Ancient and Classical buildings Elimination Thread

[Josephias]

Ancestral Hall (22)
Ancient Walls (3)
Granary (5)
Lighthouse (29)
Library (13)
Market (9)
Monument (34)
Shrine (7)
Temple (20)

Shrine (6+1=7): I feel ineed to repeat vote just to balance things out and reply things like this (quoting post, just in case is deleted (no vote))

+2 faith. The grove is gone and the bar for building that would be c. +6 faith and +6 culture and +6 food.

So, we are talking about the IDEAL grove situation (3 breathtaking tiles or 6 charming tiles, that you can't improve, so losing all other + that could be added on improvements over them) without considering also potential powerful situations for the Shrine... like that you may push it to +5 or +6 in each city with a shrine, given the appropriate city states, with minimal envoy investment. (Of course, this is not the +12 you might end up with pre-city state patch ¿Ethiopia pass?, but still remarkable). This is as well valid for Library and Market (and Lighthouse), but they are faring better now.

Granary (8-3=5): Then, downvoting again granary. As commented in previous posts, early housing needs can be covered achieved from other sources (improvements), so, even if in the long run you probably want a granary, short-term it is only a priority if you settled without access to water. And out of the remaining buildings, priority in the build queue is probably one of the decisive factors.

 

[Mr. Salt]

Ancestral Hall (22)
Ancient Walls (0) (Eliminated)
Granary (5)
Lighthouse (29)
Library (13)
Market (10)
Monument (34)
Shrine (7)
Temple (20)

Market: Not as good as the Lighthouse, sure, but additional Trade Routes are indispensable. Any landlocked city with a Commercial Hub is going to build one of these.

Ancient Walls: On the other hand, I rarely find myself building these. Simply not worth the investment in Production, and an Archer with Garrison is a better defensive option against pretty much everything. Might be higher if you spawn near some crazy early-aggression civ, but that seems like a corner case so I'll ignore it.

 

[greenOak]

Ancestral Hall (23) (22+1)
Granary (5)
Lighthouse (29)
Library (13)
Market (10)
Monument (34)
Shrine (7)
Temple (17) (20-3)

Ancestral Hall (+1) - Gives you so many free builder charges over the course of the game - comparable to pyramids which won best wonder a while back. Part of the reason why monument is so good is because of how powerful early access to this building is. The +50% bonus is just icing on the cake.

Temple (-3) - Not a bad building (none of the buildings left are), but has a couple reasons to downvote it. First, holy sites are more skippable than campuses, harbours, and commercial hubs. Second, I think its comparable to the shrine in strength which sits a lot lower in voting.

 

[Vargas1]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Granary (6) (5+1)
Lighthouse (29)
Library (13)
Market (10)
Monument (34)
Shrine (4) (7-3)
Temple (17)

Granary - I’m confused by the notion that cities get by just fine without it. Maybe it’s because I like big, productive cities but I tend to build this pretty quickly in most cities. It doesn’t take long to get to 4 pop, and if you want enough production to build your second district or fill in buildings or build a wonder, you’re going to want housing to be able to grow beyond that point. I guess if you’re doing a min-max 4-pop to build a campus and no higher game that you may not use it, but otherwise this seems like it should be higher.

Shrine - the problem with shrines is that what they do for you is done better in other ways. Founding a religion is done better in through holy site prayers, and spreading it is better done through apostles. It’s basically just a waystation to get to the temple.

 

[Francel]

For the record, I like markets, but something has to lose. Commercial hubs aren't the first district I build, even inland, and I like harbors enough that to make a point of trying to settle coastal when possible.

Ancestral Hall (20) (23-3) - I still don't see what is so amazing about a free builder relative to an extra four housing and two amenities. To get the same housing with a builder takes 8 farms. Builders can be produced or bought ad infinatum, but amenities and housing cannot be conjured out of thin air. 50% production to settlers is okay but also loses its luster unless you are building a lot of settlers. I have most of my cities planted by the time I finish the first government plaza building.
Granary (6)
Lighthouse (30) (29+1) - As mentioned temple and lighthouse are my top 2. Temple yesterday, lighthouse today. Extra trade route, housing, food gold, great person point, ship experience, and provides wonder access (not that lighthouse and colossus are the best, but they are often obtainable) at a reasonable production cost.
Library (13)
Market (10)
Monument (34)
Shrine (4)
Temple (17)

 

[Archon_Wing]

Ancestral Hall 17 (20-3) Although I also build this the most, it's way overrated and I strongly disagree with it being so far above the other two-- all 3 buildings have their use. Although I probably build Audience Chamber more than anyone else, AH is not a useful building in cramped scenarios, either by other civs or just stuff like mountains. Sure, you'll eventually be able to find land, but I'd argue either of the other two have more of an immediate effect potentially.

The other thing is that capturing cities is just simply a superior tactic and you can recycle your units but settlers get more expensive. If you capture 10 cities the whole game, (admittingly they need to be spaced for 5 turns each but this is not hard unless you're facerolling anyways and no choice matters), you would get 50 turns of extra production with Warlord's Throne.

Assuming the game goes on for 200 turns after you build it, that's basically a 25% uptime on the bonus which can be used to secure all kinds of wonders and crap while you continue to add to your empire. This is not to mention that the game pulls more weight on earlier turns, so that the 50 turns or so at the end don't really matter as much. More realistically speaking, this is more like 30-40% uptime on turns that actually matter. (the ones that come right after you build the building.) And capturing 10 cities is not really anything resembling a domination victory either. I would honestly say if I knew I was going to take more than 5 cities, I would always build Warlord's Throne unless it would take a while to start a war.



I don't want to really justify Audience Chamber, but it's strictly better on island maps where you can neither travel with settlers everywhere easily or take stuff. There are also maps that just don't have many luxuries too, or lack rivers.

Finally, I'd like to point out that the bonus to settler production only applies to the city itself, and I would hazard a bet that many people are probably wasting the overflow anyways. You're building AH mainly for those extra builders.

Granary (6)
Lighthouse (30)
Market (10)
Monument (34)
Shrine 5 (4+1) I mean, it's only 70 production-- 5 more than a granary. It's one of the most efficient buildings in the entire game. If the Temple is so high still it makes no sense that the shrine should be picked on. You kinda can't have one without the other.

Obviously you can run projects if in a hurry but I dunno, if I have to pick between Shrine or Granary, it's obviously going to be the shrine.

Temple (17)

in reference to @Archon_Wing comment on granaries, I feel compelled to add that I SO disagree with this: Honestly, not sure how this is around as this is literally the last thing on the list I build, and sometimes not at all. Housing isn't useful on its own unless you lack fresh water. As a player who barely ever builds any farms and likes to build up population in order to build Districts, Granaries are simply a staple in each and every city I build. If I don't build it, I buy it with gold. EDIT: To me, the 4 builder charges and the lost opportunity to build something better on the 4 tiles needed to even the 2 housing you get with granaries is a no go for farms

I usually don't build farms of the time either. Usually housing from improvements on resources (mostly luxuries) is sufficient. And housing is useless without the proper amenities anyways.Pop really only matters when you have lots of good tiles to work; and pop 7 is not that hard to achieve by chopping jungle or whatnot.

 

[canadamufc]

Ancestral Hall (18) (17+1) The main argument in favour of this is wide is much better tall. More cities=better game. Those builders shouldn't be underestimated, they can get a city up and running very fast even though it is newly settled. Put in Serfdom and you have 5 charge builders popping out everytime you settle a city. You want a campus in that city? That builder will speed it up tremendously. I mean if you don't have space then yes, it is not as good as it could be. However you can usually just get space for 12~ cities, and you should get a builder from most of them.
Granary (6)
Lighthouse (27) (30-3) I rate this slightly higher than the Market but both definitely have flaws. I agree that it makes coastal cities much better, but it raises the question as to why settle coast in the first place? If I have to put investment into a district and building to make a coastal city great, then why don't I settle inland in which it doesn't need such investment? I think the Lighthouse has lots of great bonuses, without a doubt. However sometimes I think "will it make the city better than an inland one?" The answer is maybe, but it does need investment that an inland would not need. I do think it can get a lot of value on a heavy water map though, and when you have run out of room to settle outside of the coast.
Market (10)
Monument (34)
Shrine (5)
Temple (17)

 

[lilnev!]

Library got dropped:

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (6)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (27)
Market (10)
Monument (34)
Shrine (5)
Temple (17)

 

[Amrunril]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (6)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (27)
Market (11)
Monument (34)
Shrine (5)
Temple (14)

Temple (17-3=14) I'm surprised to see such a large differential between the Shrine and Temple. Generally, I consider the first of either to be a fairly high priority in a game where I found a religion. Once missionary and apostle purchases are unlocked, though, the building loses a lot of value and is unlikely to be more than a medium priority in secondary and beyond Holy Sites.

Market (10+1=11) This will be a priority in virtually every inland city. One more trade route slot will pretty much always be valuable.

 

[fy00sh]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (6)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (28)
Market (11)
Monument (34)
Shrine (2)
Temple (14)

Lighthouse (28) (27+1) the cooler market. It gives the same trade route a market does, it gets the same trade CS envoy bonus a market does, it doesn't directly give the +2 gold a market does but rather indirectly gives you even more gold by making the coast workable, and buffs the housing of an ocean-adjacent city to one more than if it were just next to a river. In fact, the housing bonus applies even if you settle the city on a lake, and stacks with an aqueduct, so a water-tile-adjacent city center with an aqueduct and a lighthouse gets 8 housing if not adjacent to fresh water, 9 if adjacent to a river or lake. That's plenty of population to build more districts, like an IZ to make up for the coast's potentially low production, and some other districts that'll get at least ok adjacency from other adjacent districts. It's not as good as the monument, but for me it's an easy second.
Shrine (2) (5-3) Religious gameplay is very important, and unless you wanna spam a bunch of holy sites everywhere, including places that might make better campus tiles, you'll need to build at least some shrines and maybe temples to get some decent faith generation, very important for a culture game, and if you can get the right beliefs, for any other victory condition. But compared to everything else left, I think it's time for the shrine to go. When you're trying to get a religion, it's better to run prayers, and then when you're trying to snag the best beliefs and spread your religion, Apostles are either necessary or a much better deal than missionaries. Shrines just end up being a stepping stone to get to temples in most of my games.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Wow, I missed much...


Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (6)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (28)
Market (11)
Monument (35) (34+1)
Shrine (0) (2-3) (Eliminated
Temple (14)

Shrine: Might as well eliminate something while I'm here. And 8th place isn't half-bad.

Monument: The simple things can sometimes be the best things.

 

[TCBB]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (3)(6-3)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (28)
Market (11)
Monument (36) (35+1)
Temple (14)

Granary (3)(6-3) A couple of people have made the point that there are many sources of housing besides Granaries. At this stage, that’s as good a reason to downvote as any.

Monument (36) (35+1) Indifferent to this round of upvotes, so more appreciation for the early game culture king.

 

[Equilin]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (4) (3+1) I will have this sooner or later (usually later), but i WILL have them in all my cities.
Library (13)
Lighthouse (28)
Market (8) (11-3) These, however, are not always a thing in my empire. i can get easy sources of gold here and there, and not a fan of managing too many of trade routes.
Monument (36)
Temple (14)

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (1)(4-3)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (28)
Market (8)
Monument (36)
Temple (15) (14+1)

Granary (1) (4-3) Was about to eliminate this, but Equilin just beat me with an upvote. A Granary can be what gets your city to pop 4 or pop 7 — or, you might not need it at all if you've got other sources of housing.

Temple (15) (14+1) One more vote for Temple, as I predict it will be the next to go, and Faith is my favourite yield in many ways.

 

[Leucarum]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (1)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (25)
Market (8)
Monument (37)
Temple (15)

I don't think the lighthouse (28-3) merits such a atromg 2nd place position. It is a solid building, but not so much a runaway leader as the monument (36+1) which you absolutely will want everywhere.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (1)
Library (13)
Lighthouse (25)
Market (9)
Monument (37)
Temple (12)

Can't believe the Temple (15-3 = 12) is still here at this stage when there are many games you won't build a single one.

The Market (8+1=9) shouldn't be next to go after the Granary, you need many of these (Lighthouse is good but needs a coastal city).

 

[CrabHelmet]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (2) [1+1]
Library (10) [13-3]
Lighthouse (25)
Market (9)
Monument (37)
Temple (12)

If you need a Granary, they're a life-saver. You'll probably always build a Library, but there's basically no strategy where it is a pressing priority and every single other building on this list will be built before it under the right circumstances.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Ancestral Hall (18)
Granary (2)
Library (10)
Lighthouse (26) [25+1]
Market (6) [9-3]
Monument (37)
Temple (12)

Lighthouse: Not only one of my favorite buildings in the game (hard not to like a harbor building when your favorite civ is Phoenecia ), but a good one too. This + shipyard are what make coastal cities not only viable, but good. Very good. That extra food and housing helps your cities to grow (a big issue with the coast), and the passive gold + trade route capacity helps to boost your economy. With enough developed harbors, you begin to snowball, and as soon as a harbor finishes in a newly founded city, you can quickly purchase all the infrastructure it needs to be up to speed with your cities that have been around for 50 turns before it. Absolutely great building.

Market: Commercial Hubs are just boring, really. Passive gold is nice, sure, and yeah, trade route capacity is nice, too, but I'm too bored to build this most of the time. Plus, when you compare it to the Lighthouse (same production cost, same extra trade route, and both tied to an economic district), this just doesn't have nearly as much of an impact to me. Just kinda eh.

 

[bengalryan9]

Ancestral Hall (19) (18+1) I mean sure, you could probably make a strong argument that the Warlord's Throne is better overall and will provide more of a benefit since it's always better to capture cities than to settle them... but I don't care, I'm not playing that way and I know there's a bunch of other players who agree. War kind of sucks in this game... if it works for you and you enjoy it, great, but for the rest of us there's a ton to be gained from AH.
Granary (2)
Library (10)
Lighthouse (26)
Market (3) [6-3] I think I'd take a shrine, its faith generation, and the possibility of extra culture/food if you get the right beliefs over a market, its gold, and a trade route early in the game.
Monument (37)
Temple (12)

 

[bbbt]

Ancestral Hall (19)
Granary (2)
Library (10)
Lighthouse (26)
Market (4) 3 + 1 - A trade route is a huge bonus, and great merchants are still a tad better than great admirals for non-militaristic play. And a lot of times I'm playing an inland civ.
Monument (37)
Temple (9) 12 -3 - It might be specific to my playstyle, but I rarely try and spread my religion - if I'm going for a monumentality/faith economy game, it's usually because I've got a lot of high adjacency holy site locations. Build a shrine to convert my initial cities, then use religious colonization for the rest. The temple usually comes pretty late, sometimes only to finish my religion for golden age points.