Anno Domini - a full mod from R8XFT

[JaseEmtP]

I do like this new cleo, not that she looked bad before. I do enjoy your work. But, the longer hair is a keeper for sure

 

[Plotinus]

That hairstyle - in both its forms - is excellent. The face looks very good too. Great work!

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thanks to the pair of you !!

I'm glad you like Cleopatra. Right, I could do with some new advances. I hadn't realised how flavour advances worked until today. I thought you had to have all advances showing on the tech tree - but it's not like that. So I'm all in favour of flavour! (A bit of a tongue-twister, that !)

How I would like it to work, advance-wise, is for there to be non-era bonus techs for each of the traits, each of the civs and each of the culture groups. At the start of the game, each civ would be given, as non-tradeable bonus techs, the two techs for the traits, the one for the civ and the one for the culture, which will lead to civ-specific, trait-specific and culture-specific advances. They'd be able, for example, to trade trait-specific techs with other nations sharing that trait, but no-one else. I'd like wonders/buildings/units associated with each, so the following works (and these are only examples which can be changed):
1. Instead of "Horseback riding" for everyone, only European civs get it; maybe other alternatives could be India/Siam/Khmer getting "Elephant riding", Native America getting something like "Tracking" which allows a unit that can travel as fast as the equivalent European units, Africa having a similar tech to NA allowing the same type of thing, Middle Eastern civs could have "Camel riding." Perhaps we can introduce horses later on for the other culture groups. Maybe the initial Horseback-type techs lead to units that don't require horses as a resource, but the next level of horsemanship puts horses on the map, making it required?
2. There are wonders/small wonders that can only be built by certain groups - for example, instead of the Great Lighthouse, why not have the lighthouse as a small wonder for all seafaring civs? Instead of the Great Library being a wonder up for grabs for all civs, why not let just Scientific civs contest for it?

The overall plan is to make it so that your choice of civilization to play isn't just based on traits and UU.

Please post your comments .

 

[Plotinus]

Sounds good. There's a tutorial in the Tutorials section on how to do civ-/culture-specific techs which tells you all you need to know. Be aware that you may run into slight difficulties if you are going to make techs such as Horse-Riding culture-specific. If you make Horses visible with Horse-Riding, this will mean that civs that can't research that tech can never see that resource. That may not be a problem (although it would mean they can't trade Horses either) but it's as well to be aware of it. If it is a problem, one solution is to use multiple resources with the same name, or another is to make the resource visible at the start of the game and not dependent on a tech.

Now, the main question is how extensive you want the culture-specific techs to be - that is, what proportion of the tech tree will be like this? Remember that if you are making a multi-era mod, as you are, any culture-specific techs must be non-essential for era advancement, so they can't form important "links" within the tech tree - rather, they should be optional "branches" sticking off it.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thanks for mentioning about the resources - that's why I'd said in the previous post about the flavour techs not having resources attached to them and the next level of horsemanship (in the example) would have the horses resource attached.

In terms of how far to take the flavoured techs, I'd say probably about 20-30% of techs. There'll be about 20 techs per era, with about 4-6 techs flavoured. Maybe . I'm guessing there! I certainly want to flavour the techs that don't fit at all with certain civs, but replace them with something else that won't leave them at a disadvantage. An example of this is that Chivalry's in there for the Europeans and leads to Knights, but this wouldn't be appropriate for other cultures, though maybe, for example, the Native Americans could get another tech, such as "Mounted Warfare," that leads to the Mounted Warrior, a unit comparable to the Knight (in this mod).

Religion is another concept that would need to be flavoured, much in the same way that Rhye has done. It was seeing how he'd done this that lead me down the path of flavoured advances, so cheers Rhye !!

I guess that I need to make darned sure which Civs are in the game before I start flavouring to make it easier to flavour. I kind of want to use all 31 civs, but for ease might go for around the 20 mark, with the possibility of an expansion later. I bet I don't though - I'm bound to be influenced to make it up to 31 civs to include as many as possible .

I'll probably now split the culture groups as such:
Asian group - to include India, Siam and Khmer?
European/Med group - to include Rome, Greece, Gauls, Iceni, Vikings, Visigoths, Anglo-Saxons?
Native American group - to include Cherokee, Sioux and Toltecs?
African group - to include Nok, Mali, Ghana and Kongo?
Middle East group - to include Egypt, Israel and Morocco?

The only thing I'm disappointed about with the above is that I haven't included the Qin....maybe put it in the Asian group and not worry too much about the city graphics?

If we do go up to 31 civs (what do I mean "if" - I know I'm going to be influenced that way), Teuta is waiting in the wings for Illyria - I guess I'd like to include her - Nubia, Troy, Picts, Assyrians, Babylonians, Celts, Brigantians - they're all possibilities . Oh, and I forgot the Carthaginians. I'd like them in the mix. The Huns too.

Please give me your suggestions - but don't anyone tell me to loose the Iceni - Boudicca's the most popular leaderhead I've ever done!

One word to you fabulous unit makers - please can someone do a settler/worker for Africa ? I've actually had a thought about the settler though - I could maybe use the Shaka unit supplied with PTW, having the fidget animation as the settle animation. I could probably do the same with the Hiawatha unit to turn that into a Native American settler. What do you think?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Here's the list I think I might go with for 31 civs (and please, no more arguements about whether Egypt should be in the Euro/Med group or the Middle-East group, it's been argued in this thread already; Carthage is argueably in the wrong culture group too, but I want it there for now at least). I've put in which leaderhead I'm planning to use for each, although, of course, there will be some name changes!
The civs are, in some part, personal preferences. I've used eight of the Fireaxis leaderheads to ease the workload (and therefore get the mod finished quicker).

Africa
Ethiopia - I've done Candace
Ghana - My original Nok chap from this thread, modified for Ghana
Kongo - My new Nzinga
Mali - Update my Mansa Musa leaderhead
Nok - Fireaxis Shaka leaderhead
Nubia - I'm doing Queen Aqaluga, previewed in this thread

Asia
Huns - Update my Hun leaderhead
India - I'm doing Porus - preview in this thread
Japan - Fireaxis Tokugawa leaderhead
Qin - Fireaxis Mao leaderhead
Siam - Update Suriyothai

Mediteranean/European
Anglo-Saxons - I've done Hengist and updated him
Brigantians - Cartimandua
Gauls - Fireaxis Brennus leaderhead
Greece - I think I'll use Pericles - seen in this thread
Iceni - The one and only Boudicca
Illyria - Teuta
Rome - Trajan, as seen here
Scots - My Malcolm II leaderhead (slight update required)
Troy - I've done Hector
Vikings - Might use Ragnar; I'd prefer to do a new one
Visigoths - I did Alaric; I should update this

Middle East
Assyria - Fireaxis Gilgamesh leaderhead
Carthage - Fireaxis Hannibal leaderhead
Egypt - You've seen the new Cleopatra
Israel - I've done David, but will update it. I might use Joshua, previewed here
Morocco - I've done Al-Mansour, but will update it

Native America
Cherokee - I've done Nanye-hi
Nez Perce - Fireaxis Hiawatha leaderhead
Sioux - I've done Rain-in-the face
Toltecs - Fireaxis Smoke Jaguar or my Toltec leaderhead

 

[RedAlert]

I like the idea of adding some Native American civs, but the combining of mediterrenean and european culture groups will call for a re-doing of city graphics (which is perfectly fine if that's what you want, don't get me wrong)

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I like the idea of adding some Native American civs, but the combining of mediterrenean and european culture groups will call for a re-doing of city graphics (which is perfectly fine if that's what you want, don't get me wrong)

I was planning to use those that you'd already done....unless you're still up for straggling them over four eras!!

EDIT: The above list of Civs has had a change already!! I've got to have the Franks in, with Charlemagne as the leader, so that replaces the Visigoths. I'm also unsure about the choice of Native American civs....

 

[Snorken]

Most of the stuff you've written sounds pretty good!
I hope you'll make a new Viking/Scandinavian leaderhead... Ragnar looks a little crappy...

 

[RedAlert]

I was planning to use those that you'd already done....unless you're still up for straggling them over four eras!!

EDIT: The above list of Civs has had a change already!! I've got to have the Franks in, with Charlemagne as the leader, so that replaces the Visigoths. I'm also unsure about the choice of Native American civs....

I'm up for just about anything, no problem

Here's the checklist so far (previous to the change in culture groups), each one comes with four eras:

Mid East - done
African - done
European - done
Mediterrenean - nearly done
Asian - to be done

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

RedAlert, that sounds fantastic!! Thanks a lot!! I'm sorry to mess you about with the change in culture groups, but Anno Domini has evolved to something different to my original plans. Therefore, I'll be looking for a Euro/Mediterranean mix and a Native American/MesoAmerican one.

I've realised something about the flavour techs. If I do it so that there's trait-specific advances, there will be clashes - for example, if Masonry branches off to Lighthouse Building for seafaring civs, Epic Works for industrious civs, Temple Construction for religious civs (and so on for an advance for each trait), then what happens to those with with seafaring and industrious? Alternatively, if I were only to have an advance for one trait branching off from Masonry, each civ not possessing that trait would have an arrow leading to a blank space and I wouldn't want that.

Fortunately, I've thought of a solution. Each civ still has two traits - but it has a primary trait and a secondary trait. The primary trait has all the advantages of that trait plus it gets the advances on the tech tree. The secondary trait still has the normal advantages of the trait, but doesn't get anything from the tech tree. There'll only be probably one trait-specific advance per era anyhow.

Therefore the four free advances for each civ (all of which are "era-none" and non-tradeable) will be as follows:
1. Primary trait
2. Culture group
3. Sub-culture group - eg within the Euro/Med group, splitting this into Celtic, Mediterranean and European groups
4. Religious tendancies - ok, I'm copying Rhye's idea, but it's a good one !

Your thoughts?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Native America
I'm a little stuck about Native America in this timeframe - which ends c1200AD.
We could definately have the Maya and the Toltecs. The epic game has the Maya, so there's no problem with info; there's sufficient info on the Toltecs to get a decent city list - and Spirit Jaguar could be the leader.
I'd like to get at least another two civs out of Native North America, but am stumbling across an information void! Perhaps the Anasazi could be one civ; I have a city list containing 19 cities (could do with about a dozen more) from the Native America mod. In that mod, we called the chief "King Kiva" - although this was not historically correct AFAIK. Any ideas on any further info?
The Iroquois could fit into the timeframe, but Hiawatha is a couple of hundred years too late - anyone know of any older chiefs?
I know about the Hopewell culture, the Adena culture and the Mississipian culture, etc, but there's no specific information about chief names, city names and the like. If anyone can supply this information, I'd be really delighted .

Mali
I've decided to take Mali out of the mod and keep Ghana. This still leaves five African civs. Preferably, I'd like to use that space for another Native American civ, but I'm struggling for info for that culture group - see above.
At the moment, I'm considering using that space to bring back the Visigoths .

Tech update
I'm working on the first era tech tree. This will extend as far as Bronze Working and Weaving - in fact the first "line" of advances in the original Anno Domini second era. Road building is out, as it really seems to have an adverse effect on the game not to have this from the start after playtesting; though I might keep it so that "Woodworking" or an advance learnable straight away leads to building workers. Trade will be in era one and will have a culturally-linked advance after it, which discovers a civ-specific luxury and allows a building to harvest/utilise that luxury. There will be a trait-specific advance available after Masonry, which leads to a small wonder. There will be an early Religious-specific advance available after "belief system," leading to buildings with slightly different advantages. There will be two culturally specific techs towards the end as well - one as the end of the ancient-era military line-up, the other being a form of government; again, this will produce governments that are slightly different, but balanced; I might go sub-cultural for this.

 

[Xyth]

This mod is sounding more and more exciting all the time!

I would suggest using the Firaxis Li Minh (is that right?) LH rather than Mao. For a start he's not dressed like a European.

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but are flavour advances possible with vanilla civ or only C3C? If so can anyone point me to a tutorial?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thanks for the comments Xyth! I see what you mean about the other Fireaxis leaderhead. It had some issues that were fixed by someone on this forum. My policy is though, any leaderheads that need to be added (as the other Leaderhead didn't come with most versions of Civ3) will be made by me. I might do a leaderhead similar to the one you mentioned . How about using Wang Kon?

The tech tree flavouring might be possible with Vanilla Civ 3, but I'm not sure. The tutorial is here.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Here's the basic draft of the ancient era tech tree. I've drawn the arrows in by hand; they'll be done properly soon. There are a lot of light bulbs where the tech picture goes because I need to put those graphics into the game yet. There are a lot of blank spaces because I haven't assigned things to the techs...just yet.

However, here's a brief rundown of what I plan each tech to do:

Alphabet: Allows raft - exploratory sea vessel that cannot carry any units. 2 movement per turn.
Animal domestication: Allows cows to be visible; can build a dairy farm if cows are within the city limits and this works like a granary, but doesn't cost anything to maintain.
Archery: Allows archer - Att 3 Def 2 Mov 1
Bronze Working: Allows spearman - Att 1 Def 3 Mov 1
Ceremonial burial: Burial mound (+1 culture) can be built.
Code of laws: Allows courthouse improvement.
Farming: Allows wheat to be visible; can build a wheat farm if wheat is within the city limits and this works like a granary, but doesn't cost anything to maintain.
Hunting: Allows furs and game to become visible and a hunter's lodge to be built if game is within the city limits. The hunter's lodge works like a granary, but doesn't cost anything to maintain.
Irrigation: Worker can irrigate.
Masonry: Allows walls to be built.
Mining: Worker can mine.
Monarchy: Allows monarchy government and Hanging Gardens (+3 happiness in city it's built in, +1 happiness in all other cities).
Mysticism: Shrine (or other basic religious improvement) can be built (+1 happiness); incense is visible.
Myth: A small wonder, which works like Heroic epic, increasing chance of leader appearance.
Pottery: Allows granary to be built.
Primitive weaponry: Can build a unit that has Att 2 Def 1 Mov 1.
Road building: Worker can build roads.
Stone working: Can build a unit that has Att 1 Def 2 Mov 1.
Tech A: Culturally-flavoured tech leading to unit that is Att 2 Def 2 Mov 2.
Tech B: Trait-flavoured tech leading to small wonder (eg lighthouse for Seafaring civs).
Tech C: Culturally-flavoured tech leading to government type + building akin to Forgotten Palace.
Tech D: Religiously-flavoured tech leading to Religious building. Effects may vary dependent on the religion.
Tech E: Sub-culturally-flavoured tech leading to seeing a new luxury on the map and having a building that needs it and reaps advantages from it - but this can depend on the resource - e.g. Mediterranean civs can see wine luxury on the map, build vineyards (if wine within city limits) with +1 happiness effect; Asian civs can see silks on the map, build silk trader (if silk within city limits) with +50% tax bonus.
Toolworking: Workers can be built.
Trade: Allows bazaar to be built (+50% tax output); curragh can be built - it has 3 moves per turn and can carry one unit.
Warrior code: Allows barracks.
Writing: A school or other basic scientific improvement can be built (+50% science output).

What do you think?

Also, I had an idea of having an equivalent to the space race: build parts of a sailing vessel destined for "the New World?" - even though technically we're including civs from what we called the New World. Your thoughts?? It would help bring a natural conclusion to the game rather than it stopping in around 1200AD for no apparent reason .

 

[Plotinus]

Looks pretty good. What's the rationale for a defensive unit with Stone Working, though?

I like the idea of a New World-finding ship. However, I don't know what's involved in rejigging the Space Race: is it possible to change the Space Ship graphics?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Looks pretty good. What's the rationale for a defensive unit with Stone Working, though?

There's no real rationale; it's just that it comes at the right time in the tech tree and I didn't have anything for Stone Working....I've seen other mods attach a defensive unit to Stone Working and thought "why not?" However, as my first attacking unit will be a slinger, I could maybe fix that in with Stone Working and swap the defensive unit to Primitive Weaponry.

I like the idea of a New World-finding ship. However, I don't know what's involved in rejigging the Space Race: is it possible to change the Space Ship graphics?

It's possible to change the graphics for the Space Ship, I'm sure. All the graphic files are in Art/SpaceShip - so no surprises there . I would like to work out how to do bik files, so I could provide a brief alternative movie - it would look daft having the chap in the Space Ship with the countdown sequence....

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Here's a look at how Ghana's shaping up; I've used the model originally intended for the Nok. You've seen the image to the left, intended for the first two eras; on the right is obviously intended for the latter two eras. It's Dinga Cisse. Headgear prop by Kinboat (thanks !). I believe the background for the latter era head will be unpopular; animals in the background are seldom liked by forum members .

Please post any comments you might have .

 

[GRM7584]

Trade: Allows bazaar to be built (+50% tax output); curragh can be built - it has 3 moves per turn and can carry one unit.

Also, I had an idea of having an equivalent to the space race: build parts of a sailing vessel destined for "the New World?" - even though technically we're including civs from what we called the New World. Your thoughts?? It would help bring a natural conclusion to the game rather than it stopping in around 1200AD for no apparent reason .

Having a naval unit that can only carry 1 ground unit can give the player a bit of an advantage over the computer, as the AI can only send seaborne settlers out if it has a naval transport with enough room for 2 units, whereas the player can either send them out alone or send a second ship with a defensive unit.

Why a race to the New World? the Vikings have "been there" 200 years before the end of the game, and Europeans won't make it for another 300 years from the end of the mod. Of course there are also theories of the Irish, Phoenicians, Romans, Chinese, etc. making it there well before 1200. It might make more sense to have a bit more of an 'abstract' spaceship; After all, you can "Build" universal suffrage in the epic game. The best thing to do is figure out who "won", could have "won", or might have "won", at or around 1200 AD historically. 10 Crusades or Crusade related dealies (Holy Wars, for genericification)? First 10 universities? I don't really know how you'd go about creating a logical space race for the period, as I'm not a historian, nor a reliable source of historical information. Maybe the New World voyage actually makes more sense than any of that.

Also, for the units: you could just make them both available with primitive weapons. Stone Working should have a nice wonder or improvement anyhow, which would offset the lack of unit.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Having a naval unit that can only carry 1 ground unit can give the player a bit of an advantage over the computer, as the AI can only send seaborne settlers out if it has a naval transport with enough room for 2 units, whereas the player can either send them out alone or send a second ship with a defensive unit.

I didn't realise that. Perhaps I could make it carry 2 ground units, but only have 2 movement instead of 3?

Why a race to the New World? the Vikings have "been there" 200 years before the end of the game, and Europeans won't make it for another 300 years from the end of the mod. Of course there are also theories of the Irish, Phoenicians, Romans, Chinese, etc. making it there well before 1200.

I just feel it makes sense given the timeframe. As we're all of different capabilities in terms of actually playing the game, there'll be people that finish the mod with plenty of time to spare, emulating the Vikings et al.

Also, for the units: you could just make them both available with primitive weapons. Stone Working should have a nice wonder or improvement anyhow, which would offset the lack of unit.

That's not a bad idea; I may implement that. My thinking was to have the units available separately so that the player had to make a choice whether to go for defensive or attacking units first.

Thanks for the comments !!