Large Map and New Civilizations are now playable

[AOS9001]

According to my research, the only civs running manorialism are the civs with lots of unimproved land (France, HRE, Russia, with Spain, Poland, and Sweden sometimes joining in). Otherwise it's caste system in Europe. You'd think huge civs like Turkey and Mughals would want to use manorialism, but no, they stick with slavery. It seems to me manorialism is a niche civic for big European civs without many resources.

And yes, vassalage isn't useful, in the AI's eyes. The only civ consistently running it is England. Everyone else runs citizenship, which builds those vital core buildings like markets and libraries faster. That's so much more broadly useful than vassalage's units produced with . I pretty much only run citizenship or theocracy ( from buildings I was going to construct anyways? Sign me up!) until individualism or central planning is unlocked.

Manorialism and vassalage are civics that need another look, I agree with that. I think bureaucracy is fine as it is, though admittedly it's a very strong combination with regulated trade (and national college on top of that). It's definitely a huge boon for civs with a prime city like Portugal or Netherlands that's going to be carrying the civ. I don't think that's a bad thing. Maybe national college should be put behind Academia instead of Education, and maybe regulated trade should be behind Finance instead of Guilds? Regulated trade and bureaucracy are more associated with the late middle ages/renaissance than high middle ages in my opinion, anyway.

 

[triplebassist]

You'd think huge civs like Turkey and Mughals would want to use manorialism, but no, they stick with slavery.

This is probably related to the stability boost Muslim civs get for running slavery. I know basically the only time I run it after the Classical Era is if my state religion is Islam and I don't have a ton of plantations in a food-poor area.

 

[RustyBrick]

This is probably related to the stability boost Muslim civs get for running slavery. I know basically the only time I run it after the Classical Era is if my state religion is Islam and I don't have a ton of plantations in a food-poor area.

Are there any other stability boosts from religions paired with civics?

 

[Bickerstaff]

Are there any other stability boosts from religions paired with civics?

Some. Here's the code for religion interactions with civics.

if iStateReligion == iHinduism:
if iCasteSystem in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 3

elif iStateReligion == iConfucianism:
if iBureaucracy in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 3

elif iStateReligion in [iZoroastrianism, iOrthodoxy, iCatholicism, iProtestantism]:
if iSlavery in civics: iCivicEraTechStability -= 3

elif iStateReligion == iIslam:
if iSlavery in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 2

elif iStateReligion == iBuddhism:
if iMonasticism in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 2

elif iStateReligion == iConfucianism:
if iIsolationism in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 3

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Off-the-Cuff Idea for Vassalage: Bring back Tributaries Capital Commerce per Subject City effect?

While were on the topic of necromancy: How about the same for Colonialism? Colony maintenance reduction is kinda meh. As a crude example I loaded a Netherlands game from 1802. With 15 populous colonies (with Jails), Colonialism saves me a whopping 16 in maintenance.

 

[Dracosolon]

Vassalage could also get a boost for Orchards, there are a lot of them in Europe and the Middle-East.

 

[a pen-dragon]

Some. Here's the code for religion interactions with civics.

if iStateReligion == iHinduism:
if iCasteSystem in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 3

elif iStateReligion == iConfucianism:
if iBureaucracy in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 3

elif iStateReligion in [iZoroastrianism, iOrthodoxy, iCatholicism, iProtestantism]:
if iSlavery in civics: iCivicEraTechStability -= 3

elif iStateReligion == iIslam:
if iSlavery in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 2

elif iStateReligion == iBuddhism:
if iMonasticism in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 2

elif iStateReligion == iConfucianism:
if iIsolationism in civics: iCivicEraTechStability += 3

A logics question:

Since all these conditions are written as elifs, does that not mean that the last condition can not actually be reached, due to the first elif iStateReligion == iConfucianism: being True and further else/elifs not being triggered?

 

[SultanRedSnake]

According to my research, the only civs running manorialism are the civs with lots of unimproved land (France, HRE, Russia, with Spain, Poland, and Sweden sometimes joining in). Otherwise it's caste system in Europe. You'd think huge civs like Turkey and Mughals would want to use manorialism, but no, they stick with slavery. It seems to me manorialism is a niche civic for big European civs without many resources.

And yes, vassalage isn't useful, in the AI's eyes. The only civ consistently running it is England. Everyone else runs citizenship, which builds those vital core buildings like markets and libraries faster. That's so much more broadly useful than vassalage's units produced with . I pretty much only run citizenship or theocracy ( from buildings I was going to construct anyways? Sign me up!) until individualism or central planning is unlocked.

Manorialism and vassalage are civics that need another look, I agree with that. I think bureaucracy is fine as it is, though admittedly it's a very strong combination with regulated trade (and national college on top of that). It's definitely a huge boon for civs with a prime city like Portugal or Netherlands that's going to be carrying the civ. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I whipped-up an amateurish, quite unprofessional trial (Respect to your craft, Dr. Spready McSheets).

#1 - Whacked Caste System's Free Health - nearly erased it from Europe, Mali and Kongo in particular stuck with Slavery, even some canonical Caste civs, went Slavery.
#2 - Left Caste System alone, doubled Manorialism Bonus: mostly back to square one
# 3 - Nerfed CS, Buffed Manoralism - Civs that formerly chose CS over MNR now favor MNR (mostly Europe), otherwise same as #1.

At the very least I think I've been able to demonstrate that the CS shenanigans can be easily addressed whatever form that might take. Now on to poking the Citizenship monster.

Maybe national college should be put behind Academia instead of Education, and maybe regulated trade should be behind Finance instead of Guilds? Regulated trade and bureaucracy are more associated with the late middle ages/renaissance than high middle ages in my opinion, anyway.

Concur.

 

[banzay13]

Is it intended for South America too?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Ah crap I just realized I'm committing a heinous thread violation. Will repost in Civics Thread.

 

[banzay13]

Still no one settle in this areas

Spoiler :

And Canada settle cites wierd

Spoiler :

And talking about Central planning - now DoC is a World of victorious Communism
21 civs run CP, Brasil - Public wellfare, Pakistan, Turkey, France, Russia, Iran, Dutch,Portugal and England (but they was Socialist too for a long time) run Free Enterprise

 

[a pen-dragon]

Played a game as Polynesia, and that should not happen:

Spoiler :

In the replay I did not notice anything too awkward happening in the mediterranean, egypt lost its capital to assyria or phoenicia, but soon recaptured it. Later everyone only got conquered by the romans, as usual.

Has anybody else noticed the great lighthouse not being built?

 

[banzay13]

Played a game as Polynesia, and that should not happen:

Spoiler :

In the replay I did not notice anything too awkward happening in the mediterranean, egypt lost its capital to assyria or phoenicia, but soon recaptured it. Later everyone only got conquered by the romans, as usual.

Has anybody else noticed the great lighthouse not being built?

You got very very rare event. You need to do this on new map, like some players did it on old map:
1. Domination victory
2. Space race victory
by Polinesia

 

[Dracosolon]

IIRC sometimes some of the Classical era pagan wonders end up not being built before Orthodoxy spreads or the relevant civs collapse, meaning that on the 3000 BC scenario you occasionally can build those as the Maya or whoever else.

 

[triplebassist]

IIRC sometimes some of the Classical era pagan wonders end up not being built before Orthodoxy spreads or the relevant civs collapse, meaning that on the 3000 BC scenario you occasionally can build those as the Maya or whoever else.

This is extra true when Greece goes wild on tech and founds Orthodoxy in the 3rd century BC. If that reliably gets delayed by ~10 turns we'll probably see those wonders built a lot more.

 

[banzay13]

Anyone was able complete Congo's 1UHV?
It's 1700AD and i don't have any religion in my cites. Even Islam disappeared quick from Kilwa. I'm running Syncretism

 

[AOS9001]

I have the same problem with Catholicism not spreading, even with open borders with Europeans.

 

[banzay13]

I saw in some modmod thread, it's possible to force, then collapse to specific civ (Native, as i rmb)
so, could it be used in Americas (if before conquered events)?

 

[SultanRedSnake]

EDIT: I almost definitely did not understand the post so disregard the following for purposes of the discussion. I'll still leave it here as some free WB tricks for the kiddos.

I saw in some modmod thread, it's possible to force, then collapse to specific civ (Native, as i rmb)
so, could it be used in Americas (if before conquered events)?
View attachment 712220

*If* I understand, you want:

• Aztecs to collapse
• Former Aztec and/or all area cities to change ownership to Natives

If so, the answer is Yes and here is how:
Start in Map Mode. Select the tile of an Aztec city, this will take you to the Plot Data screen. In the upper left corner, you'll see Montezuma in the drop-down box. Expand the box and scroll to bottom of list; you'll see four Barbarian entries. Natives are the third entry (or second from bottom). Poof! City flips to natives. Repeat for all desired cities. Any civ collapses instantly once their last city has been flipped. Indy and Barb units can get expelled nearby so check the area and move or delete them.