Ancient Empires, modern, industrial incarnation

[Wyrmshadow]

i agree. perhaps the crest could be reduced to markings on the helmet.

wyrm, can you take the armour of the line infantry and put it on the first spartan, and change the armours colour to that dark green armour plates he wears? i don't know if it's possible

#1. No. it's modern ceramic plate. I won't put that breast plate on the modern trooper.
#2. No. Armies were brightly colored during that time so that you could tell who was where. Hiding was not a going concern during those sorts of battles.

 

[jatibi]

okay, but then they would not need an assault rifle... *confused*

yes but in modern warfare they try not to make officers the best target .. you know that, i just don't understand, what are you trying to do here.

 

[flamescreen]

I like the Roman ones, lovely.
For the Greeks, I see it a different way than others as a Greek, but will agree that a too obvious crest might not be too desirable. I love the cape and the plate as an extra touch. Makes them more Greek feeling(and the plate could be transformed to a modern looking protecting vest keeping the general desing).

Have no idea if a modern Athenean is in your plans, but if not, you could stick with the helmet alone, I think it's very distinguishing for Greek units. Especially the front, perfect and the googles great. If you will build Atheneans too, I suppose a very short crest, might work better and look more modern? Can't say I'm a military expert though.

Maybe you could cover the ears in the side, which prolly wouldn't make them that different and would be sensible for modern combat tactics. Also, maybe a bayonet for the gun, though a bit anachronistic, but that's the idea of the unit I guess. I like the idea of adding a xifos, but it prolly change during that time; however I can't offer a solution to what it would evolve, maybe they'd replace it with one of those Gurkha knives?

A suggestion would be an embedded to the suit melee weapon; maybe something claw-like, like Wolverine's claws? Or just a special glove with a pointed object in the middle to stab? Anyway, these are some suggestions; I'm sure you have an idea of were your unit is headed and how will you make it.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I like the designs you made, but there is one thing bothering me, regarding

No modern infantry in the world looks like their soldiers 2k years ago and no modern army uses body armour. Why should romans do that, if their empire hadn't ceased to exist?
Don't get me wrong, they are absolutely cool, but no army would carry such uniforms into battle, especially the crest on the helmet.

Who cares? I like Wyrms designs and I am a BIG fan of what if units, and besides, a people as traditional as the spartans surviving to the 19th century WOULD wear creasts, its a matter of your tastes not wanting wyrm to make the units, please don't ruin it for people like me.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

I don't remember off hand what the exact name of the unit was, but it was sort of like the special ops (they were in Rome Total War). They wore black capes and hoods, a sword in each hand, they could hide (in the game) and they wore a mask to scare the enemy. I'll bring up RTW tonight and try to get a decent screenshot of what they look like for you. The mask in particular is what I will look for, right now it kinda looks like the Helghast in Killzone, which is still very cool, but I think the ones from RTW look better. I'll be getting home around 2:00 today and if I will try to do it then.

Btw, these kick a$$. Thought I'd just add that in there.

 

[jatibi]

Something may or may not come of this, but I'd like to post some more whif potential units. Such as my modern Roman and Spartan. What I would like is some creative criticism on colors, equipment, traditions etc that could be brought over from antiquity and put into a modern context.

i don't think stazro wanted to ruin your units, he just wants the realism, as do i. sorry, but you're wrong.

if modern context means bullets, assault rifles, trenches, snipers and tanks, the spartans wouldn't use such crests in combat. but they might transform the crests into something different, which reminds of the crest, perhaps stylized markings or something different...

if realism doesn't count, well than everything goes...

 

[flamescreen]

^You shouldn't be replying to Wyrm for that, but Sword of Geddon.
True, nobody knows how the crest would evolve, might dissapear or replaced, might as well remain, or even evolve to having two or three smaller ones instead of one.

However this is Wyrm's unit, he should build it as he chooses to. If you really disagree, don't DEMAND or FORCELY request for something, as you know better. None of us does, cause all of this is hypothetical. You wouldn't TELL a driver how to drive if you didn't drive yourself, right? So why do that for a unit artist?

I reckon, if you do create units you can do a similar as you want it. If not DON'T demand or say they're wrong and you're right. It's a mistaken statement.

 

[T-mun]

I've also got more 19th century stuff too. I used a french cuirassier as a base for this. I changed his helmet from the original, and added thigh, shin, toe guards. I also had to fatten his scabbard to use my roman officer's massive sword.

Nobody seemed to notice it, but he can't have the scabbard and the sword on the same side

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I was replying to someone who thought that wyrms units were stupid.

 

[Blue Monkey]

As a former member of the 101st during a period when dress and field uniforms were both being redesigned I can tell you that traditional elements are often incorporated in vestigial form. Herewith a possible solution to the great crest debate:

Note that the officers are distinguished by colored bands on the helmet. When Truffaut was working with the costume designers for the film they lit upon these helmets that were in fact used by some European emergency services during the '60s.

 

[Stazro]

I never said the units were stupid, i never wanted to ruin it for somebody and i never wanted to demand a special way to make the units; you may have noticed i even said i like them.

I will try to chose a clearer formulation, for what i wanted to express, without offending someone:
These design may be useful for a scenario or a mod in which this combination of ancient and modern aspects serves the purpose to create a special atmosphere, but - and that is what i wanted to point out - with this strong anciently affected style (crest, body armour), the units lack the realism to serve as - for example - roman or greek flavor units in an epic game mod.
This is said without ignoring the "what-if"-character; i am convinced that roman infantry nowadays wouldn't wear a modern "lorica segmenta", even if the roman empire would still exist, as you can find no modern army outfit that is influenced by their respective ancient heritage in a comparable strong way.
I tried to point out that the units could be of more use if the ancient elements would be less dominant.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

...... i am convinced that roman infantry nowadays wouldn't wear a modern "lorica segmenta"............., I tried to point out that the units could be of more use if the ancient elements would be less dominant.

It's Civ. You can't see it unless its dominant. This thread doesnt have room for your party-pooping arrogance. Why don't you go to Orthanc's thread and tell him how rediculous his Mezo-American ships are buy that same logic. Now I'm going to pretend that What-if you never posted here.

Oh, and don't ever tell me I'm wrong.

 

[bigdog5994]

wyrm your so wrong

but really though i think these units are really neat but i dont really like the bug eyes on the spatan or the crest maybe the crest should be like part of the helmet like the conquistadors had on ther helmet but i really think the bug eyes should go because it makes him look like a bug man instead of a spartan

 

[Quinzy]

Nobody seemed to notice it, but he can't have the scabbard and the sword on the same side

you do realise that the unit is just in preliminary set-up? its not grounded, and the weapons arent in place. i'm sure wyrm will move the scabbard to its correct place once he's positioning the unit

 

[BadKharma]

I really like what you are putting together here its very innovative and unique.
I dont see the spartan as bug eyed. To me it looks like the helmet contains built in optics for that unit.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

wyrm your so wrong

but really though i think these units are really neat but i dont really like the bug eyes on the spatan or the crest maybe the crest should be like part of the helmet like the conquistadors had on ther helmet but i really think the bug eyes should go because it makes him look like a bug man instead of a spartan

Wyrm said that if you don't like what he is doing, don't speak in his thread, plain and simple.

 

[MarineCorps]

I really like what you are putting together here its very innovative and unique.
I dont see the spartan as bug eyed. To me it looks like the helmet contains built in optics for that unit.

Thats what I've been thinking. infrared, night vision, etc.


However I do think that the crest should be removed.

During World War I, it was soon discovered that the Pickelhaube did not measure up to the demanding conditions of trench warfare. Soon after war began, the Germans added cloth covers to their brightly ornamented Pickelhauben in order to reduce their combat visibility

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Roman Arcani
They are a shadowy part of the Roman army organised in small groups and competent in camouflage and deception. The arcani exist almost as a secret society whose very name should not be spoken. The armour they wear is finely crafted so that while it offers great protection, it will not slow or tire the fantastically fit arcani troops. Their face masks mean opposing troops may even flee in terror when surprised by a group of these blood-thirsty killers!

Here's the link to the page with the pic directly below:
http://rtw.heavengames.com/rtw/info/units/rome

FYI, the last one is really, really tiny. Sorry about that. I wanted a close up of his face, but it didn't work out as planned. And after trying, I've found it doesn't even bring it up in a new page Hope this helps.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Wyrm please don't let a few party poopers stop you from having fun with this idea. Lets continue this thread. You have my full support.

 

[502nd PIR]

I find these units really awesome. May I recommend some type of Roman scout infantry? Not as much gear and either a smaller weapon or a sniper rifle. More complex camo (not that I don't like what you already have). Just some suggestions.