Ancient Illyria and Ethnic Albania as Playable Civilizations!

[Le Violater]

I'm really glad you liked it

Would you mind posting your experiences here with the mod? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? How could this be made better?

Also, if you don't mind, would you mind sharing where you're from? Albania is a big place

I am from tirana, i moved to FL when i was about 2. i am going back this summer. i really did like the way you did this mod and you have made me very proud of my country, my one problem is the music, after spending a few hours playing i always get really pissed (esspecially while losing to alexander).

How about you, where is it that you are from???

 

[Shqype]

Why "ethnic Albanian mod"? Why not just Albanian mod?
You didnt have enough city names, so you picked it from all neighbour countries or what?

Because I included ethnic Albanian cities with ethnic Albanian populations that have been there for centuries before they were carved up and given to other countries by Europe

I am from tirana, i moved to FL when i was about 2. i am going back this summer. i really did like the way you did this mod and you have made me very proud of my country, my one problem is the music, after spending a few hours playing i always get really pissed (esspecially while losing to alexander).

How about you, where is it that you are from???

What don't you like about the music?

Vet jam Malsor, and I was born + raised in New York. A din me fol Shqyp?

 

[Velja]

Because I included ethnic Albanian cities with ethnic Albanian populations that have been there for centuries before they were carved up and given to other countries by Europe

I know you includeed those cities, but I still dont know why. Every single nation could do the same, but nobody did - until now.

 

[Aranor]

I know you includeed those cities, but I still dont know why. Every single nation could do the same, but nobody did - until now.

Read what Shqype has written, The ethinic Albanian civ is based on a medievil time period when the Albanians were ruled by the Ottomans, before the powers of europe carved up the kingdom.

 

[Velja]

Read what Shqype has written, The ethinic Albanian civ is based on a medievil time period when the Albanians were ruled by the Ottomans, before the powers of europe carved up the kingdom.

More than half of those cities have never been under Albanian state, there just live many Albanians.

 

[Le Violater]

The music wasnt really that bad, it is just the only thing that i could critique. other than that why did you decide to use the name Gjergj Kastrioti instead of Skenderbeu.
i know how to speak but i forgot the skill of writing and i read at the level of a third grader . right now i am in the proccess of relearning. how about you, did your parents teach you to write or did you just teach youself? amazing, isnt it, finding another albanian, and of all places at a civ website!

 

[Shqype]

Read what Shqype has written, The ethinic Albanian civ is based on a medievil time period when the Albanians were ruled by the Ottomans, before the powers of europe carved up the kingdom.

Thanks Aranor, you got it right!

More than half of those cities have never been under Albanian state, there just live many Albanians.

Well, in other threads I've shown that to be false, and it even depends on what your interpretation of "state" is. I will not get into it again, just check out this post to see a picture of the Albanian territory that the Ottomans divided up into 4 vilayets for easier administrative purposes.

The music wasnt really that bad, it is just the only thing that i could critique. other than that why did you decide to use the name Gjergj Kastrioti instead of Skenderbeu.

Gjergj Kastrioti was his real name. It was his birth name, the name of his father and his family, and his ALBANIAN name. Skenderbeu isn't Albanian, it is derived from the name that the Turks gave him. Aj a kenë Arbnor e jo Turk! Prej Gjergj Kastriotit e marrim na emnin "Shqyptar."

i know how to speak but i forgot the skill of writing and i read at the level of a third grader . right now i am in the proccess of relearning. how about you, did your parents teach you to write or did you just teach youself?

Well, I could always teach you Although we have very different dialects, I'm sure it would still be meaningful for you to learn the way we speak from the northern Albanian mountains
As a child I spoke nothing but Albanian, but by the time school came around I pretty much replaced it with English. I began relearning a few years ago by reading and translating songs. Plus, I had my father to help me if I wasn't sure on something.

amazing, isnt it, finding another albanian, and of all places at a civ website!

Yea, it is pretty cool, but believe me, Albanians are everywhere! And they've had a larger impact on the world than you can imagine
In the United States the largest concentration of Albanians are obviously in New York, and next is Michigan. There is an Albanian festival every year and around 5000 attend, making it the largest gathering of Albanians in the United States. I have some video clips of songs and performances if you're interested

 

[Le Violater]

Well, I could always teach you Although we have very different dialects, I'm sure it would still be meaningful for you to learn the way we speak from the northern Albanian mountains
As a child I spoke nothing but Albanian, but by the time school came around I pretty much replaced it with English. I began relearning a few years ago by reading and translating songs. Plus, I had my father to help me if I wasn't sure on something.

yea, i was telling my dad and he called u a "fshatar". lol. yea it has not been that bad understanding you, but the way you say albania "Shqypni" was the one thing that i could not understand, Shqipëri is the way that i have known it, but i figured it out,it is cool to see different dialects.

Yea, it is pretty cool, but believe me, Albanians are everywhere! And they've had a larger impact on the world than you can imagine
In the United States the largest concentration of Albanians are obviously in New York, and next is Michigan. There is an Albanian festival every year and around 5000 attend, making it the largest gathering of Albanians in the United States. I have some video clips of songs and performances if you're interested

that is pretty awsome, could you post some stuff. aslo if you want i could send you the prefomance of that lady... (damn i forgot her name) who sang for albanai during eurovision.

 

[Shqype]

yea, i was telling my dad and he called u a "fshatar". lol.

Yes, that's an unfortunate side-effect of communism; southern Albanians were taught by Enver Hoxha to be anti-northern and consider them as only "katunars" (or "fshatars"), claiming they were nothing but unintelligent sheep-herders. Plus, their culture was by far the oldest and closest to the ancient Illyrian, since the inhabitants of these mountains were protected by their surroundings from outside influences. Their culture and way of life, like the tribal system they lived in, gave the southerners a reason to call them "backwards." This was all part of his campaign to persecute Malsors as "enemies of the people," since the communists could never control them, and since they provided the sole resistance to Enver Hoxha's group.

Enver Hoxha and the communists were one of the worst things ever to happen to Albania.

Regarding the dialect, Shqypni/Shqyptar are the original form and use of the word since the ~17th century. Over time it went to 'Shqiptar.' In the southern Tosk regions the language underwent what is called "rhotacism," in which the 'n' was change to an 'r.' That's why Shqipni => Shqiperi in the south.

In 1971 Enver Hoxha imposed his southern dialect on the rest of Albania by making it the official dialect of the country. I personally am not too fond of it, it is not a very accurate representation of the language, and it is too influenced by Greek and (even today) English. The dialects spoken in the mountains are amongst the oldest dialects spoken today in Albania.

The purest form of the Albanian language still in existance today is found in the writings of At Gjergj Fishta, the national poet of Albania, author of the Albanian national epic "Lahuta e Malcís." If you haven't heard of him it is because Enver Hoxha banned his books and attempted to discredit him completely. I have some excerpts from his writing:

Doli fjala neper dhè:
Njekso varzash kà n' Shqypni,
Qi per erz edhè per fè
T' rijt e jeten i bâjn fli.
Kshtû këndojn Orët palë e palë
Por, tue mârrë té mbramen fjalë,
Hylli i dritës nisi me dalë
E buzës s' malit drita agoi,At herë Orë edhè Drangoj
U çuen m'ajr t' gjith plima--plima,
Edhè u zhduken si vetima,
Tuj u gjetë aty nji filli,
Kû me u gjetë deshti se i cilli.

Spoiler :

Pêsë bajrakët, qi ka mirdita,
M' krep t' Rragamit neper prita
Kan zânë vend, nja trimi rrfeja:
N'zâ n' Shqypnikta per kah feja:
T' lèt kah kama e t' shpejtë kah dora,
Thonë, se kurr s' u â sht ligun Ora.
N' at log Zânash u ka pri
Nji i Gjo' Markajsh, djalë zotni,
Kaluer atit pullali,
Si hyll drite n' at Shqypnirenk bibë Doda aj êmni i ti.
Por, zotni, se shka me kênë!
Ka rrâ Shkodra turk e i kshtênë:
Turq beglerë e T' kshtêrë reshperë,
Veshë e mbathë si Kapitana
Me çakçirë e me fistâna:
Me tagâna e me shejshâna,
Me martina, me calina,
Me dumbare e alltipatllare,
E me pare e besë shqyptare.

Spoiler :

Lum e lum per t' Madhin Zot!
Ç' kà shkrfë sande gjith ky mot,
Gjith ky mot e kjo vetimë,
Gjith kjo gjàmë e bumbullimë,
Thue po shâmen qiell e dhè.
Kà lshue prrue, po, e kà lshue shè;
Rreh shtergata, shungullon era;
Ushtojn malet, me t' hi mundera;
Kaq nji mot kà shkrefë n' malci:
Shka do t' jèt, vall, nuk e di.

Check this out, and click on the picture at the top entitled "Albanian Heroes" for some general, basic information on some of them

Also, here are some links to video clips from the annual Albanian festival:
Grupi Bashkimi Kombtar - Bjeshkët e Këlmendit
Grupi Bashkimi Kombtar - Kangë e Shpirt Ty Nanë T'i Fali
Vallja e Shqiponjave

Enjoy

 

[Velja]

Well, in other threads I've shown that to be false, and it even depends on what your interpretation of "state" is. I will not get into it again, just check out this post to see a picture of the Albanian territory that the Ottomans divided up into 4 vilayets for easier administrative purposes.

There again... "Albanian terrirory" under Ottoman empire . That is Ottoman terrirory. During that time you didnt have your state, believe me.
One more thing: Ottomans divided their territory the way they liked, they didnt divide it like: here - these villayets are Serbian, these are Greek... You of course already know this and just pretend to be naive.

I just wonder why dont you admit you are such a nazi.

 

[Shqype]

Give up already.

 

[Tunch Khan]

One more thing: Ottomans divided their territory the way they liked, they didnt divide it like: here - these villayets are Serbian, these are Greek...

Umm.. we like that. I whish we could still do it the way we did in the past, lol, but today we have democracy unfortunately.

 

[Velja]

Umm.. we like that. I whish we could still do it the way we did in the past, lol, but today we have democracy unfortunately.

Well it's true.
OK, Tunch Khan, I know you are a Turk, and I know about "special relation" between Turks and Albanians(I think it's similar to Serbo-Greek relation), but can you please be objective now and tell me what you think about Shqype's little theory of "4 "Albanian" villayets", and his city-list.

 

[Shqype]

Originally Posted by Tunch Khan
Umm.. we like that. I whish we could still do it the way we did in the past, lol, but today we have democracy unfortunately.
Well it's true.
OK, Tunch Khan, I know you are a Turk, and I know about "special relation" between Turks and Albanians(I think it's similar to Serbo-Greek relation), but can you please be objective now and tell me what you think about Shqype's little theory of "4 "Albanian" villayets", and his city-list.

There is no "special relation" between Turks and Albanians. They have been enemies for centuries. The only "special relation" is between Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks that share a common religion. While this may have been an issue centuries ago, it is not today because Turks aren't a problem for Albanians anymore.

It is not a theory, it is history and fact. Montenegro's territory doubled when Europe gave it Albanian land in 1878, and Serbia gained Kosova a couple of times: not only when it was awarded by Europe around the time of the creation of the modern-day state of Albania, but also when the anti-Albanian communist dictator of Albania "sold" it to Yugoslavia.

 

[Velja]

There is no "special relation" between Turks and Albanians. They have been enemies for centuries. The only "special relation" is between Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks that share a common religion. While this may have been an issue centuries ago, it is not today because Turks aren't a problem for Albanians anymore.

It is not a theory, it is history and fact. Montenegro's territory doubled when Europe gave it Albanian land in 1878, and Serbia gained Kosova a couple of times: not only when it was awarded by Europe around the time of the creation of the modern-day state of Albania, but also when the anti-Albanian communist dictator of Albania "sold" it to Yugoslavia.

My point is - you cannot claim all the Balcan territory(just before the 1st Balcan war) that wasn't under Serbian,Montenegrin,Greek or Bulgar state to be Albanian.
It was Turkish, only Turkish, and nobody's but the Turkish.
These countries (unlike Albania) had some level of independence even before 1st Balcan war, and had some territory. But if they had their full territory, Balcan war would never happen(the way it did), they would just declare full independece, and defend themselves.

 

[Sideral]

Umm.. we like that. I whish we could still do it the way we did in the past, lol, but today we have democracy unfortunately.

Hmm... "Unfortunately" you say... Should I send this thread to some E.U. officers I know???
Joking right?

If not joking, could you cut us off some territory from the Constantinople (Istanbul) area and Smyrni (Izmir)? I know a lot of my fellow Greeks who would be happy with this!

Take care and try to be more polite to each other!!! Can't we have ONE BALKAN spirit???

Cheers to all!

 

[Shqype]

My point is - you cannot claim all the Balcan territory(just before the 1st Balcan war) that wasn't under Serbian,Montenegrin,Greek or Bulgar state to be Albanian.
It was Turkish, only Turkish, and nobody's but the Turkish.
These countries (unlike Albania) had some level of independence even before 1st Balcan war, and had some territory. But if they had their full territory, Balcan war would never happen(the way it did), they would just declare full independece, and defend themselves.

I don't claim all Balkan territory. I claim Balkan territory that was inhabited by the ancestors of the Albanians before the other Balkan nationalities existed, BUT, only that type of Balkan territory that has averted assimilation and has remained ethnically Albanian today, despite the assimilation attempts by the governments of these modern-day states. Land that was included in the kingdoms of Illyria, Arbnia, and Gjergj Kastrioti's Albania when he saved Christian Europe from the Turks.

I can name my grandfathers back to the 15th century, and you want to tell me the land they lived in wasn't Albanian? Please.

 

[Velja]

I can name my grandfathers back to the 15th century, and you want to tell me the land they lived in wasn't Albanian? Please.

Thats exactly what I'm saying.

 

[Shqype]

My whole argument isn't based on that. That only supports my argument. History and demographics is what my argument is based on.

 

[Tunch Khan]

OK, Tunch Khan, I know you are a Turk, and I know about "special relation" between Turks and Albanians(I think it's similar to Serbo-Greek relation), but can you please be objective now and tell me what you think about Shqype's little theory of "4 "Albanian" villayets", and his city-list.

Ok, the "Four Albanian Vilayets" as you are asking were actually four vilayets, no different than any other vilayet; other than having a significant Albanian population. This however does not necessarily mean that the Albanians were always a majority in all of the four mentioned vilayets. Manastir (today; Bitola in Republic of Macedonia) for example had transformed into a busy Turkish trade city in the 14th Century and even as late as 1950's the city had twice as much Turks than Albanians, but they were both a minority now due to Slavization enforced by Serbia (and Serbian led Yugoslavia later on) starting with the city's conquest in 1912.

But the cities used by Shqype have at one point in history been predominantly Albanian I believe and therefore I don't see it as a major problem. I haven't checked them one by one, but none of those cities bite my ears. I would have probably objected the list had I seen Salonika or Belgrade or Cetinje in that list, but it doesn't bother me as is. Perhaps you should approach from a city by city perspective if you have certain concerns and we can all learn from it.

There is no "special relation" between Turks and Albanians. They have been enemies for centuries. The only "special relation" is between Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks that share a common religion. While this may have been an issue centuries ago, it is not today because Turks aren't a problem for Albanians anymore..

Well I know you are not too fond of Turks, but there "is" a "special" relationship between Turks and Albanians to my knowledge. I know I can't be impartial on this as I am part Albanian myself, however, I have been to Albania and when I introduced myself as a 'Turk', I got a lot of "special" attention from the locals and I have observed many Albanians receive similar attention when they visit Turkey. Albanians have always played a major part in Ottoman life and their loyalty has earned them a rightful, respectable "favored" status within the empire which lasted even up to this day in modern Turkish Republic. We don't have the same bond with other muslim nations like Arabs and Persians or Afghanis, but we do have a similar (lighter) relation with Bosniaks.

Hmm... "Unfortunately" you say... Should I send this thread to some E.U. officers I know???
Joking right?

What are you going to say? That you know a Turk who doesn't like democracy? I would probably prefer an "elitist technocracy". I don't like the idea "rule of people" when we live in a country where I don't agree with the majority. What if one day the majority decides to live in an Islamic regime like Iran? Or even worse, what if the majority is not even Turkish? (Within the next 25-30 years the projected population estimates according to declared ethnicities; the Turks are becoming a minority in Turkey.)

If not joking, could you cut us off some territory from the Constantinople (Istanbul) area and Smyrni (Izmir)? I know a lot of my fellow Greeks who would be happy with this!

Uhm, yes... sure "... would you like Wallachia and Moldova along with them?"