Anno Domini - a full mod from R8XFT

[onedreamer]

Simplistic or not, it's true. The ruling stratum of the Ptolemaean kingdom was separated from the Egyptian majority of their subjects by differences of culture, language, and ethnic identity.

Incidenally, that's a quite unremarkable situation from an historical perspective.

That's not true, there have been loads of cases like this throughout history. Especially in ancient history with all migration and invasions from nomadic people and not. We all know that from such migrations originated many cultures, and many others were even destroyed. Still, the cultures that originated from these migrations are not considered to be originary of the distant and far lands where the nomads came from in the first place. It's true that Cleo didn't have ancestors in the first dynasties of Egypt rules, but this doesn't make her greek. People, cultures, nations are not still, they evolve. Take the english language, it has originated from the influences of several other languages, still it's considered to be born in England (or G.B.). Cleopatra's dinasty ruled in Egypt for 300 years, for this reason we can very well consider her egyptian, even if in a distinct dinasty with its own language, culture, etc. Was she a great leader ? Is she worthy to be representative of the whole Egyptian history ? These are other considerations. According to such considerations that have arised, Ramesses II would also not be an appropriate leader for Egypt, because the modern egyptian culture is completely different from that of the time he lived in. It would be almost impossible to find a leader that can represent well 5.000 years or more of History, because like I said above, culture is not something still.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Guys, please can we leave the debate there ?

I've posted a new thread to ask whether or not people would prefer me to do Anno Domini or new leaderheads. Please stop by and vote .

 

[Plotinus]

Excellent! Well, I said in the other thread you should focus on the mod, but perhaps you should polish off that one LH first before you really get down to it...

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

OK, so it's a while since I've updated this thread. Basically, I've taken time out from this mod to reflect upon it and finish off some other bits. Now I'm back to this. I'm on hols from work this week and therefore aim to relax by moving this mod on quite a bit.

I've come to the decision that I'm not happy at all with the fourth era. A lot of the techs are in there to make the numbers up IMHO. I could say that about some other techs in other eras. Also, playing the game, the pace of the first era is too slow, especially when you can't build roads straight away. I believe I could squeeze the techs I want to keep into two-and-a-half eras and move the timeframe on a bit. I want it to be pre-industrial still, possibly ending the game around Medieval times, but I'm not sure. The way I'm thinking is that Feudalism will be there in era four, but I don't think we'll go as far as Gunpowder and the Printing Press. I'd use some techs from the Rood and the Dragon I think...

The next thing I need to decide is about leaders and civs. Basically, there's no problem with keeping the ones so far....but it gives more scope to bring Africa and Native America into play. What I'm aiming for is the epic game, but based on pre-Gunpowder techs and units. What could be interesting - but lead to a very big download - is era-specific leaderheads - era one being your basic pre-500BC ancient era, era two being around 500BC-200AD, era three covering from about 200AD through to the Dark Ages and era four being feudalistic/early Medieval times. The advisors could follow the same ages. Obviously, Anno Domini is already destined for 3D downloads!! One issue with this (in terms of the actual artwork) is that props are limited, so I'd probably re-use a few (and maybe give them different colours/textures) and to keep the download size down a bit, I might do around 16-20 civs instead of the full 31 complement - but there's always a chance of an expansion! It might be that people feel the thing to do is to have single-era heads...

In terms of units, I'm going for lots of flavour, but one UU per civ. I'll keep a similar distribution of units that the epic game has - ie, the ancient era will have an Att 1 Def 1 Mov 1 unit to start with, and early techs will lead to Att 2 Def 1 Mov 1/ Att 1 Def 2 Mov 1 units and so on. Making the game stretch over a longer time-frame and introducing Native America plus other African nations will give more variety and meaningful wonders IMHO.

Whilst this will remain a sole project, I'd welcome any thoughts anyone has. I'm really going to "go for it" this week, so I expect much to be done .

 

[Plotinus]

Sounds great stuff. Era-specific LHs would be great. I don't mind big downloads, but I have broadband! It would be interesting to see era-specific LHs that don't go to modern times. I don't think we've seen that before.

If you want ideas for social/religious/scientific/philosophical sort of techs for the Dark Ages and Middle Ages, I might be able to give you a hand, as you might have guessed!

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Sounds great stuff. Era-specific LHs would be great. I don't mind big downloads, but I have broadband! It would be interesting to see era-specific LHs that don't go to modern times. I don't think we've seen that before.

All the more reason to do it then. I noticed that a few downloads, like Tjedge1's Mystera mod have been around 400-500MB - and that hasn't put people off. If there were 16 era-specific leaderheads, that would be around 300MB, possibly about 100-120MB on the units I want in. The rest would only take up 10-20MB, so it would be at most a 450MB download. Massive, yes, but I hope worth it. I'm hoping that even if people don't like the mod (though of course I'm aiming for people to love it) they can at least feel that the download hasn't been wasted as the leaderheads won't be available elsewhere - at least not straight away.

If you want ideas for social/religious/scientific/philosophical sort of techs for the Dark Ages and Middle Ages, I might be able to give you a hand, as you might have guessed!

Do tell......

 

[Snorken]

What Plotinus said, basically...

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I'd like to have approximately 15-20 techs in era four. The following are strong candidates:
Feudalism - allows government type
Monotheism - allows church improvement (+3 people happy)
Theology - allows wonder that increases effects of the church
Chainmail - allows medieval infantry
Medieval defence/Pike (I'd prefer another title) - allows pikeman
Chivalry - allows knight
Minting - allows a small wonder that does "treasury earns 5%"
Banking/Economics - allows bank or similar improvement that's a +50% trade
Navigation/Ocean faring - allows ships that can cross oceans - possibly for the first time in the game?
Naval supremacy - allows an attacking ship that can bombard land
Astronomy/Celestial knowledge - allows science wonder
University - allows science improvement
Agricultural revolution - enables irrigation without fresh water and reveals new bonus tiles on the map
Metallurgy - allows the coastal fortress

 

[Plotinus]

Do tell......

Well, depends what you want and where the mod would end. Things that leap to mind (my mind anyway) might include the Truce of God; Papal Authority, leading to Papal Monarchy; Ecclesiastical Reform; Monastic Rule; Mendicant Orders; Scholasticism; and so on, all of which could have associated improvements or Wonders. Social developments might include Primogeniture; Vernacular... It depends on what you want to do!

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I want to end up just before Gunpowder's invented. Chivalry would possibly be about the most advanced tech in the game.

The techs you mentioned sound great, but I don't want to become too Euro-centric with them (he says, having Chivalry in there ) as I don't want to alienate the Native American and African culture groups. Perhaps if we had a couple of those you suggested, a Native-American-type tech and an African-type tech? I don't want to go down the route of separate tech trees though.

 

[Plotinus]

That's true - I was thinking a bit Eurocentrically. Something I try not to do... However, bear in mind that quite a few of the Christian-type ones apply to Nubia and Ethiopia as well, and arguably Egypt - even after the Muslim conquest, the Patriarch of Alexandria remained the nominal head of all African Christians. Nubia built remarkable and massive cathedrals in the early Middle Ages, which all got destroyed, of course. Ethiopia also had feudalism and chivalry (and knights) much like Europe as well.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Another option for leaderheads, which would mean I could have 31 civs in the mix and still reduce the overall download size would be to have two leaderhead eras - one for ancient/empire stage, one for dark ages/medieval.

 

[Silica_Pathways]

Another option for leaderheads, which would mean I could have 31 civs in the mix and still reduce the overall download size would be to have two leaderhead eras - one for ancient/empire stage, one for dark ages/medieval.

Why to reduce download size ? It's over 1gb or what ? Screw those with slow connection, they're losers anyway

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Why to reduce download size ? It's over 1gb or what ? Screw those with slow connection, they're losers anyway

I'm trying to reduce the amount of work for me as well ....

Two versions of the leaderhead over four eras seems ok to me - after all, we were going to have a single-era leaderhead for Anno Domini when it stretched from 1500BC-500AD. I think single-era would be too stretched for going into Medieval times, but dual-era seems about right to me.


EDIT: Thinking about it, having dual-era leaderheads means that I could rope in some Fireaxis leaderheads for some of the civs. Obviously I couldn't do that over 4 eras, as they'd be in industrial and modern attire. Whilst I'll be doing most of the leaderheads myself, I'd more than likely draft the following:
Hannibal - as himself!
Gilgamesh - as Ashurbanipal of Assyria
Shaka - as another African leader - maybe Ghana?
Mao - as leader of the Qin

Smoke Jaguar, Brennus and Wang Kon might get a look-in as well .

 

[mitsho]

R8XFT, there is a Ashurbanipal-leaderhead being made by shiro now. It is 4-era, so you might want to take a look at that.

I am for one leaderhead for two eras, cause I don't have the fastest comp.

mfG mitsho

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

R8XFT, there is a Ashurbanipal-leaderhead being made by shiro now. It is 4-era, so you might want to take a look at that.

I am for one leaderhead for two eras, cause I don't have the fastest comp.

mfG mitsho

Thanks, but I only want to use leaderheads made by myself and Fireaxis in my mod.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I've received a few comments about Cleopatra's hair. The prop I used wasn't easy to do anything different than I did. However, I've changed the prop, modified some of her facial features, et voila!

The one on the left is the original Cleopatra, the one on the right is my updated version. Comments?

 

[Plotinus]

Shaka - as another African leader - maybe Ghana?

But you did Dinga Cisse yourself, and he's fine! I don't think Shaka looks right for Ghana at all.

As for Cleopatra - I must say that personally I *far* prefer the original hair. It looks just right to me. The new one looks like she's been to some ghastly trendy hair boutique...

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

But you did Dinga Cisse yourself, and he's fine! I don't think Shaka looks right for Ghana at all.

I did do Dinga Cisse, but it was one of my early leaderheads, so it'd have to be redone IMHO. Shaka for Ghana was a mere suggestion.

As for Cleopatra - I must say that personally I *far* prefer the original hair. It looks just right to me. The new one looks like she's been to some ghastly trendy hair boutique...

The only thing with the original hair is that it looks like it's been combed with a lamb chop (superb Yorkshire expression ). Personally, I think I need to find something inbetween the two images for the hair, though I do prefer the newer face.

 

[mitsho]

I second Plotinus, the first hairdo is better imo, caus it looks for me really egyptian. It's sort of that prototype clichée one has of Egyptian slave workers (the hair). Or maybe I'm just too much influenced by Asterix (where Cleo looks similar to your one ).

mfG mitsho