I think if the Normans were just renamed to England, maybe that would make everyone feel better? Because it's definitely designed to be the England/Britain of the base game.
They could have added England, instead of Normandy, as an "Exploration Era" Civilization in the base game and leave Britain as a "Modern Era" Civilization for future DLCs. That way, there were only one Anglophone Civilization per era in the last two eras.Yeah it's a crazy decision not to have Britain in the base game. They hit every X in '4X', especially in the 19th and early 20th centuries on which the Modern Age is specifically based. The truth is that America is the Anglophone empire that should have been relegated to DLC, but Civ is an American game from an American perspective so that was never going to happen.
This is not necessarily criticism and also pure speculation, but looks like Civ 5, Civ 6, and Civ 7 each has a distinct "Ed Beach's choice" in the roster. It was Venice for 5, CdM for 6, and now Normans for 7. For better or worse.Theh could have added England, instead of Normandy, as an "Exploration Era" Civilization in the base game and leave Britain as a "Modern Era" Civilization for future DLCs. That way, there were only one Anglophone Civilization per era in the last two eras.
I guess the devs thought that the Normans were enough English representation. But, the thing is, even if a Norman dynasty ruled England, the Normans are still Normans, not English.
Really? I didn't know that. Interesting.This is not necessarily criticism and also pure speculation, but looks like Civ 5, Civ 6, and Civ 7 each has a distinct "Ed Beach's choice" in the roster. It was Venice for 5, CdM for 6, and now Normans for 7. For better or worse.
I think if the Normans were just renamed to England, maybe that would make everyone feel better? Because it's definitely designed to be the England/Britain of the base game.
Lundres (London), Haestings (Hastings), Wyncestre (Winchester) are all Norman cities. Domesday Book and Common law are civics which are associated with Norman England. It's certainly not full one or the other, but it's at least something.Not really, because the Normans are mainly the Duchy of Normandy + the White Tower, with their capital at Rouen, and their focus is on European land warfare. Given the theme of the Exploration Age, an Exploration England would be better off centering on navy, Early Empire, and overseas expansion similar to Spain.
They strike me more as the "generic medieval European civ". Hence why the game recommends Charlemagne to go with them.I think if the Normans were just renamed to England, maybe that would make everyone feel better? Because it's definitely designed to be the England/Britain of the base game.
One of the 'Tubers showed the transition to Normans at Exploration and the intro read by Christie literals says "Cross the Channel and seize the world..."Lundres (London), Haestings (Hastings), Wyncestre (Winchester) are all Norman cities. Domesday Book and Common law are civics which are associated with Norman England. It's certainly not full one or the other, but it's at least something.
Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred a proper Exploration Age England, but we'll just have to wait a little while for a proper British Empire in the Modern age.
Calling Winchester a Norman city just simply isn't true. It was one of the most important cities in Anglo-Saxon England and diminished in importance after the Norman conquest. I would say it is the epitome of what is not a Norman city in England.Lundres (London), Haestings (Hastings), Wyncestre (Winchester) are all Norman cities.
No, because the Norman bonuses do not represent England well enough. The motte-and-bailey is a generic medieval castle for the time and the best preserved mottes-and-baileys in France and England date back to the Normans.I think if the Normans were just renamed to England, maybe that would make everyone feel better? Because it's definitely designed to be the England/Britain of the base game.
They should have been more in line as an Exploration Viking Civ yeah. I like the design of the Norman Civ overall, but it definitely vibes more French than English to me, despite the City list and despite the associated wonder. Going for a blobbier Norman Civ than just Fra + Eng absolultely would have improved their validity in the game over medieval France and England as separate entitites.I’m actually more bothered that the Norman civ makes no reference to Sicily or Ireland, which were also significant Norman conquests during the Middle Ages. A real missed opportunity, as it would have cemented the Normans as a valid pick in their own right rather than just a half-baked England/France.
I think this issue can be very simple by summarizing like this: 31 Civs + 21 Leaders at 2025 vs 39 Civs + more Leaders at 2026.
I think the decision was made not only by devs, the finance team and 2K might are there too. They did a lots of things at the last dev stage of Civ 6 for free, so they need proper income from new title ASAP.
And I prefer this, because I just want that brand new title ASAP too. The Civ and Leader list itself is not even a problem for me. If the game system is solid enough to enjoy, I'll take that.
The Domesday Book is where so many towns and villages in England and Wales can trace their historical roots to. My town simply does not have any recorded history before the Normans (and with a game that features towns I think thats an important point).Domesday Book and common law are civics are associated with Norman England.
This is reductionist, they were a conquering elite, who in the span of a hundred years, made their irreplaceable mark on England and the Norman successorsThey were a conquering elite, not the civ itself.
London has been spotted as the Norman city “Lundres”. Whilst it is true that the Normans carried out a genocide in Northern England, this doesn’t change the irreplaceable mark they left on England even though the Normans and the Plantagenets as a whole were extremely oppressive towards the English. Also it wasn’t until the 1200s where an English king spoke English since the Norman conquest (And wasn’t until 1399 that an English king took an oath in English). In fact some of the Plantagenet rulers didn’t even rule from England at all and instead ruled from somewhere in France (especially during the Hundred Years’ War).The Normans carried out a genocide in northern England around York (its economic centre of the time) and spoke a completely different language with a different root. Where is London in this game? I have just seen Raptor's video on YT, they settled four cities; Rouen, Fécamp, Kaem (Caen), and Falaise. Is London supposed to be the 5th or 6th settlement? The financial capital of the world for hundreds of years.
The Chevaler is also not an English unit, but clearly the contemporanous name for French knights (chevaliers).