just use both mods, but I do believe that there is some conflict with your mod as it currently stands since there is a little bit of overlap. Anyways, great work.

 

[Leyrann]

Talking about mods that might be good to be added, what about Seven05's Larger Worlds and Detailed Worlds?

 

[Maous]

anansethespider updated Ananse's BFG Modpack with a new update entry:

Valentine's Day Update



Read the rest of this update entry...

So Sexy Going to try this new update right away!!!!!

 

[Zeusmoltar9]

Hey Ananse I did a mod spotlight on yer modpack. I usually don't do modpacks but I think yours is one of the first to have a very complete package, the integration of AI+ and Moar units must have been a hell of a lot of work. I did a little install bit at the first of the video and then highlighted some of my favorite parts.

Here is the video:

Thanks for your work on this, it has made my additional content directory much smaller

note: sorry if I pronounced yer name wrong!

 

[chaorace]

Hey Ananse, I think this pack is awesome but I noticed something concerning the note for CQUI that I'd like to clarify:

"CQUI, a compilation of UI mods curated by Chaorace and including the work of several prominent modders including Hellblazer, NotQue, Production Queue by Lozenged, and More Lenses by Astog"

While it is true HBUI uses elements from CQUI, CQUI uses no elements that originate from the HBUI/No Quitters pack. That's not to hate on Hellblazer or NotQue, I love their work and the competitive community it helps foster, I'd just like that space used to have CQUI contributors credited (like our translators (e1ectron, sejbr, EvolSknaht, deggesim, frytom, and zeyangl), Vans163 (the original creator of QUI), Ace (whose independent work this mod does use), Divine Yuri (whose independent work this mod also uses), Astog (who is only credited for ML when he also contributed BTS), Greg Miller (for his Unit Report Screen mod), and other major contributors (like jacks0n, RatchetJ, and Frozen-In-Ice). These guys brought so much to the table and CQUI couldn't be anywhere close to what it is without them, I'd rather not be attributed for working on CQUI at all than let these guys go by the wayside