Ancient and Classical buildings Elimination Thread

[tedhebert]

Amphitheater (4) (3+1) common. Building stores book, gives culture, Great Writer points, and we always build many in our games. it's really not as bad as everyone seems to feel.
Ancestral Hall (22)
Ancient Walls (23)
Granary (24)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (9)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (21)
Warlord’s throne (16) (19-3) I never, ever take this. Probably because I always play huge maps and ancestral hall is king. So for me, this is so useless compared to market or amphitheater... not even a contest

 

[Amrunril]

Amphitheater (4)
Ancestral Hall (22)
Ancient Walls (23)
Granary (21)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (10)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (21)
Warlord’s throne (16)

Market (9+1=10) Given the choice, I'll choose a Harbor/Lighthouse over a Commercial Hub/Market. That's not an option in every city, though, and trade routes are strong enough to make markets a priority in those inland cities.

Granary (24-3=21) A city in a strong location will be able to grow quite a bit before it needs this, and a city that needs this to get started will still take a long time before it starts meaningfully contributing to your empire. Most of my cities will build this eventually, but it's rarely a top priority. I don't think this should be competitive with options like the Monument, trade route buildings and Government Plaza buildings.

 

[Vargas1]

Amphitheater (1)
Ancestral Hall (22)
Ancient Walls (23)
Granary (22)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (10)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (21)
Warlord’s throne (16)

Granary (22) - If a city is in a strong location, it needs the granary sooner, not later - in any decent city (usually at least my first 3-4), housing is going to be the bottleneck to growth far more than food. The granary is what gets you from two to three districts in a city in a timely fashion, and what lets you survive with non-freshwater cities until you can get up lighthouses/aqueducts.

Amphitheater (1) - Culture victories are my favorite and so I build a lot of these, but it's not a very exciting building - it seems to serve more as a waystation to getting into the much better museums. Having a place to put great writers is useful but not as much as before writing was nerfed. A fine building, but the weakest remaining.

A final note from me on the great Audience Chamber debate - as an AC supporter, I have no issue with how it went out. I always took the rule against continuous voting to mean we shouldn't just vote the same thing over and over and over again, not that there is some issue with voting for something just twice in a row. I didn't see anything vexatious about people voting against AC - just people who thought it a weak building. Especially in these latest threads (which are great), where there are not that many options to choose from to begin with, I expect we will see a fair amount of repeat voting just organically.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Amphitheater (-2) ELIMINATED
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Granary (22)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (10)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (21)
Warlord’s throne (16)

Amphitheatre -2 (1-3): So I had a good think about this one to make sure I was really happy that this is the weakest building left. It is. Theatre Squares are quite low down on the district priority list, even if you're going for a cultural victory, since that doesn't really get going till the late game. It's just very meh and doesn't even give you a Eureka or Inspiration.

Ancestral Hall 22 (22+1): Upvoted because there are some buildings above it that maybe shouldn't be. I think the top 5 is going to be a real bunfight as there's a lot of strong contenders.

 

[enKage]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (20)
Granary (22)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (11)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (21)
Warlord’s throne (16)

I am schocked to see amphiteater eliminated so soon, as its culture scales with envoys, as well as shrine, market, LH, lib, barracks (BTW, where are barracks? Those threads are usually dominated not-a-single-war approach in game, while even peacemongers can benefit from added production toward civilian units)

My upvote to market
+1
Bonus gold from city states, bonus trade route capacity, easier to place than lighthouse and basically I don't understand such a huge gap between these two. +30% production into with correct card is not enough for me to explain it
Also market gives great merchant points and most of merchants are far better than admirals while being less competitive

-3 Ancient walls
In single player you don't even need walls, maybe one for eureka and that is all

 

[CoconutTank]

Well this is awkward! For me most of the easy choices are gone now.

Warlord’s Throne (17) (16 + 1) All down to play styles and preferences, but I build the Warlord’s Throne more often than I build the Ancestral Hall. I usually find myself (hehe) prioritizing militarization pretty early on, but I also find myself running out of room to settle pretty early on too. At which point, WT feels like a better option than Ancestral Hall for the most part, as it often benefits my playstyle and is something I can rely on for the rest of the game.

Make no mistake though, Magnus + Provision in a city with AH is pretty sweet if one can get that going early enough

Temple (18) (21 - 3) Nothing against Temple, just that out of the remaining options left, I think I'm least likely to build a Temple (which I can't build till I have a Shrine first anyway).

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (20)
Granary (22)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (11)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (18)
Warlord’s Throne (17)

 

[bengalryan9]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (21) (20+1) That's cool that some of you guys can apparently get by without building any walls and all but some of us lowly plebeians really get a lot of use out of them.
Granary (22)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (8) (11-3) Personally I kind of want to downvote the Warlord's Throne but since I don't particularly want to be the one who starts THAT particular debate I'll go with the market instead as I do think it's the weakest left on the list. The fact that great merchants are less competitive means you can buy the early ones with faith if you go all in with those buildings and build a strong faith economy, and those buildings might even give you food and culture too if you're lucky.
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (18)
Warlord’s throne (17)

 

[Josephias]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (19)
Lighthouse (26)
Library (20)
Market (8)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22)
Temple (18)
Warlord’s throne (17)

Granary (22-3=19), with already strong options remaining I've to go with the idea strong fresh water cities can stay without it for a while, depending on external sources (improvements) to get more housing. Although it is true in non-freshwater cities granary plays an important role allowing you to grow enough to manage the building of other housing sources (aqueducts, lighthouses,...), you can skip it building in the other cities until you start to grow seriously by medieval and beyond. I don't think any of the other buildings on the list falls in this lack of priority for an important set of cities.

Ancient Walls (21+1=22), Well, ancient walls might fall in this case of lack of priority if you are at peace, for sure, but then become an important priority if you have to hold the line to an attack. And I'm not thinking mainy on its defensive value, but in the "broken" 2-tile city attack that allows you an additional attrition factor to the invading force. Was not for the attack, power of walls would be more sensible, and I might not uprank them, but as it is now, they are indeed valuable

 

[Francel]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (19)
Lighthouse (27) (26+1) - The lighthouse provides an excellent food/housing boost to coastal cities, especially ones that lack access to fresh water. Add in the trade route and the fact there are some pretty decent great admirals now and you have a strong contender.
Library (20) - In order to avoid voting vexatiously, this isn't actually a vote (just an observation): I like science, but I don't like how it delays other things I want. Other than spaceship games, I simply shun research and therefore never see a library in most games. Certainly not an early library.
Market (8)
Monument (31)
Shrine (22) - Another observation - Why is this now ahead of the much better temple?
Temple (18)
Warlord’s throne (14) (17-3) - Much weaker than audience chamber if you aren't conquering any cities. Conquering cities is likely to require a substantial investment into troops at least on deity/immortal, so unless your plan entails fielding a large army and going to war (a negligible percentage of my games), probably best to avoid this one. I’ll add 20% for 5 turns doesn’t seem huge to me - if I did the math right, it’s 1/10 of what Australia gets for receiving DoW. Also, revenge for muh audience chamber.

 

[CrabHelmet]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (19)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (17) [20-3]
Market (8)
Monument (32) [31+1]
Shrine (22)
Temple (18)
Warlord’s throne (14)

I had quite a long think at this stage because these are all good buildings, albeit some context dependent, and started thinking about how much I prioritise them when they are relevant. Granaries are essentially a first or second build in cities where I couldn't get fresh water access, otherwise that city just doesn't grow. High priority. Some games I never build Ancient Walls at all, but when I need to do an aggressive forward settle and feel secure, they are often the first thing to be built. Ancestral Hall and Warlord's Throne are obviously almost always both rushed. I don't beeline Lighthouse, per se, but it's a very high priority still because of the Trade Route and how much it picks up Coastal Cities. The Shrine is rushed if I want a religion; the Temple if I want to seriously compete in Religion.

That leaves two buildings I'm not exactly gunning for: the Library and the Market. The trouble is with the Library is that I think an overly speedy Library is a waste or requires very careful management of Eurekas, otherwise your Science can end up going towards techs you haven't yet got a discount for. That means I tend to wait just a little for Library compared to other buildings on this list (provided they're relevant, obviously, I'm not building a Granary in every city). The other is Markets. I probably prioritise a Market slightly more than a Library because I really rate early trade routes. So, surprisingly, my vote is against Libraries. I will eventually always build them, obviously, but they feel like the lowest priority build on this list.

I didn't mention Monuments and that's because I just feel they're a clear winner. Unless you're pursuing Culture Victory, they nearly make Theatre Squares defunct for almost half the game without having to build a District, just really good.

 

[hhhhhh]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (19)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (14) (17-3) 90 production is pretty precious early game, and 2 science doesn't do much for you in the early game. If you have envoys in 3-4 science CS maybe worth it but most of the cases it's not worth it. (Didn't mean to orchestrate the downvote on Library but CrabHelmet downvoted it as I'm writing.)
Market (8)
Monument (32)
Shrine (22)
Temple (18)
Warlord’s throne (15) (14+1) I sincerely suggest people don't downvote something because of it forces a strategy as long as that strategy is viable. Otherwise people can also argue that lighthouses are pretty useless if you play Pangaea map and settle inland -- that's technically true but doesn't make too much sense. Not a huge fan for domination games, just upvoting to correct some unjust downvotes.

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (16) (19-3)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (14)
Market (8)
Monument (32)
Shrine (22)
Temple (19)(18+1)
Warlord’s throne (15)

Temple (19)(18+1) I agree with a previous poster, there's no logic in Temple being below Shrine. Faith is an incredibly useful resource for multiple victory types (and there's an argument to be made that going Monumentality in the Classical/Medieval Eras is the most powerful strategy in the game).

Plus, it's worth pointing out that Temples are much cheaper than all other tier 2 buildings (120 production vs. 195 for Armory, 250 for University, 290 for Banks, etc.), so you can feasibly spam one in every city by the end of the Medieval era, if you choose to.

Granary (16)(19-3) A decent bonus, but it deserves a downvote now because there are many other sources of housing (farms, plantations, fishing boats, buildings, Cahokia Mounds, Aqueducts etc.)

 

[kryat]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (14)
Market (8)
Monument (32)
Shrine (19) (22-3)
Temple (20) (19+1)
Warlord’s throne (15)

Temple - This may seem like an odd pairing of votes. Shrines are nice, but temples are better. They are a much larger source of faith, have a relic slot, and enable apostles for evangelizing beliefs (among other benefits). Even in a non-RV game, temples are a bargain to up your faith economy which you’ll want for something later in the game. And religions are great to get even not going RV for things like choral music or Jesuit education.

Shrine - The best argument for it is that it helps you get a religion. Except it doesn’t do at as well as just a holy site doing prayers. You’ll want them eventually, but they’re low priority for when they unlock.

 

[canadamufc]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (15) (14+1) Science is really good. Great Scientists are very strong, and this building is the way that you will secure them (mainly). This is what you will use (outside of adjacency) to tech up all the way to Universities. Also, if you build these early you could gain the Great Scientist Hypathia to make these even more powerful.
Market (5) (8-3) I was contemplating over this or the Lighthouse, and I think I choose the Market. It just doesn't have enough to stay in IMO. +3 GPT is nice, but compared to other it doesn't stand too well. I think I build this more often than the Lighthouse, but I think the latter gets slightly more value. However, I think the Lighthouse should go after this.
Monument (32)
Shrine (19)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s throne (15)

 

[aieeegrunt]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (15)
Market (5 +1) = 6. The Lighthouse is superior IF you are on a coast. That is a big iff. Markets allow traders, and an internal trade route from a just founded city to a major city with the right districts and govenor can give a pretty huge boost to production and food and bootstrap it a lot.
Monument (32)
Shrine (19)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s throne (15 - 3) = 12. This is pretty situational and you won’t get the boost often.

Also allowing people to keep voting in these threads day after day makes the results kinda pointless, as someone can just hate vote something to death

 

[TCBB]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (15)
Market (7)(6+1)
Monument (32)
Shrine (19)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (9)(12-3)

Warlord’s Throne (9)(12-3) Reaching the point where I don't have strong feelings: I like them all. But I guess Warlord's Throne is the one I build the least often—only in domination games, and even then I sometimes go Ancestral Hall.

Market (7)(6+1) Copy of the last post's logic. Although it loses out in a 1vs.1 comparison with Lighthouses, I think this is an unfair way to judge the Market: often you aren't able to build Harbours, which makes Markets even more important if you want trade routes. Also, the AI doesn't seem to prioritise Commercial Hubs (with a few exceptions, e.g. Mali or Cree), so if you build two or three early Markets you can essentially secure a lock-down on all Great Merchants.

 

[lilnev!]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (27)
Library (16) (15+1)
Market (7)
Monument (32)
Shrine (16) (19-3) Faith is optional. Science is not.
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (9)

 

[Vargas1]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (28) (+1)
Library (16)
Market (7)
Monument (32)
Shrine (16)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (6) (-3)

Voting a little early today.

Lighthouse - gives you everything you need to grow a valuable coastal city. The extra housing for cities founded on the coast is huge, especially since you can fill in a lot of coastal spots away from fresh water.

Warlord’s Throne - Invaluable in a pure domination or heavily warmonger game, but in most games, even where I capture some cities, this only provides a benefit for a small portion of the game.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (19)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (28)
Library (16)
Market (8)
Monument (32)
Shrine (16)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (6)

Also voting slightly early today. Lots of strong contenders here, quite tough to choose my up and downvotes.

Ancient Walls 19 (22-3): Its a decent building, but it doesn't deserve to be hanging with the big boys. You might build one or two in your border cities, or to get the Eureka, or if you're unlucky enough to get a Barb infestation. And if you're going for a cultural victory, sometime around the late renaissance/early industrial you'll suddenly panic and remember to plug in Limes and spam them everywhere. Or if you're really desperate for housing and you have taken Monarchy.....So yeah, it has it's uses, but they are disparate and not particularly powerful.

Market 8 (7+1): Lets face it, you're going to build one of these in every inland city settled on a river. It doesn't give as much raw output as the Lighthouse, but you're still going to build markets in almost every game. The gold it gives is meh, but +1 trade route is +1 trade route.

 

[Leucarum]

Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (19)
Granary (16)
Lighthouse (28)
Library (17)
Market (8)
Monument (32)
Shrine (16)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (3)

There is nothing bad here left... I usually build Warlord's throne less than the rest... And while it's more psossible than ever to skimp on campuses, I still usually want quite a few libraries.

Edit: Added in above post made at same time