Another What If

[TheLastOne36]

Ok Let's say Prussia was giving Poland some hard time such as giving threat etc. And Poland decides to Conquer Prussia successfully. What would happen afterwards?

There would be no Prussia to unite Germany, there would be no WW2, There would be tons of mini little states like Bavaria and Saxony in Germany.

so my question is, how this would effect the world? Napoleonic wars end out differently? Or maybe some kind of other war would be started in Europe? discuss.

 

[Thorbal]

There would be no Prussia to unite Germany, there would be no WW2, There would be tons of mini little states like Bavaria and Saxony in Germany.

That would´ve been simply great - Kingdom of Hanover, hooray !
But I think that the German states would have united anyway, I´m thinking of 1848. I wish that they had been successful... a "small German" parliamentary solution ( I hope you know what I mean, I just don´t know the correct English term for "Kleindeutsche Lösung" ) without all that Prussian reactionism. Should have been interesting times.
But I believe the Balkan crisis for example would still get out of hand and the clash of the imperial ambitions of the European powers would certainly result in some conflicts, but perhaps not of WW proportions.

 

[Will9]

Without Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony, and Brandenburg would have done much of the uniting. Bavaria would have taken much of southern Germany, but Austria would have defeated Bavaria. Brandenburg would have defeated Saxony and Germany would have been split into Austria in the south and Brandenburg in North.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

I agree with Thorbal, the German states would have united but probably later and not as powerful, WWI would still have taken place but it would be a lesser conflict because Germany would probably not become an ally of Austria-hungary, and Poland, well they would be independent. Without Germany in WWI, other nations wouldn't have been brought in and warfare wouldn't be so great. Austria Hungary would have fallen much faster without the help of Germany, The ottomans would share the same fate as it did. Russia would gain more territory and another war probably WWII would happen due to Europe's reaction to a Russia advancing in eastern europe.

 

[Pannonius]

I think Germany would be united anyway, but under the Habsburg austrian rule.

 

[TheLastOne36]

That is why i said no WW2. WW1 would still happen, except without germany.

And Russia starting WW2 would be another scenerio. I'm not sure what would happen then.

 

[cybrxkhan]

if that happened, the world wouold be very different...

(i think i should make my what if thread soon... )

and Poland could have a good chance of being in Civ!

 

[Pangur Bán]

You mean Prussia or Brandenburg, or the whole of Brandenburg-Prussia? Don't think it would have made much difference if the Poles had kept Prussia, just helped increase Poland-Lithuania's internal discord. Poland was chiefly the victim of its geographical position ... the first in line for Russia, the latter having the advantage of being at the end of Europe and able to expand almost limitlessly to the east to increase its wealth and power, then use it on its western border. If Europe was a little shorter and Poland was on the edge of Europe, Poland would today be the biggest country on Earth. Anyways, as regards Germany, either Brandenburg or Austria or someone else could have reunited Germany, or giving nationalism more time, a united Germany being formed more by will than force. The idea of Germany in the age of nationalism much stronger than any German state.

 

[Adler17]

Indeed Prussia was dependent on Poland until the time of the Grand Elector. Only then it became an independent duchy. At this time Prussia was no arch foe for Poland. They were just neighbours. And since Brandenburg then had quarrels with France and Sweden there were no big quarrels with Poland.
Anyway without Prussia enlightment would have become a much less boost. And to say the Prussians were all militaristic is also not true. They were not more or less than the others. Well, to have a strong military was decisive when being surrounded by powers like France, Austria, Sweden, Poland, Saxony (the Saxon Elector was also king of Poland partially), Hannover and Russia. In that times a big army was vital.
Anyway, if Prussia was not belonging to Brandenburg, Brandenburg would not have been able to become a major power. Austria would rule Germany. Nappy would have lost, too. In the following time Austria would dominate the German Confederation but without antagonist. At a certain time Austria would try to keep Germany small in favour of her empire. That would have lead to a civil war. Eventually Germany would be united, but later. If the world wars happened, well, perhaps. But not in this kind.
However that could have happened only before the secularisation of the Teutonic order state. Thus we still have to keep in mind the Grand Elector and Frederic the Great as persons who were able to retake the duchy. Also if Saxony was still ruling Poland Prussia might have been a good compensation in the Polish partitions...

Adler

 

[aronnax]

Germany would be form after WW1, if Austria was to take over Germany, WW1 would have begun anyway and Austria would still lose the war and when the Empires are seperated into their ethinc groups, Germany would be formed. But I dont think it would have the power to start WW2

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

When would this have happened? After all, Poland ceased to be an independent nation by the end of the 18th Century.

 

[TheLastOne36]

I didn't read all the posts yet, but this hasn't have much to do with Poland.

I'm saying if Prussia is gone, how would the situation in Germany be?

And how would the world be today?

 

[TheLastOne36]

When would this have happened? After all, Poland ceased to be an independent nation by the end of the 18th Century.

1700 maybe? (add the orange to Poland, They split Poland and Lithuania for some reason.)

Poland would today be the biggest country on Earth.

Canada, USA China, Mexico, Brazil, India, Australia, Indoneysia?

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Well after the Russians overwhelmed the Lithuanians and Germany without the Prussians, the Poles would have to defend against Russian imperialism...

 

[TheLastOne36]

Then this would happen:

1. Poland Defeats Russia and gain some land. Nothing much.
2. Poland looses and losses some of the lithuanian lands.

but that's not the point. Both scenerio's end with no prussia and no unified germany.